All the ELECT please stand up

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GodsGrace

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On this very point, I posted on a forum about free will meaning we are not robots.
A member decided he did believe in these terms he was a robot but it was glorious programming.

That is fatalism and determinism in it true form. Not surprising love does not bloom as what choice is
there is all you choice are not your own, if you are angry, God intended this, if not, God intended this.
It abdicates responsibility for sin and responsibility for good. How is it then possible to suggest one
needs to sow to the Spirit and not the flesh.
Very true.
Kind of like Islam...
God decides all...so what will be will be; no responsibility.

Good point.
 

CNKW3

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You confusion is evident in your first paragraph where you wrote "it's not specific individuals".

You deny the words of Lord Jesus where He says "For many are called, but few [are] chosen." (Matthew 22:14)! That is about specific individuals!
i don’t deny. It’s a true statement. But NOWHERE does he say this is about certain specific individuals like you. Many are called by the gospel but few will accept and obey thereby becoming one of the elect. Jesus himself said the road and gate to eternal life is narrow and FEW will go in.

You deny the words of Lord Jesus where He says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16)! That is about specific individuals!
John 15 was spoken directly to the apostles. It was not meant for all mankind.

You add to the Word of God by trying to impose your "work"/purification, which is not God's work but your work and the Apostle Paul said it is not by work of man (Ephesians 2:8-9). It is evil to add to the Word of God.
God is coming to punish who? Who is God going to punish? 2 thes 1:7,8 tells us. Do you care to answer?
Romans 6:17-18 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Who was made free from sin? Those who obeyed from the heart!!

EXAMINING 1 PETER 1:21-22

There is a problem with the English translation of 1 Peter 1:21-22 that you cited because the Greek does not agree with it. Here are the direct sequence of words for this passage written by the Apostle Peter "The-ones through Him believing into God the One rousing Him out of-dead-ones and esteem to Him giving as-besides the belief of-you and expectation to-be into God the souls of you having-purified in the obedience of-the truth through Spirit into brotherly-affection unfeigned out of-clean heart one-another love-you earnestly" (1 Peter 1:21-22).

The Apostle Peter wrote "God the souls of you having-purified in the obedience of-the truth" - this is direct from the Greek! Clearly, the Apostle Peter attributed the purification of the souls of the elect to God.
Young’s literal translation disagrees....Your souls having purified in the obedience of the truth through the Spirit
Souls are purified through obedience.

Mounce disagrees....Since you have purified · your souls by · obedience to the truth
Souls are purified through obedience.
These are direct translations from the Greek. Do you have some scholarship we all need to know about?

The Apostle Peter is not going to disagree with the words of Lord Jesus when He said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16); therefore, your interpretation of 1 Peter is clearly in error.
He didn’t disagree. The apostle Peter was there and fully understood that the promise was made directly to them. Just like acts 1:4,8

God opens eyes and ears, purifies the souls of the elect, and this is done by the Word of God! It's all God's, all glory to God.
of course he does. When one obeys the conditions laid out in his word of truth they will be purified by the blood.

The elect are born again, and only God causes a person to be born again (John 3:3 and John 3:5).

THERE IS NO LEVEL THAT A PERSON CAN CHOOSE LORD JESUS BECAUSE HE SAID “YOU DID NOT CHOOSE ME, BUT I CHOSE YOU" (JOHN 15:16) – JESUS, BEING GOD, DID NOT PROVIDE ANY EXCEPTION FOR CHOOSING TOWARD JESUS.
One has to obey in order to be born again. If not then everyone would be born again and Jn 3:5 would make no sense.
 

CNKW3

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By every Word from God in the Scriptures, e.g., "When they examined me (for every cause of death was found in me), I was constrained to appeal unto God that I had nothing in defence. For this cause therefore the Lord called for me, to see me, and to speak to me, because that for The Hope of Israel God bound me with this chain of faith which we know everywhere is spoken against." You cannot find it in your Bible? No, you cannot, though it's there, written, for me!
Why are you trying to quote Paul (poorly) adding words to the passage and using it as if it applies to you? You didn’t call for the jewish leaders! You didn’t appeal to Caesar! God never called you to speak to you! This is nonsense.
I know you can’t find what you believe in the Bible. That’s a fact.
But I knew you wouldn’t be able to show me anything to prove you are one of the elect.
 

FollowHim

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Very true.
Kind of like Islam...
God decides all...so what will be will be; no responsibility.

Good point.

Exactly. I was trying to share with some muslims about that God gave us emotions to respond
appropriately to and channel things in the right way. They rejected this idea outright. If you felt
a particular way that was Gods will, so it was wrong to deal with another way. Funnily they also
contradicted this idea, because you choose to do Hallel permited things and avoid Haram not
permitted things, therefore exersing free will separate from Gods will.

The absurdity is if one has a moral code, free will and choice are there and guilt is taken
as a given. For me this is a classic situation where a belief system takes over someones perspective
and abuses it, when in truth the opposite should be taking place. The belief system should be changed
to reflect reality, not change how you see reality to reflect the belief system because that way is madness.
 
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GerhardEbersoehn

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Who said I had troubles in my prayer life?
Not me.

I know what I asked you is a very difficult question to answer when one believes in calvinist theology.

This is because, for YOU, there is no answer.

For ME, there is since I believe in what the bible teaches.
But please do continue to NOT USE YOUR COMMON SENSE....
since this is the ONLY way one could possibly believe in calvinism.

Perhaps you could ask your pastor HOW YOU COULD ANSWER MY QUESTION?
Let's see if HE knows....

You are far, far, too superior to and for, me. Give me a break, I very seldom enjoy the privilege of a moment of indulgence, especially when it's in spirituality.
 

GerhardEbersoehn

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Because he has revealed WHO the chosen are. And it’s not specific individuals. It is everybody who has obeyed the conditions of election. Read 1 Peter 1.
1 Peter 1:1-2 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
He is writing to the ELECT. They are the elect through “obedience, sanctification, and the blood”. Not because God has just randomly picked out some people.

1 Peter 1:22-23 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
The ELECT have purified their souls through obedience to the the truth. This IS NOT God hand picking individuals he likes.

1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
The elect are those who have been born again. And we know that process comes through water and the Spirit. Jn 3:5. Those who have “purified theirs souls through obeying the truth through the Spirit.

1 Peter 1:14-15 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
The ELECT are those who have been called. How are we called? Through the gospel. 2 thes 2:13,14

1 Peter 1:18-19 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
The ELECT have been redeemed by the blood of Christ. We know through Eph 1 that redemption is found “in Christ”.eph 1:7 The ELECT are those who are “in Christ”. Gal 3:26-29

Have you been born of water and the Spirit? Have you obeyed the truth of the gospel? Are you “in Christ”. The Bible teaches one is “baptized into Christ”. Rom 6 and Gal 3, 1 Cor 12..
This is who the ELECT are.

If it were not that and for God who <<picked whom He liked>>, I KNOW I would and DO not have an ice ball's hope in hell to have become one of His CHOSEN, saved ones. O the noise the noisome make! If God had not been merciful to ME, A SINNER, I would have given up faith, hope, and love for anyone claiming salvation, first of all for salvation of myself, but for anyone else ... for everyone in this ugly discourse included, JUST SO SURELY.
 

GodsGrace

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If it were not that and for God who <<picked whom He liked>>, I KNOW I would and DO not have an ice ball's hope in hell to have become one of His CHOSEN, saved ones. O the noise the noisome make! If God had not been merciful to ME, A SINNER, I would have given up faith, hope, and love for anyone claiming salvation, first of all for salvation of myself, but for anyone else ... for everyone in this ugly discourse included, JUST SO SURELY.
Here's a moment of spiritual joy for you:

You, and every other human, has the opportunity to become one of the chosen.
God is merciful to every single human alive...He loves His utmost creation...man.
no use to give up faith, hope and love....

All one has to do is believe on Jesus for their salvation.
Just like the jailer said in Acts 16:30-31

John 3:16 tells us that WHOEVER may come to God and become saved.

Jesus gave the Great Commission in Mathew 28:19 to the Apostles.
He told them to go into all the world and preach and teach and baptize.

Why would Jesus do this if He knew GOD picked who will be saved?
There would have been no reason to.

You can be joyful that God loves all and would want for all to be saved,,,
BUT not all accept His condition: BELIEF and OBEDIENCE.

Easy as 1, 2, 3.

Jesus said He would draw ALL men to Himself.
John 12:32

God revealed Himself to man from the beginning of time...
so that NO ONE would be WITHOUT EXCUSE...
Romans 1:19-20

Being without excuse means that EACH PERSON had/has the chance to accept God or deny God.

Glory to God Only.
 

CNKW3

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If it were not that and for God who <<picked whom He liked>>, I KNOW I would and DO not have an ice ball's hope in hell to have become one of His CHOSEN, saved ones. O the noise the noisome make! If God had not been merciful to ME, A SINNER, I would have given up faith, hope, and love for anyone claiming salvation, first of all for salvation of myself, but for anyone else ... for everyone in this ugly discourse included, JUST SO SURELY.
I’ll ask again....what did you do to become one of the elect? If it’s “nothing” (which is what it seems you are saying) then you are not one of the elect.
 
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Kermos

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Who is God going to punish? The one who does not OBEY. 2 thes 1: 7,8
Who OBEYS? Whosoever! The individual. God doesn’t make a person believe and obey.
We believers obey God living by the faith of the Son of God (Galatians 2:20) thus we obey by the control of the love of Christ Jesus Who is the Power of God (2 Corinthians 5:14, 1 Corinthians 1:24). All this by God's Grace for God's Glory!

Paul's recorded words in 2 Thessalonians 1:7-8 are in agreement with what I've cited above.

BELIEF DEFINED BY LORD JESUS: Lord Jesus said belief in Jesus whom the Father sent is the work of God (John 6:29).

God makes a person believe and obey, and it is joy for we believers in our Lord Jesus Christ who has come in the flesh and is now in glory at the right hand of the Father in heaven! We redeemed have been released from all bondage, all work, for any good work is the work of God - fruit of the Spirit!

We vessels of mercy rest in Christ!

Your confusion is that you deny the Power of God. God know the individuals to be saved from the foundation of the world, for it is written "written in the book of life from the foundation of the world" (Revelation 17:8) and "nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life" (Revelation 21:27).

THERE IS NO LEVEL THAT A PERSON CAN CHOOSE LORD JESUS BECAUSE HE SAID "YOU DID NOT CHOOSE ME, BUT I CHOSE YOU" (JOHN 15:16) - JESUS, BEING GOD, DID NOT PROVIDE ANY EXCEPTION FOR CHOOSING TOWARD JESUS.
 

Kermos

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GOD REVEALS HIMSELF TO US.

AND WE DECIDE WHETHER OR NOT TO CHOOSE HIM.

Romans 1:19-20
John 3:26
You and your freewillian colleagues are in error about who God is. God is sovereignly in control of specifically who the elect are even knowing in advance even having the elect walk in good fruit. The elect are the chosen of God.

BELIEF DEFINED BY LORD JESUS: Lord Jesus said belief in Jesus whom the Father sent is the work of God (John 6:29).

The ones who come to Lord Jesus HEAR Jesus because Jesus opened the our formerly blind eyes (John 9) and our formerly deaf ears (Matthew 11:5) and He breaths Life into the dead (John 14:6, Matthew 11:5). God at work in people is why people come to Jesus.

Matthew 11:5 contains part of Jesus' response to John the baptist's disciples. I mention this due to the relation to John 3:26 which you mentioned.

Romans 1:19-20 has nothing to do with "choosing" Jesus. That is more of your deceit.

THERE IS NO LEVEL THAT A PERSON CAN CHOOSE LORD JESUS BECAUSE HE SAID "YOU DID NOT CHOOSE ME, BUT I CHOSE YOU" (JOHN 15:16) - JESUS, BEING GOD, DID NOT PROVIDE ANY EXCEPTION FOR CHOOSING TOWARD JESUS.
 

Kermos

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That WHOEVER believes in HIM,,,,will be saved.
WHOEVER
NOT
Those that God chooses.
Wrong again, GodsGrace, the whoever is not flippant, promiscuous. The "who ever" (the Greek shows it as two words) is specific to we that have the work of God which is to believe in Jesus Whom the Father has sent - God's work in us. According to you, you do not have the work of God, that is faith, in you because you say you "chose" Jesus, Lord and God.

THERE IS NO LEVEL THAT A PERSON CAN CHOOSE LORD JESUS BECAUSE HE SAID "YOU DID NOT CHOOSE ME, BUT I CHOSE YOU" (JOHN 15:16) - JESUS, BEING GOD, DID NOT PROVIDE ANY EXCEPTION FOR CHOOSING TOWARD JESUS.
 

Kermos

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So, Jesus was being BOSSY to God Father and TELLING HIM WHAT TO DO?

Your explanation falls VERY SHORT of any meaning.
You are SO insulting to God with your veiled question's attempt to pulverize the meaning of Jesus' words - it is putrid.

The Holy Spirit is required to understand what Lord Jesus was saying as He taught we believers to pray.

You say you deliver yourself by your choice toward your false god - that false god cannot be Lord Jesus because He said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).

Lord Jesus says that God delivers (Matthew 6:13).

THERE IS NO LEVEL THAT A PERSON CAN CHOOSE LORD JESUS BECAUSE HE SAID "YOU DID NOT CHOOSE ME, BUT I CHOSE YOU" (JOHN 15:16) - JESUS, BEING GOD, DID NOT PROVIDE ANY EXCEPTION FOR CHOOSING TOWARD JESUS.
 

GodsGrace

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You are SO insulting to God with your veiled question's attempt to pulverize the meaning of Jesus' words - it is putrid.

The Holy Spirit is required to understand what Lord Jesus was saying as He taught we believers to pray.

You say you deliver yourself by your choice toward your false god - that false god cannot be Lord Jesus because He said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).

Lord Jesus says that God delivers (Matthew 6:13).

THERE IS NO LEVEL THAT A PERSON CAN CHOOSE LORD JESUS BECAUSE HE SAID "YOU DID NOT CHOOSE ME, BUT I CHOSE YOU" (JOHN 15:16) - JESUS, BEING GOD, DID NOT PROVIDE ANY EXCEPTION FOR CHOOSING TOWARD JESUS.
You're a very insulting person.
Even to God.
 

farouk

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John answers this very point in his letter

14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. Anyone who does not love remains in death.
15 Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life in him.
16 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers.
1 John 3

John is so concerned people get discouraged about their election in the people of God he tells them, rejoice, you know Jesus
because you love His people, have love flowing from you and you obey His commands

2 This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands.
3 This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,
4 for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith.
1 John 5

Rest assured if you love His people you love Jesus, for in His people is He revealed.
Great verses there!

I do love John's First Epistle.
 

GerhardEbersoehn

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Guess you don't realize that I was speaking to a calvinist.
But your post is a good post because I've noticed that most (not all ) calvinists seem to have very little love in them.

I do wonder why. Maybe because they have the sin of pride being that they are the CHOSEN FEW?

My point was that if we choose God, we can know we are saved.

If God does the choosing,,,how can anyone know they are saved?
They cannot...and this is a problem with calvinism..the not knowing.

Thanks for the post, it's a gem. I'm saving it, be sure. I just love it! Boy I do. Man o man no man (or woman) CAN HELP TO BETRAY AND EXPOSE his or her true inner SELF, but deny self or keep it secret, never! Not even you could or can, dear <God's Grace> se voet!
 

Kermos

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Woe to you free willians being like Uzzah who reached out irreverently for the Ark of the Covenant followed by God striking Uzzah down dead (2 Samuel 6:6-7), you free willians that reached out irreverently for/claim to choose Lord Jesus Who said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16), woe to you free willians that practice the sin of claiming the opposite of the Lord Jesus' words!

Prior posted 'woe to you free willers' (in this thread)

Proofs of God's Sovereignty In Man's Salvation and Freewiller's Distortions of Scripture includng the Lord Jesus' words of "you did not choose me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) (in this thread)
 
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GerhardEbersoehn

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Easy as 1, 2, 3.

Jesus said He would draw ALL men to Himself.
John 12:32

Easy as 1, 2, 3?
Would Jesus draw ALL men to ANOTHER THAN Himself?

For the same reason and by the same logic as <easy as 1, 2, 3>, Would Jesus draw ALL men OTHER THAN ALL THOSE He draws to Himself?

Jesus does NOT draw all men to Himself, He offends most; and to most men Jesus is offensive.

Jesus does NOT draw all men to Himself, but ONLY all men He draws to Himself -- HE NEVER FAILS; He successfully draws THEM ALL to Himself WHOM ALL He draws to Himself.
 
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GodsGrace

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Thanks for the post, it's a gem. I'm saving it, be sure. I just love it! Boy I do. Man o man no man (or woman) CAN HELP TO BETRAY AND EXPOSE his or her true inner SELF, but deny self or keep it secret, never! Not even you could or can, dear <God's Grace> se voet!
How does what I say expose anything?

To God Be the Glory.
 

GodsGrace

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Easy as 1, 2, 3?
Would Jesus draw ALL men to ANOTHER THAN Himself?

For the same reason and by the same logic as <easy as 1, 2, 3>, Would Jesus draw ALL men OTHER THAN ALL THOSE He draws to Himself?

Jesus does NOT draw all men to Himself, He offends most; and to most men Jesus is offensive.

Jesus does NOT draw all men to Himself, but ONLY all men He draws to Himself -- HE NEVER FAILS; He successfully draws THEM ALL to Himself WHOM ALL He draws to Himself.
God AND Jesus draw ALL men to Themselves.

I know you have a problem with the word
ALL

But it's a simple word and it means ALL
in any language you wish to speak
todos
tutti
toute

Please see also Roman 1:19-20 God has ALWAYS drawn ALL to Himself so that ALL have the opportunity to ACCEPT Him or REJECT Him,,,,and in this way NO ONE can say they were not given a chance and NO ONE is without EXCUSE if they DO NOT CHOOSE GOD and are lost...they cannot complain upon their judgement after death.

The point is:

We must ACCEPT or REJECT GOD.

We are given a CHOICE, since we have FREE WILL.
Deuteronomy 30:19
Pilemon 1:14
Galatians 5:13
John 7:17


Perhaps you'd like to exegete those instead of insulting those who do not believe as you do.