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Featured All the ELECT please stand up

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by CNKW3, Jun 9, 2019.

  1. FollowHim

    FollowHim Active Member

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    "Utter foolishness" - how is it foolish to wonder what is Gods calling and who are the elect?
    It would be foolish if you miss an important point which means ones eternal destiny is not with God but
    to destruction. The real fool is the one who does not test themselves as Paul describes

    5 Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you--unless, of course, you fail the test?
    6 And I trust that you will discover that we have not failed the test.
    7 Now we pray to God that you will not do anything wrong. Not that people will see that we have stood the test but that you will do what is right even though we may seem to have failed.
    2 Cor 13

    Paul was anxious as to the gospel he was preaching, how correct it was so went to Jerusalem to get it checked.

    Equally Paul says he pushes onward to the calling of Christ so that he might for fail and it all be in vain.
    These are not words of certainty, but words of change, direction and growth.

    Peter underlines the danger of falling and says if you follow brotherly love you will never fall.

    10 For if you do these things, you will never fall.
    2 Peter 1

    So rather than foolishness, the wise man counts the cost, charts the route and then walks it.
    God bless you
     
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  2. FollowHim

    FollowHim Active Member

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    John answers this very point in his letter

    14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. Anyone who does not love remains in death.
    15 Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life in him.
    16 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers.
    1 John 3

    John is so concerned people get discouraged about their election in the people of God he tells them, rejoice, you know Jesus
    because you love His people, have love flowing from you and you obey His commands

    2 This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands.
    3 This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,
    4 for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith.
    1 John 5

    Rest assured if you love His people you love Jesus, for in His people is He revealed.
     
  3. Helen

    Helen Well-Known Member

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    welcome-sign-smiley-emoticon.gif
     
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  4. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    Welcome FH.....
    Good to have you here.

    Guess you don't realize that I was speaking to a calvinist.
    But your post is a good post because I've noticed that most (not all ) calvinists seem to have very little love in them.

    I do wonder why. Maybe because they have the sin of pride being that they are the CHOSEN FEW?

    My point was that if we choose God, we can know we are saved.

    If God does the choosing,,,how can anyone know they are saved?
    They cannot...and this is a problem with calvinism..the not knowing.
     
  5. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    You won't get any proof.
    Just silly remarks and dumb cartoons.
    As usual.

    So who of those who gave you a LIKE is willing to respond to the following:

    Mathew 6:13
    And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from evil.

    So is Jesus asking God to do something that has already been predestinated?
    Doesn't He know that God has already predestined EVERYTHING...
    So why ask God not to lead us into temptation?
     
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  6. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    I like the Welcome...
    but I also like your emoji's....
    they're the best!
     
  7. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    As usual,,,dumb remarks.

    You could read the following or remain ignorant of what Christianity teaches.
    Romans 9, in case you didn't know because you spend your time looking for funny cartoons,
    is about ISRAEL as a nation...it is NOT about individual salvation.

    Some day, learn about corporate salvation.
    It might help you to understand mainline Christianity.


    Benson Commentary
    Romans 9:20-21. Nay but, O man — Little, impotent, ignorant man; Who art thou — In all thy boasted wisdom and penetration; that repliest against God? — That accusest God of injustice, for himself fixing the terms on which he will show mercy? or for leaving those to the hardness of their hearts who obstinately and perseveringly refuse or neglect to comply with those terms? Or, (which may be rather intended,) who impiously formest arguments against God, on account of his distributing to some nations, or some individuals, favours which he denies to others; not considering that privileges which God is obliged to give to none, he may, without injustice, withhold from whom he will? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? — Why hast thou made me capable of honour and immortality, only on the terms of repentance and faith? Or, Why was I not entitled by birth, to advantages which others were born to?


    The apostle alludes here to Isaiah 45:9, where, in answer to the objections and cavils of the unbelieving Jews, disposed to murmur against God, and arraign the wisdom and justice of his dispensations, in regard to them, the prophet asks similar questions; implying that “nations, who derive their existence and continuance merely from the power and goodness of God, have no right to find fault with him, because he hath denied them this or that advantage, or because he bears with the wickedness of some nations for a long time, while he instantly punishes others.” Hath not the potter power over the clay — And, much more, hath not God power over his creatures; to appoint one vessel — Namely, the believer; to honour, and another — Namely, the unbeliever; to dishonour? — The power of the potter over the clay is the similitude which God himself used by Jeremiah for illustrating that power and sovereignty whereby he is entitled to make some nations great and happy, and to punish and destroy others.

    See Jeremiah 18:6-7; where “every reader must be sensible that nothing is said concerning individuals, some to be saved, and some to be damned, by an exercise of absolute sovereignty. It is his power and sovereignty in the disposal of nations only, that is described by the figure of the potter.” To make of the same lump one vessel to honour, and another to dishonour — “The same lump signifies the mass of mankind, out of which particular nations are formed; consequently the one vessel means, not any particular person, but a nation or community. And a vessel to honour, or an honourable use, means a nation made great and happy by the favour and protection of God, and by the advantages which he confers on them.

    On the other hand, a vessel to dishonour, signifies a nation which God depresses, by denying it the advantages bestowed on others, or by depriving it of the advantages which it formerly enjoyed, Acts 13:17. The meaning of this question is, May not God, without injustice, exalt one nation, by bestowing privileges upon it, and depress another, by taking away the privileges which it has long enjoyed.” — Macknight. If we survey, says an eminent writer, the right which God has over us in a more general way, with regard to his intelligent creatures, God may be considered in two different views; as Creator, Proprietor, and Lord of all, or as their moral Governor and Judge. God, as sovereign Lord and Proprietor of all, dispenses his gifts or favours to his creatures with perfect wisdom, but by no rules or methods of proceeding that we are acquainted with. The time when we shall exist, the country where we shall live, our parents, our constitution of body and turn of mind: these, and numberless other circumstances, are, doubtless, ordered with perfect wisdom, but by rules that lie quite out of our sight.

    But God’s methods of dealing with us, as our Governor and Judge, are clearly revealed, and perfectly known; namely, that he will finally reward every man according to his works; he that believeth shall be saved, and he that believeth not shall be damned. Therefore, though he hath mercy on whom he will, and whom he will he hardeneth, (that is, suffers to be hardened, in consequence of their obstinate wickedness,) yet his is not the will of an arbitrary, capricious, or tyrannical being. He wills nothing but what is infinitely wise and good; and therefore his will is a most proper rule of judgment. He will show mercy, as he hath assured us, to none but true believers, nor harden any but such as obstinately refuse his mercy.
     
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  8. Kermos

    Kermos Active Member

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    This is an open forum.

    The Spirit loathes the lies that you write such as your false teaching of being able to choose Jesus - your false faith/belief which opposes the very words of Lord Jesus "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).

    I want you to stop with your lies - all of your lies - including:

    An example of GodsGrace trying to twist the meaning of scripture while failing miserably quoted and exposed in my post #1034 in this thread, and my post links back to your post via the thread.

    Your bold-faced lie about your use of commentaries quoted and exposed in my post #968 in this thread, and my post links back to your post via the thread.

    Your disinformation campaign (fake news) about the first 1,500 years where you lie that no one discerned the Sovereignty of God in salvation quoted and exposed in my post #1018 in this thread, and my post links back to your post via the thread.

    Another case of you lying quoted and exposed in my post #1016 in this thread, and my post links back to your post via the thread.

    The leaven of your deceit leavens the whole loaf of your theology (Galatians 5:9). The father of lies is the devil (John 8:44).

    GodsGrace, if you do not want to be refuted, then do not post your lies on an open forum.

    THERE IS NO LEVEL THAT A PERSON CAN CHOOSE LORD JESUS BECAUSE HE SAID “YOU DID NOT CHOOSE ME, BUT I CHOSE YOU" (JOHN 15:16) – JESUS, BEING GOD, DID NOT PROVIDE ANY EXCEPTION FOR CHOOSING TOWARD JESUS.
     
  9. Kermos

    Kermos Active Member

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    Your citation of John 3:16 as support for a person choosing Jesus is in error, GodsGrace.

    The phrase "choose to" does not occur in John 3:16, as in "chooses to believe" - NO - in John 3:16 is "believes".

    Here are the words of Lord Jesus, "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life" (John 3:16).

    And God is the source of a believers belief/faith, per the words of Lord Jesus, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent" (John 6:29).

    The "believes" in John 3:16 is the work of God defined in John 6:29.

    A person can not truly believe in Him whose words a person denies.

    THERE IS NO LEVEL THAT A PERSON CAN CHOOSE LORD JESUS BECAUSE HE SAID “YOU DID NOT CHOOSE ME, BUT I CHOSE YOU" (JOHN 15:16) – JESUS, BEING GOD, DID NOT PROVIDE ANY EXCEPTION FOR CHOOSING TOWARD JESUS.
     
  10. Kermos

    Kermos Active Member

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    Lord Jesus said "And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from evil. [For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen]" (Matthew 6:13).

    Who leads? GOD

    Who delivers? GOD

    Whose power? GOD'S

    Whose glory? GOD'S

    What duration? FOREVER

    On the other hand, you claim that by your power you chose God which is directly against the words of Jesus in Matthew 6:13. Your "choice" is your claim of a work - no matter how teeny tiny or gargantuan - to save yourself from the coming wrath of God. Again, you deny the words of Lord Jesus.
     
  11. Kermos

    Kermos Active Member

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    Since Lord Jesus said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16), so it is certain that you did not choose Jesus!
     
  12. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    GodsGrace in not in error since believing on the Lord Jesus Christ is a conscious decision. While the Gospel and the Holy Spirit impress upon the sinner the commandments to repent and believe, eventually each individual must make a conscious decision to receive Christ as Lord and Savior. This is perfectly clear in Acts 2.

    ACTS 2

    THE GOSPEL WAS PREACHED

    36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. [JESUS IS BOTH LORD AND SAVIOR]

    SINNERS WERE CONVICTED
    37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? [A CONSCIOUS DECISION WAS REQUIRED]

    THE COMMANDMENT TO REPENT AND BELIEVE WAS GIVEN
    38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. [BAPTISM FOLLOWS REPENTANCE]

    THE GOSPEL WAS FURTHER PRESENTED
    39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. [GOD CALLS ALL MEN EVERYWHERE TO REPENT]

    THE GOSPEL WAS FURTHER PRESENTED
    40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. ["SAVE YOURSELVES" IMPLIES A CONSCIOUS DECISION]

    THE DECISIONS WERE MADE AND THE SAVED WERE BAPTIZED
    41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. [GLADLY RECEIVING THE GOSPEL IS A CONSCIOUS DECISION]

    Now that Scripture shows you to be in gross error, you must repent and let everyone know that you have acknowledged God's truth.
     
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  13. Kermos

    Kermos Active Member

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    You confusion is evident in your first paragraph where you wrote "it's not specific individuals".

    You deny the words of Lord Jesus where He says "For many are called, but few [are] chosen." (Matthew 22:14)! That is about specific individuals!

    You deny the words of Lord Jesus where He says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16)! That is about specific individuals!

    You add to the Word of God by trying to impose your "work"/purification, which is not God's work but your work and the Apostle Paul said it is not by work of man (Ephesians 2:8-9). It is evil to add to the Word of God.

    EXAMINING 1 PETER 1:21-22

    There is a problem with the English translation of 1 Peter 1:21-22 that you cited because the Greek does not agree with it. Here are the direct sequence of words for this passage written by the Apostle Peter "The-ones through Him believing into God the One rousing Him out of-dead-ones and esteem to Him giving as-besides the belief of-you and expectation to-be into God the souls of you having-purified in the obedience of-the truth through Spirit into brotherly-affection unfeigned out of-clean heart one-another love-you earnestly" (1 Peter 1:21-22).

    The Apostle Peter wrote "God the souls of you having-purified in the obedience of-the truth" - this is direct from the Greek! Clearly, the Apostle Peter attributed the purification of the souls of the elect to God.

    The Apostle Peter is not going to disagree with the words of Lord Jesus when He said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16); therefore, your interpretation of 1 Peter is clearly in error.

    God opens eyes and ears, purifies the souls of the elect, and this is done by the Word of God! It's all God's, all glory to God.

    The elect are born again, and only God causes a person to be born again (John 3:3 and John 3:5).

    THERE IS NO LEVEL THAT A PERSON CAN CHOOSE LORD JESUS BECAUSE HE SAID “YOU DID NOT CHOOSE ME, BUT I CHOSE YOU" (JOHN 15:16) – JESUS, BEING GOD, DID NOT PROVIDE ANY EXCEPTION FOR CHOOSING TOWARD JESUS.
     
  14. Kermos

    Kermos Active Member

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    A boxer receives punches - not by choice - but in the fury of the fight.

    A lover receives a love letter - not by choice - but in gladness.

    You are confused about the meaning of receive, Enoch111, as you try to apply "receive" to Acts 2:41.

    Both of you, Enoch111 and GodsGrace, are in error about belief.

    You contradict Lord Jesus by claiming that you conjured something up in yourself to choose Jesus by adding to His words in John 3:16.

    BELIEF DEFINED BY LORD JESUS: Lord Jesus said belief in Jesus whom the Father sent is the work of God (John 6:29).

    Acts 2:37 clearly states "they were pierced to the heart" - thus revealing this is the conviction of the Spirit - see John 16:7-8. The Word of God saves, Enoch111, a person dies eternally if they go to the grave thinking they have saved themselves by a choice toward Jesus, Lord and God (John 20:28).

    Acts 2:40 is accurately a command of "Be saved from this perverse generation!" not "save yourselves"! Here is the full text "And with many other words he solemnly testified and kept on exhorting them, saying, 'Be saved from this perverse generation!'" (Acts 2:40) - and only God can save!

    All of the citations you provided are in agreement with Lord Jesus' words of "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).
     
  15. FollowHim

    FollowHim Active Member

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    On this very point, I posted on a forum about free will meaning we are not robots.
    A member decided he did believe in these terms he was a robot but it was glorious programming.

    That is fatalism and determinism in it true form. Not surprising love does not bloom as what choice is
    there is all you choice are not your own, if you are angry, God intended this, if not, God intended this.
    It abdicates responsibility for sin and responsibility for good. How is it then possible to suggest one
    needs to sow to the Spirit and not the flesh.
     
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  16. CNKW3

    CNKW3 Active Member

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    Who is God going to punish? The one who does not OBEY. 2 thes 1: 7,8
    Who OBEYS? Whosoever! The individual. God doesn’t make a person believe and obey.
     
  17. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    GOD REVEALS HIMSELF TO US.

    AND WE DECIDE WHETHER OR NOT TO CHOOSE HIM.

    Romans 1:19-20
    John 3:26
     
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  18. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    That WHOEVER believes in HIM,,,,will be saved.
    WHOEVER
    NOT
    Those that God chooses.
     
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  19. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    So, Jesus was being BOSSY to God Father and TELLING HIM WHAT TO DO?

    Your explanation falls VERY SHORT of any meaning.
     
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  20. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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