BreadOfLife ~ UNPROVEN CLAIMS..

[Taken]

Actually - you never even threw a pitch because you took ALL 3 verses out of context.

1 John 3:6, 9 is talking about living a life of sin.

Christians don't live a life of willful sin -

Can't help but roll my eyes.

You say:

1 John 3:6, 9 is talking about living a life of sin.

No it isn't.

1 John 3:6 is talking about a man who Abides IN God does NOT Sin.

1 John 3:9 is talking about a man born of God does not sin and cannot sin.

And NOTHING in 1 John 3:6 or 1 John 3:9 says ANYTHING about "Christians or WILLFUL" sin.

1 John 3:6
[6] Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

1 John 3:9
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Well, from MY PERSPECTIVE, -- Paul wrote that he has a "thorn in the flesh" which he asked GOD to remove three times, but GOD let Paul suffer with imperfections so that he would not become puffed up:

2 Cor. 12:5 5 On behalf of this man I will boast, but on my own behalf I will not boast, except of my weaknesses. 6 Though if I wish to boast, I shall not be a fool, for I shall be speaking the truth. But I refrain from it, so that no one may think more of me than he sees in me or hears from me. 7 And to keep me from being too elated by the abundance of revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan, to harass me, to keep me from being too elated. 8 Three times I besought the Lord about this, that it should leave me; 9 but he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” I will all the more gladly boast of my weaknesses, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.​

On this subject, it appears to me that @BreadOfLife IS CORRECT in his premise, and no matter how someone might attempt to parse repentance and forgiveness, each of us still have temptations and still sin regardless of being "born again".

Quote @Taken, Post #158:

I have said; I sin NO MORE. And Yes, that became effective, AFTER being born again.​

So unless someone has attained what GOD had already disallowed, no man can assert that he sins no more. And if he does, then he is certainly misguided/confused/doctrinally-misinformed/deluded/etc..


Bobby Jo

Perhaps you could give your definition of SIN.

Thanks,
Taken

 

[Bobby Jo]

Perhaps you could give your definition of SIN.

Thanks,
Taken

Simple. There's two types, -- commission and omission.

James 4:17 Whoever knows what is right to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.​

Do you admit that you sin? Apparently not.
Bobby Jo

 

[Taken]

Simple. There's two types, -- commission and omission.

James 4:17 Whoever knows what is right to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.​

Thanks BobbyJo ~

Could you elaborate beyond James 4:17 saying one who KNOWS what is RIGHT to do, and fails to DO what is RIGHT, would be a SIN for that person?

According to WHAT, would a person KNOW, what is RIGHT?

And HOW do YOU determine what a person KNOWS?

And HOW do YOU determine IF a person DOES what is RIGHT?

And HAVE YOU determined WHAT I KNOW?

And HAVE YOU determined I DID NOT DO, WHAT I KNOW is RIGHT?

And WHAT exactly is the THING that I KNOW that is RIGHT, and supposedly DID NOT DO?

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Simple. There's two types, -- commission and omission.

James 4:17 Whoever knows what is right to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.​

Do you admit that you sin? Apparently not.
Bobby Jo

Do you admit you know what is right, and do not DO what is right?

If so, Why do you DO what is not right?

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[brakelite]

What are you talking about?? This thread is about @Taken's obsession with ME.

You must be thinking of another thread . . .

Okay, maybe you had a late night and are a bit slow today. Let me elaborate. You said not long ago that the Catholic church uses scripture to uphold their doctrines.

WRONG.
Your last post simply solidifies how little you know about the Catholic faith.

You claim that we don't read Scripture to learn about doctrine - which is flat-out horse manure.
ALL Catholic doctrine is supported with Scriptural references.

It's blindingly clear that you've never cracked open a Catechism.

1. I said that your post reminds me of @Phoneman777 's original post, yes, in another thread, the church the papacy wants you to join... Remember that thread? So, find that thread then come back to me and explain again how all your doctrines are supported by scripture, because BoL, Phonemans post proves that claim to be hogwash.

 

[Taken]

Well, from MY PERSPECTIVE, -- Paul wrote that he has a "thorn in the flesh" which he asked GOD to remove three times, but GOD let Paul suffer with imperfections so that he would not become puffed up:

2 Cor. 12:5 5 On behalf of this man I will boast, but on my own behalf I will not boast, except of my weaknesses. 6 Though if I wish to boast, I shall not be a fool, for I shall be speaking the truth. But I refrain from it, so that no one may think more of me than he sees in me or hears from me. 7 And to keep me from being too elated by the abundance of revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan, to harass me, to keep me from being too elated. 8 Three times I besought the Lord about this, that it should leave me; 9 but he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” I will all the more gladly boast of my weaknesses, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.​

On this subject, it appears to me that @BreadOfLife IS CORRECT in his premise, and no matter how someone might attempt to parse repentance and forgiveness, each of us still have temptations and still sin regardless of being "born again".

Quote @Taken, Post #158:

I have said; I sin NO MORE. And Yes, that became effective, AFTER being born again.​

So unless someone has attained what GOD had already disallowed, no man can assert that he sins no more. And if he does, then he is certainly misguided/confused/doctrinally-misinformed/deluded/etc..


Bobby Jo

"IF" you are unaware...

BreadOfLife CLAIMED, FOR ME, that I said, I HAVE NO SIN...and referenced...1 John 1:8.

(1 John 1:8)
[8a] If we say that we have no sin,


Paraphrasing...
You asked BOL for his evidence.
BOL gave you an answer saying IN THE FUTURE he would give that information.

I have asked BOL repeatedly to PROVE ONE QUOTE OF ANYONE SAYING "they have no sin"...

Guess HOW MANY TIMES BOL has DONE the RIGHT THING, and PROVIDED ONE QUOTE OF "ANYONE", claiming, they have no sin ?...

ANSWER.... ZERO TIMES

POINT BEING ~

BOL, BY His SPEAKING FOR ME...made the CLAIM, THAT I said, "I HAVE no sin"...

BOL, NOT ONCE, in numerous post, provided ME SAYING ANY SUCH THING....

BUT HAS ALSO Repeatedly QUOTED...
1 John 1:8 b...

1 John 1:8 b
...we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

AND BASED ON WHAT BOL SAID "FOR ME," then SAYS "TO ME"...based on 1 John 1:8b,
That I AM deceived, and the Truth is not in me.

SO YOU DECIDE....WHERE has BOL ONCE quoted me SAYING, CLAIMING, TEACHING...
That "I HAVE NO SIN"?

HE CAN'T.....because it is a LIE!

He told YOU, "in the future", he would give you a reference to your question.

It's the future...
Why not ASK BOL, "IF" he claimed...
"I SAID, "I HAVE" no SIN.
And SEE "IF" he has "ONE QUOTE OF MY OWN WORDS, MAKING THAT CLAIM".

You quoted PAUL, who is speaking of his FRUSTRATION of "HAVING SIN" in his BODY.

Not committing SIN...but rather..Having SIN in his BODY.

Anyone with a ounce of Biblical Knowledge, KNOWS, a man NATURALLY BORN IN SIN, WILL "HAVE SIN" ...... SIN "IN" his NATURAL BODY (whether his BODY is physically ALIVE or physically DEAD).....
UNTIL the DAY, his body is RAISED IN GLORY.

I have been a DAILY student of the Bible for quite some time...and have NEVER made such a totally IGNORANT CLAIM, that I have no sin...

I am fully aware, MY Lord God has FORGIVEN ALL of my SINS.
I am fully aware, MY Lord God has COVERED ALL of my SINS.
I am fully aware, MY Lord God has COVERED ALL of my SINS, "IN ME", with HIS Spirit, which IS LIGHT.
I am fully aware, MY Lord God HIS LIGHT IS Supreme, and OVERTAKES, ALL DARKNESS of SIN.
I am Fully aware, MY Lord God NO LONGER SEES the Darkness of Sin, "IN MY BODY".
I am fully aware, MY Lord God Remembers MY SINS NO MORE.
I am fully aware, MY Lord God has GIVEN ME HIS SEED, and has REBORN ME, "OF HIM"..

Perhaps you are like BOL, and believes, Gods SEED "BIRTHS" SINNERS?

Only you can answer that.

Paul's frustration was KNOWING SIN WAS STILL IN HIM and would be Until his body was glorified...
Paul was asking for the Lord to REMOVE his SIN FROM his BODY...

The LESSON to be Learned is; We all have to CARRY the SIN OF our FLESH, IN OUR Flesh, until our bodies are glorifed.

Like BOL, one can DWELL on their body having SIN IN IT....

Or Like me, one can BE assured and thankful My Lord God has COVERED my SIN, IN MY BODY, with HIS LIGHT, and He Remembers my sin no more, AND already has a DAY of HIS CHOOSING, to glorify my BODY, that with patience, I WAIT FOR.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Bobby Jo]

Do you admit you know what is right, and do not DO what is right?

If so, Why do you DO what is not right?

Platitudes instead of action. Arguments instead of obedience. Religion instead of relation. -- That'll make GOD happy!

Whew, no wonder @BreadOfLife was assailed. I guess I'm next ... because I'M NOT WITHOUT SIN like @Taken.

So the only thing that can solve this dilemma is for @Taken to clarify/correct his previous position that he does not sin, -- BECAUSE WE ALL still SIN! And then we repent!

Bobby Jo

 

[Taken]

Platitudes instead of action. Arguments instead of obedience. Religion instead of relation. -- That'll make GOD happy!

Whew, no wonder @BreadOfLife was assailed. I guess I'm next ... because I'M NOT WITHOUT SIN like @Taken.

Good grief...when Did I say I am without sin, for you to make that claim for me?

Are you Like BOL and not KNOW Because you Are Naturally Born In Sin...That Flesh BODY of yours HAS SIN IN it...UNTIL that Body Is Glorified......?

Did ANY say they Have No SIN? Uh No.

Did anyone Claim their body has Been Glorified? Uh No.

Do Not Know, like BOL, the Differece between, Having SIN in YOU natural Flesh...
And COMMITTING SIN?

Who exactly AND SPECIFICALLY CAN You COMMIT SIN AGAINST?

A living animal, living people, living plants, God??

So the only thing that can solve this dilemma is for @Taken to clarify/correct his previous position that he does not sin, -- BECAUSE WE ALL still SIN! And then we repent!

Correct my position...To Yours?

Pretty...Why would I do that?

You don't even notice the difference between having SIN in your living flesh Body And Committing Sin...Against something...that YOU have never explained...

Who are you committing Sin Against...?
What are examples of this Sin, that you do, and that you have declared All do?
And who do you REPENT TO?

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Bobby Jo]

Good grief...when Did I say I am without sin, ...

Quote @Taken, Post #158:

I have said; I sin NO MORE. And Yes, that became effective, AFTER being born again.​

Did you want to clarify/retract your statement? I'd like to resolve this apparent FALSE doctrine where a person is "born again", and sins "NO MORE".

Quote @Taken, Post #158:

You don't even notice the difference between having SIN in your living flesh Body And Committing Sin ...​

Your "I sin NO MORE" assertion is in reference to the action of "committing sin". -- Is English a "second language" in that what you say is NOT what you actually mean?

parse
intransitive verb

• To break (a sentence) down into its component parts of speech with an explanation of the form, function, and syntactical relationship of each part.
• To describe (a word) by stating its part of speech, form, and syntactical relationships in a sentence.

Bobby Jo


To All,
It appears that @Taken is simply playing word games for who knows whatever entertainment/sport/amusement/diversion/occupation/boredom/dishonesty/prank/ ...

Bobby Jo

 

[Taken]

Bobby Jo

To All,
It appears that @Taken is simply playing word games for who knows whatever entertainment/sport/amusement/diversion/occupation/boredom/dishonesty/prank/ ...

Bobby Jo

Since you think explaining the DIFFERENCE in what things MEAN, is game playing;
why don't YOU explain the DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ;
HAVING SIN
And
COMMITTING SIN??

I can KNOW YOU 'HAVE' SIN.
And
YOU "COMMIT" SIN.
And
I AM NOT LIKE YOU.
And MUCH as BOL or YOU, try to dictate what APPLIES TO ME....
The Word of God says differently.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

​

Did you want to clarify/retract your statement? I'd like to resolve this apparent FALSE doctrine where a person is "born again", and sins "NO MORE".

​

Bobby Jo

When I was BORN AGAIN, I was BORN OF God...HIS SEED...and as I said SINCE THAT TIME, I SIN NO MORE.

Sorry you find Scripture FALSE.

1 John 3;
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[BreadOfLife]

Yes...what you've just stated is what I hear from my friends that are upset about the change.

If it's ONLY a discipline, why have about 10 bishops from Germany (I believe) written to the current Pope asking him to CLARIFY the little asterisk down at the bottom of item no. 8 of Amoris Laetitia?

Also, you must surely know that a doctrine is not a dogma.
I'm speaking about doctrine here...which is simply THE TEACHING of a church.

And for anyone that would like even more information as to what a doctrine is, they could find it here.

Doctrine Definition and Meaning - Bible Dictionary

Careful - your ignorance is showing again . . .

Doctrine and discipline are NOT the same thing nor do they carry the same weight.
A good example of a discipline is abstaining from meat on Fridays - or having an unmarried priesthood.

Disciplines can and DO change - such as the above mentioned cases. Catholic doctrine, however - NEVER changes. Giving communion to divorced people is a matter of discipline - NOT doctrine. Anyway - the discipline REMAINS in most cases. The change only applies in certain circumstances.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Okay, maybe you had a late night and are a bit slow today. Let me elaborate. You said not long ago that the Catholic church uses scripture to uphold their doctrines.

That was on another thread. Stick to the conversation on the thread at hand.
Perhaps that "late night" was your issue . . .

1. I said that your post reminds me of @Phoneman777 's original post, yes, in another thread, the church the papacy wants you to join... Remember that thread? So, find that thread then come back to me and explain again how all your doctrines are supported by scripture, because BoL, Phonemans post proves that claim to be hogwash.

No - how about discussing that matter on that thread instead of hijacking this one??

 

[BreadOfLife]

You show your lack of knowledge again.

Isaiah 42:19
"Who is blind but My servant, Or deaf as My messenger whom I send? Who is blind as he who is perfect, And blind as the Lord’s servant?"

Paul and John walked the line between the dead and the living. They spoke to both and even included themselves, and their words include things that only apply to the dead in Christ and others that only apply to the living in Christ. As Paul explained "I have become all things to all men, that I might by all means save some."

Thus, it is now wrong for you to read their writings and not perceive the difference between the dead and the living, and accuse the spiritual children of God using one word against another. You commit an offence which Christ warned about.

That is about the mose asinine and perverted rendering of Scripture I've ever heard.

Paul and John included themselves in talking about stumbling in sin because they were sinners like the rest of us. They understood their human limitations and strove to live sinless lives, realizing that sometimes they fell short.

YOUR problem is spiritual arrogance . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

I have said; Thee Lord God has forgiven ALL of my Sins.

I have said; Thee Lord God has Forgiven ALL of my Sins, Covered them, and Remembers them no more.

I have said; I sin NO MORE. And Yes, that became effective, AFTER being born again.

Glory to God,
Taken

a) So - YOU claim that God has forgiven your sins - and in the same breath, you say that He has merely "covered" them.
LIE #1.
Either He has covered your sins or he has forgiven them, To forgive means to "remit" and to "release".

b) You have states that you sin no more.

With the above statements, YOU are claiming to have NO sin in your life.
To deny this is to LIE, which is a sin.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Can't help but roll my eyes.
You say:

No it isn't.
1 John 3:6 is talking about a man who Abides IN God does NOT Sin.
1 John 3:9 is talking about a man born of God does not sin and cannot sin.
And NOTHING in 1 John 3:6 or 1 John 3:9 says ANYTHING about "Christians or WILLFUL" sin.
1 John 3:6
[6] Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

1 John 3:9
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Glory to God,
Taken

And your confusion is cause by your cherry-picking of Scriptyure.

In order for your false doctrine to be true, you would have to erase the Book of Romans and 1 John.

Romans 7 is ALL about Paul explaining his struggle with sin.
1 John talks about how JOHN and his readers sin and how they ADMIT their shortcomings.

You would also have to edit the Epistle of James because HE tells his born again readers to confess their SINS to one another (James 5:16).

YOU and your buddy @ScottA should pray for God's mercy on your arrogant souls for claiming you have no sin . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

You display absolute ignorance of understanding what things mean, then make up unGodly accusations toward others because of your utter lack of wisdom.

Glory to God,
Taken

And this is an empty, impotent response.
I display "ignorance" to YOU simply because I don't buy into your perversion of Scripture that you don't sin..

This has never been a teaching of the historic Christian faith - and NONE of your Protestant Fathers taught this nonsense. Sooooooo, why do YOU and @ScottA espouse this heresy??

 

[brakelite]

That was on another thread. Stick to the conversation on the thread at hand.
Perhaps that "late night" was your issue . . .
No - how about discussing that matter on that thread instead of hijacking this one??

Hahaha. Hijacking this thread? YOU , IN THIS THREAD, WERE THE ONE WHO CLAIMED YOUR CHURCH HAD SCRIPTURAL BACKING FOR ALL YOUR DOCTRINES!!!! Now that I challenge that assertion you scramble for cover??? Of course you do, because, you are proved wrong... Not by me, but by your own church.

 

[ScottA]

That is about the mose asinine and perverted rendering of Scripture I've ever heard.

Paul and John included themselves in talking about stumbling in sin because they were sinners like the rest of us. They understood their human limitations and strove to live sinless lives, realizing that sometimes they fell short.

YOUR problem is spiritual arrogance . . .

Your problem is you don't know better than to mix up "today and tomorrow, and the third day."

But, no, "perfect" is not arrogance...it's Christ.

Go figure, you think that all perverts your little religion.