VictoryinJesus
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Thank you. I don’t think I’ve ever noticed that verse before. I’m glad you posted it.
Judaizers! They Live!!!! They walk among us!!!
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Thank you. I don’t think I’ve ever noticed that verse before. I’m glad you posted it.
Lol. Getting there. You see, the point I was making is that the law Paul is speaking of here is a specific law. The law given (verse 19) because of transgressions. That is the law that is not of faith. You strive to keep that particular law, the law given because of transgressions, then you are not exercising faith.
But, on the other hand, is the law against which Israel transgressed, which transgressions prompted the giving of another law. That law is the law of ten commandments which you said they transgressed as soon as they declared they would obey. So God gave them another set of laws... The ceremonial, civil, and health laws to assist them in their relationships with each other and with God... And to reveal to the nation's round about them that God is good and with of their worship also. Unfortunately, such a scenario did not eventuate because Israel kept God to themselves... Even after Christ it took ten more years and a vision of a meat lovers pizza to convince Peter not to call gentiles unclean... That for gentiles also was intended the blessings of Abraham... As a father of many nations.. Not just one.
The law you speak of in Galatians 3:12 is that law given because Israel transgressed the God's commandments. So when you and others advise us of being selective in our commandment keeping, you betcha. We don't keep the ceremonial laws... They applied to another age. We don't keep the civil laws, we are not a Hebrew theocracy. We do keep the health laws, because we want to be healthy. We also keep God's commandments, because He has filled our hearts with His love for Him and for our neighbour and our faith is such that we believe that when He promises you shalt not steal... Then, by His grace and power, we don't steal. So beautifully simple.
There was a point that you made earlier that has been lost in the shuffle...you appeared to be contending for the idea that the law is of faith...that we keep the commandments of the Lord because of faith. So how do you reconcile that idea with the concept in the verse in question?
Gal 3:12, And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Feel free to respond at your leisure. I am going to go to bed and will very likely post again sometime in the morning.
Gal 3:12, And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Feel free to respond at your leisure. I am going to go to bed and will very likely post again sometime in the morning.
VictoryinJesus
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”It not only can be fulfilled without a physical building in Jerusalem, it already has. The temple in NT times is us. The church. The whole idea of a temple was as a residence for God on earth that He may dwell with His people. It was never about religion.”
Agree.
Won’t get into a huge debate nor argument but ...the quotes from proverbs you posted and any others speaking of His commandments ...would not disagree with any as they are powerful verses. Would disagree often though with how they are read and applied. In being The difference between the (physical)temple in the Old Testament, and the Temple of God in the New Testament. Huge difference. Same with how one reads those proverbs or Solomon’s wisdom; “it was never about religion.” Agree. His commandments are the same...not about religion.
The prophets agreed. Acts 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet, ...
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As far we we can tell there are no Judaizers on this forum. So now you have created a straw man and are enjoying bashing him with lengthy posts. But you are simply tilting at windmills.
Judaizers -- according to the NT -- were the Pharisees who taught that in addition to faith in Christ it was necessary to be Torah observant, even wanting saved Gentiles to be be circumcised. But the epistle to the Galatians clarified the Gospel truth that we are saved by grace through faith, and not by any works of the Law.
No. That was what the scribes and Pharisees claimed. Jesus could not possibly break a single commandment, since He is the one who gave those commandments. Had He violated any commandment, He would have sinned and could not become the Savior of sinners.
Humor is good. This thread attracts them like fly paper!
I see you and Stan B are a team....birds of a feather....
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If you do not realise some do not follow Jesus but a compromise of their own imaginations.
I suggest also many deny Jesus calls us to obey His commands, but was just suggesting the impossible so that we might rely on Him and the cross all the more. If you have not heard this argument before, then maybe these folk avoid this forum.
I am not being rude, you are not understanding what I am saying.
We need a transformed heart with Christs love and purity dwelling there. I notice though I have mentioned this before you have avoiding agreeing with this as part of our spiritual foundation. Why is that? Do you not know the cleansing of Christ in your life?
It matters what is your approach to Jesus. Is He the one you love, follow and obey? Is your heart cleansed, purified and made whole in Him so you bring glory to His name and His word?
The fruit of the Holy Spirit in us is our walk, our words and our actions. Are you suggesting something else?
Based on discussions with others they tend to believe walking in the ways of Jesus is self righteousness and a delusion.
The fruit of such teaching is not resolving and repenting of sin, doing good and avoiding evil, but just compromise and defeat. So is this what you are driving at, but cannot openly declare it for fear of ridicule? And I would ridicule those who as false teachers teach this. God bless you.
Keep talking...
But consider that I am looking for your views of the Mosaic Law in Christianity.
Not that we cannot have a sidebar...
Oh and ridicule! You are talking to a person that was born without a fear bone...that is almost documented.
VictoryinJesus
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Establish it NOT by the flesh, but by the Spirit(of Faith). The difference between the Old Testament and the New And Better promises in Him. The difference between a physical dead temple(building) of the Old Testament or the Spiritual temple alive and growing up, with Christ as the chief corner stone of the New Testament. So take the Sabbath rest. What is the difference between the Old Testament Sabbath rest and the New Testament Sabbath Rest? When we enter into God’s Rest as in Hebrews 4:10-12 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. [11] Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
Are we not observing His Rest in thanksgiving and praise and worship and songs...praying without ceasing always, since God dwells in temples made without hands? But see...others would judge the Old is preferred over the New where God dwells with us; within.
@brakelite said...If it wasn't achievable, would God have devised it?
Let me clarify a little on modern Judaizers. If you read the post at the beginning of this thread you can see why the Jews had good reason to be upset about what was going on. I really cannot blame them for that. Modern Judaizers are not doing what they do because they are trying to sin. They have different reasons, probably because they want to show some respect to the Mosaic Law, but in effect they are still working against the truth and working against the Gospel, and certainly preaching against the Apostle Paul, and that constitutes a large part of the New Testament. And while I am at it, let me clarify again my feelings towards the Jews. As a youngster I grew up with Jewish families. Love the Jews and have Jewish friends to this day. As a military person I believe the U.S. place should be between Israel and its enemies....period! Still I am not a Jew. But Christians do not understand Judaism very well. In the Jewish religion, in the Old Testament we can find scriptures that were promises and threats from God to the Jews. What we cannot find is were God is offering heaven as a reward or hell as a punishment. This is why scholars refer to Judaism as a "this world" religion. Their rewards and punishments occurred in this world. You are going to find scriptures were God promises them land and many descendants and good fortune. But you are not going to find a scripture like, "In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you." It is an interesting study and if you want to go through it you can start a thread. But most of Judaism is about the division between God and Man. The veil in the temple symbolized that separation or division. Christianity produced a whole different relationship with the Trinity...I call you friends....This is a whole different level of relationship with God. We are in the family of God.
Lawless?
First of all I believe there is a difference between beginner followers and learners calling themselves Christians and a man who is a Converted, saved and born again man IN Christ.
Jesus wrapped up the intent of ALL the Laws of God into...."in Jesus' his own words"...
Mark 12
[28] And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?
[29] And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
[30] And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
[31] And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
[32] And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
[33] And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.
And the Understanding thereof, "IS";
With the Spirit of thee Lord Gods POWER WITHIN a man, so shall these Commands BE ACCOMPLISHED "IN"" such man.
And the Spirit of thee Lord God WITHIN a man....APPLIES to a man Converted IN CHRIST.
Understanding...there are LAWS and COMMANDS forward TO MEN....But men under their own power FAIL to KEEP the Laws and Commands.
A man WITH the Internal Power of thee Lord God, KEEPS the Lords Laws and Commands...
BY and THROUGH the Lords POWER.
Glory to God,
Taken
I have a friend and neighbor that is a Christian Minister. He has traveled extensively to Israel, living there at different times for a year or so at a time.
He has made a point of traveling about Israel, meeting folks, visiting with families...Jewish and Muslim and Christian families.
As you say, Christians do not understand Jews...It is a two way road block of sorts...
According to my friend, a huge dilemma he has observed IS;
Jews do NOT understand Christianity.
Muslims do NOT understand Christianity.
And...many Christians do NOT understand Christianity.
Christianity, IMO, requires a long INDEPTH Study....to arrive at the SIMPLICITY of the Big Picture.
Glory to God,
Taken
Waiting on him
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I believe the misunderstanding lies in an inability to see who our neighbor is with Christ in him, and what this implies.
I think the misunderstanding is in the UMPTEEN "different" carnally minded interpretations that Christians of all ages like to preach.
Christians are well equipped to READ the words in Scripture....but FEW are properly equipped to "spiritually" Understand what Scripture means.
Seriously...If I were NOT a Converted Christian and 10 "Christian" men from "different denominations". were each teaching me about the meanings of Scripture....I'd think they were all different and looney... lol
Glory to God,
Taken
In John 5:17-18, Jesus said, My Father is working up till now, and I also work. He said this on the sabbath day.
And then, it was the estimation of the apostle John, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, that the Pharisees and scribes sought to kill Him because 1) He broke the sabbath; and, 2) He claimed that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.
So then, if Jesus didn't really break the sabbath, that is one less scripture passage that a man can use to prove the Deity of Christ. Because if one of them isn't true then the other one also probably isn't true. It was just the Pharisees' estimation that Jesus was claiming to be equal with God. No; for it is clear to me that it was indeed the estimation of the apostle John under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, that 1) He was claiming to be equal with God; and 2) He broke the sabbath.
Except He didn't really break the sabbath; because He is the Lord of the sabbath.
But if He were subject to the letter and the way that the law is laid out in scripture, He did indeed break the sabbath. Except for the fact that He is Lord over it. (He is High Priest according to the order of Melchizedec, which is not based in a carnal commandment but is after the power of an endless life).
Exo 20:10, But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Jhn 5:17, But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
Jhn 5:18, Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
context:
Jhn 5:10, The Jews therefore said unto him that was cured, It is the sabbath day: it is not lawful for thee to carry thy bed.
Jhn 5:11, He answered them, He that made me whole, the same said unto me, Take up thy bed, and walk.
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This does not answer the basics of becoming like Jesus. Such a vacuum is so obvious to the elect. Some have a vague view of Jesus and grace, like a drunk at a party for tee totallers claiming the caller of the party thinks drunks are ok .....
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