Calvinism

[Mjh29]

I know the Bible backward and forward

better than that I understand it and many other things.

Verses about humility:
~ James 4:6
~ Proverbs 22:4
~Luke 14:11

You keep talking about scriptures, I am smart enough not to play your game.

~ 1 Peter 3:15

Maybe time to crack that Bible and put away the memes... your unChristian hate is showing

 

[Giuliano]

Very interesting. In the early church there were those that wanted to drop the Old Testament, seeing a difference in character between the God of the Old Testament and Christ. The Gnostics and a fellow named Marcion saw an evilness in the Old Testament God. I have seen this view somewhat expressed today nonchalantly given as a reason for the cruelty of the Mosaic Law, in that God took on the character of evil because of the evilness of man. It always shocks me how a Christian could come to such a conclusion. But history shows that it is not a new idea. Then you have the name it and claim it crowd in Christianity. You just never know where the mind goes.

There is a saying in Judaism that the Torah is written in the language of men. I found it interesting since it means things aren't really the way they may seem at first. For example, is God angry when people disobey Him? If we are looking at things from a limited human viewpoint, we could easily reach that conclusion. So in order for people to understand something about God, He is described as being "angry" if people disobey Him. That is the most superficial way of reading the Torah; and for wicked men inclined to evil, it may prevent them from some evil deeds.

They are told orally by their teachers (if they have good teachers) that God is perfect; and if something looks wrong, it means the human perspective is wrong. For example, the Torah says the LORD came down to see what was happening at the Tower of Babel. It is a laughable idea to suppose that God is near-sighted. It is absurd to think God has to go somewhere to find out something. The student reading the passage with impure ideas about God will not be bothered by the absurdity. He will think God is like people.

Gentiles trying to read the Torah can really get confounded when they read that the LORD "tried" to kill Moses. Does that mean God wanted to kill Moses but failed? Again, this is such a foolish thought, it should be dismissed at once; that description is only how things may have appeared to humans from their fallen perspective. It's written in a way that fallen men can understand; but something else lies behind it. When we read about "the LORD," we can't be sure at once exactly what is being talked about. The Jews were very reluctant to name angels or demons since if people knew their names, they might start worshiping them. So "three men" can be described as "the LORD" in the story with Abraham on the plain of Mamre. An angel can be described as "the LORD" too. When Hagar met the angel and said she had seen God, we should not believe she actually saw God. That would be impossible. She saw an angel and then knew that God was real -- in that way she "saw" the truth of God's existence. The Jews also do not separate the angels from God the way some Christians do. They form a unity. Thus if you see an angel of the LORD, you see a tiny fraction of the LORD -- but you did not see Him in His totality. Hagar was misled by what she saw since she said she saw God and lived. She really thought she had seen God. In a way she did, but she really didn't in the way she thought; but God got His message through to her, and that's what mattered.

The Old Testament is full of stumbling-blocks so to speak, meant for Jews to reflect on so they could rise above impure thoughts. The commandment was given to love God; and then the readers have to ask themselves, "How could I love a God like that?" The only way to do it is to realize that God is Perfect and not the way humans often think about Him. If something bad happens to us, we're tempted to think God is angry with us. We may talk about "the wrath of God" and the Old Testament uses the same human phrase to describe some things.

It is foolish to think that an all powerful, all wise, and all loving God would throw a tantrum the way human fathers do at times. We humans throw tantrums when we feel something is getting out of control. We think if we threaten people with our anger, maybe they'll be frightened into doing what we want -- and then we can feel we have things under control again. It is impossible that God could feel out of control and feel the need to frighten people so He can feel He's in control.

Similarly we ought not believe God is angry if we don't love Him. That is a human weakness. God is not like that. God is Love. There is no hate in Him. God was intelligent enough to know when He made us that some would love Him and others not. He did not make a mistake doing it that way, and there is nothing for Him to be frustrated about. The commandment to love God is to benefit us, not Him. God wants the best for us; and if we choose the Path of Love, He is pleased. If we reject God and Love, He is patient and still loves us. We will run into many problems in life and our consciences will bother us if we are on the road of hate; and we may even think God is punishing us. It can feel that way! So it is written, "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom." Yes, the beginning. Get on the Path of Love even if it's with a mistaken idea of God's being wrathful if you don't.

 

[Willie T]

Despite the fact that you still might feel the same about the Calvinistic POV, I truly think everyone should read, AT LEAST, John Calvin's Institutes of the Christian Religion before posting ANYTHING either negative or positive concerning Calvinism.

Something similar should apply to posting about any Denominational leanings.

 

[Mjh29]

Despite the fact that you still might feel the same about the Calvinistic POV, I truly think everyone should read, AT LEAST, John Calvin's Institutes of the Christian Faith before posting ANYTHING either negative or positive concerning Calvinism.

Something similar should apply to posting about any Denominational leanings.

I've read some works by Charles Finney and John Wesley... There's some good quotes in them about things like God's love, but I really don't agree with the doctrinal viewpoints. I am open to discussing my views from Scripture; but when you have someone like Hatey McRage whose ears are completely closed to anything other than his own agenda and opinions, there is nothing I can do!

 

[Grailhunter]

Verses about humility:
~ James 4:6
~ Proverbs 22:4
~Luke 14:11



~ 1 Peter 3:15

Maybe time to crack that Bible and put away the memes... your unChristian hate is showing

lol the Bible is continually open.....You still whining!

 

[Mjh29]

lol the Bible is continually open.....You still whining!

View attachment 7544

Again, show me the basis; You've called Calvinism heresy plenty of times, we all know that's what you THINK; but can you actually prove it from Scripture? Or do you just not like it because it hits you right in the opinion?

 

[Willie T]

BTW, here is a place to get lots of his books pretty cheap:
John Calvin Books | List of books by author John Calvin

 

[Waiting on him]

I personally think the word, IGNORANT is one that we, ourselves, should take the initiative to never use...… especially the way we ALL know we use it to insult others.

It’s actually a word used to identify an agnostic, and I don’t believe the man she is so loosely using her words with is either. She says JM attack’s her and her religion. Scripture says being defamed we intreat, is that meaty enough?

1 Corinthians 4:13 KJV
[13] Being defamed, we intreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day.


Tecarta Bible

 

[Willie T]

I've read some works by Charles Finney and John Wesley... There's some good quotes in them about things like God's love, but I really don't agree with the doctrinal viewpoints. I am open to discussing my views from Scripture; but when you have someone like Hatey McRage whose ears are completely closed to anything other than his own agenda and opinions, there is nothing I can do!

In cases like that, couldn't you simply choose to discuss things, instead, with Roger Reasonable or Lucy Lucid?

 

[CharismaticLady]

So... how are you imperfect yet sinless? Sin is what corrupts. And any transgression is a transgression against God... which is a sin.

In both the New and the Old Covenants you must see sin as God sees sin. Calvinists say, "sin is sin" as you basically said "transgression is transgression." No, there are willful sins, and unwillful sins. God, who knows the heart knows which are rebellion against Him, and unintentionally, or even unknowingly, or as the Bible calls it "unwittingly." Willful sins are sins of lawlessness. Notice the word "law" in lawlessness. Let's say someone steals or lies under oath in court, or murders someone they hate, those are all willful sins of lawlessness, and sins unto death and in 1 John 5:16-17. Calvinists say the sin unto death is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, and that is a person rejecting Christ. But if you read the passage, it is referring to a "brother." They already came to Christ so that is a contradiction to Calvinist belief. You now have a choice to either adjust your thinking, or hold to the erroneous Calvinist teaching on this verse. I will go further. In the Old Testament, anyone who broke a commandment willfully was killed by stoning. There were no sacrifices to "cover" their sin. But there was sacrifice for unintentional sin. Look at Numbers 15:22-36. It starts with the sacrifice for unintentional sin, and I will tell you in a minute what those are called, and ends with stoning someone who picked up sticks on the Sabbath, a breakage of the 4th commandment. See the difference? It contradicts "sin is sin." Not to God. Calvin isn't God.

Okay, now for unintentional or sins unwittingly committed. Leviticus 5:15 calls those "trespasses." That is what I committed against you in the heat of the moment when I should have stopped and thought what kinder word I should use. In 1 John 5:16-17 those are sins NOT unto death. They have to do with our relationship one to another, not us against God. See 1 John 1:7 and you will see if we walk in the Spirit, even sins of some kind are being cleansed, and we have relationship with each other. Those are our trespasses being cleansed. You will also notice in 1 John 2 that Jesus is our Advocate. Advocate for what without repentance (not mentioned)? Trespasses, but there is a big condition. We have to forgive each other our trespasses against each other and stay in fellowship with each other.

Matthew 6:9-15
9 In this manner, therefore, pray:

Our Father in heaven,
Hallowed be Your name.
10 Your kingdom come.
Your will be done
On earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts/trespasses,
As we forgive our debtors/trespasses.
13 And do not lead us into temptation,
But deliver us from the evil one.
For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.

14 “For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Some translation of Bible use the word trespass in the Lord's Prayer, but both are debts.

In the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew 5:23 Therefore if you bring your gift to the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.

That has to do with trespasses. This is why I asked you to forgive me, so hopefully, we can be reconciled. I've been dealing with the stubbornness of Calvinists for years and never has one of them been open to even listening. Thank you for changing my mind.

 

[Grailhunter]

Again, show me the basis; You've called Calvinism heresy plenty of times, we all know that's what you THINK; but can you actually prove it from Scripture? Or do you just not like it because it hits you right in the opinion?

I don't think it was my opinion when I was involved with their arrest. The pictures I am providing is from multiple sources, so not my opinion. Battling scriptures! Again I do not dispute the scriptures you provide, I condemn your intent. Not silly enough to play Satan's game. Since Calvinism started some 1500 after Christ, I doubt if there is going to be a scripture that says, beware of Calvinism. Just the general scriptures about beware false teaching....they were not really expecting someone to be evil enough to portray God as a hideous bloodthirsty monster.

 

[CharismaticLady]

It’s actually a word used to identify an agnostic, and I don’t believe the man she is so loosely using her words with is either. She says JM attack’s her and her religion. Scripture says being defamed we intreat, is that meaty enough?

1 Corinthians 4:13 KJV
[13] Being defamed, we intreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day.


Tecarta Bible

This is between him and me, and we are reconciling.

 

[Waiting on him]

I don't think it was my opinion when I was involved with their arrest. The pictures I am providing is from multiple sources, so not my opinion. Battling scriptures! Again I do not dispute the scriptures you provide, I condemn your intent. Not silly enough to play Satan's game. Since Calvinism started some 1500 after Christ, I doubt if there is going to be a scripture that says, beware of Calvinism. Just the general scriptures about beware false teaching....they were not really expecting someone to be evil enough to portray God as a hideous bloodthirsty monster.


View attachment 7545

These are some very extreme accusations your making.

 

[Giuliano]

If you read your Bible as much as you did memes, maybe you wouldn't feel the need to rage so much!

Look, I'm all for debate; but this is ridiculous. When someone takes the time to try and present biblical evidence and all you do is post Hate-memes, it shows your regard for the word compared to your regard for your opinions

What you think of these two quotes from Calvin and ask if you believe God created some people to be damned? I think that's the major point of disagreement.

Two quotes from Calvin -- found at John Calvin Quotes – The Calvinism of John Calvin – Are Calvinists REALLY “Calvinists”?:

“…salvation is freely offered to some while others are barred from access to it.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 21, Paragraph 5)

“We call predestination God’s eternal decree, by which he compacted with himself what he willed to become of each man. For all are not created in equal condition; rather, eternal life is fore-ordained for some, eternal damnation for others.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 21, Paragraph 5)

 

[Grailhunter]

These are some very extreme accusations you making.

lol Apparently you have not been reading along lol This isn't nothing. Check with your local law enforcement. As far as their tactics that can be looked up in the internet...or books on cultic tactics. Nothing new, and it is so obvious.

 

[Waiting on him]

lol Apparently you have not been reading along lol This isn't nothing. Check with your local law enforcement. As far as their tactics that can be looked up in the internet...or books on cultic tactics. Nothing new, and it is so obvious.

You don’t believe people who attend Calvinist churches are among the Brethren?

 

[Willie T]

It’s actually a word used to identify an agnostic, and I don’t believe the man she is so loosely using her words with is either. She says JM attack’s her and her religion. Scripture says being defamed we intreat, is that meaty enough?

1 Corinthians 4:13 KJV
[13] Being defamed, we intreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day.


Tecarta Bible

I like the way that we can so easily find different ways to say things:
1 Corinthians 4:13 The Passion Translation (TPT)

13 When we are slandered incessantly, we always answer gently,[1] ready to reconcile. Even now, in the world’s opinion, we are nothing but filth [2] and the lowest scum.

Footnotes:

1. 1 Corinthians 4:13 Or “We appeal to them” (directly).
2. 1 Corinthians 4:13 Or “scapegoats.”

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

One scripture is what has gotten him into misinterpretation. One scripture can be easily explained if read in context with about 20 verses before and behind the "one scripture." I showed him that in Romans 7 with his section describing those still under the law without the Spirit, and he rejected it, preferring to believe Christians will sin after salvation, but that is without the Spirit. Does the Spirit lead us into sin?

He does not prefer to keep on topic and discuss the scripture to learn. He just comes back with "this is ridiculous" and closes his mind to the truth. He doesn't want to learn.

Every Christian still sins. There are no sinless Christians. Christians still have a physical body that the motions of sin still are at work.
Any professed Christian who claims they do not sin any longer does not understand sin or salvation

 

[CharismaticLady]

I don't think it was my opinion when I was involved with their arrest. The pictures I am providing is from multiple sources, so not my opinion. Battling scriptures! Again I do not dispute the scriptures you provide, I condemn your intent. Not silly enough to play Satan's game. Since Calvinism started some 1500 after Christ, I doubt if there is going to be a scripture that says, beware of Calvinism. Just the general scriptures about beware false teaching....they were not really expecting someone to be evil enough to portray God as a hideous bloodthirsty monster.


View attachment 7545

"Beware of the Reformation" is more accurate. And there is.

 

[Waiting on him]

I like the way that we can so easily find different ways to say things:
1 Corinthians 4:13 The Passion Translation (TPT)

13 When we are slandered incessantly, we always answer gently,[1] ready to reconcile. Even now, in the world’s opinion, we are nothing but filth [2] and the lowest scum.

Footnotes:

1. 1 Corinthians 4:13 Or “We appeal to them” (directly).
2. 1 Corinthians 4:13 Or “scapegoats.”

Do you believe this man to be ignorant/stupid?