The Work of The Holy Spirit

[Giuliano]

I can't engage you in matters concerning the New testament as I believe you have not entered into that kind of life and understanding. You are stuck in the OT and what the flesh can do...and how God deals with mankind OUTSIDE of Christ.

The fact that you only see Gentiles entering in by the power of the flesh says an awful lot.

I said nothing of the sort. Have you taken leave of your senses? No one can enter by "the power of the flesh" -- neither Jew nor Gentile.

I'm also not interested in your judgment of me. You can think me mad if you like, but I'm not the person here making statements contrary to Scripture as you have.

Not everyone has received the Spirit. And this is the truth...not a slight. My observations are meant to convey accuracy and understanding and not ruffle the pride of a man. There is a bigger picture to appreciate here. We are in a time where God has rejected the fleshly Israelites as being His people. But you will not see that of course.

I said they had been blinded and cut off the tree; and they will be grafted back on, if indeed they are truly of Israel to begin with.

You will not see that there is a spiritual calling on ALL people....no fleshly prerogatives. It is by faith...not DNA.

You are making things up. Please get a grip on your over-active imagination. I believe God is Love. God loves everyone. The whole purpose of Israel was to help bring the Gentiles to salvation. Is this not the reason Jesus found his disciples, all Jews, who were already his sheep. so they could help spread the Gospel to the entire world? Was that not also the reason there were 70 members of the Sanhedrin -- to show how Israel was to act as a nation of priests to the Gentiles? Surely.

Pride? Why do you keep talking about pride? Perhaps your pride was wounded by my posting Scriptures that contradicted some of your posts? A simple "oops" would have ended this conversation. Ask yourself where your idea came from that people in the Old Testament never had the Holy Spirit in them? Ask yourself why you posted something like that? Why did you want to believe that? Why did it perturb you when I cited Scriptures to show they could?

Have you converted to Judaism? Why not?

Why would I?

The Gentiles that were among the "mixed multitude" (erev rav) became Jews...or at least their offspring did. Is that what you think the "wild branches" are?

The wild branches would include any Gentiles grafted in, either as converts to Judaism, as righteous Gentiles who do not convert, or as Christians in the New Testament era. As far as what I believe, I believe there were 144,000 original souls in Israel. That means by the time of Moses, many had already been grafted in by being converts to Judaism; but by no means was conversion to Judaism ever any kind of requirement.

I still ask you if God ever asks the impossible from anyone. Why so reluctant to answer a simple yes or no?

 

[Ezra]

Who said repentance has to happen before death?

because a dead man /woman can not repent
19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:

20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,

21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:

28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

you can NOT be saved after death .you need study up. for all israel to be saved they have to come to Christ . at this time time the nation Israel does not recognize Jesus as Christ/saviour . they are looking for human leader. after you die its judgement .
your either saved when you die or your lost when you die. after death there IS NO 2ND CHANCE

 

[Giuliano]

because a dead man /woman can not repent
19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:

20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,

21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:

28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

you can NOT be saved after death .you need study up. for all israel to be saved they have to come to Christ . at this time time the nation Israel does not recognize Jesus as Christ/saviour . they are looking for human leader. after you die its judgement .
your either saved when you die or your lost when you die. after death there IS NO 2ND CHANCE

You give your opinion, and it's mere opinion. Ask a Rabbi about that passage.

And take it up with Paul since he's the one who said all Israel will be saved.

 

[Episkopos]

I still ask you if God ever asks the impossible from anyone. Why so reluctant to answer a simple yes or no?

That is the test of faith. With God all things are possible. We can do all things through Christ who gives us His grace.

So God indeed asks us to do the impossible...but only what is impossible for men to do with their own strength without grace.

So your reasoning ignores grace. You are still under the law in your mind.

 

[Giuliano]

That is the test of faith. With God all things are possible. We can do all things through Christ who gives us His grace.

So God indeed asks us to do the impossible...but only what is impossible for men to do with their own strength without grace.

So your reasoning ignores grace. You are still under the law in your mind.

You weary me with your inaccurate representations of my views; but thanks for finally answering -- since it was possible for Israel to be holy or God wouldn't have told them to be. And I wouldn't say they could do it on their own. In fact, I happen to believe all good deeds are possible only through the Grace of God when men allow Him to work through them.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Just let any fear you have be expressed in a fear of not doing what God wants you to do. Remember that men called Jesus a devil. He simply continued following the will of the Father, once saying to his closest followers:

"...Will ye also go away?" John 6:67

As we know, Jesus had no intention of compromising to make them happy or to stop them from leaving him... and neither should you compromise what God has put in you heart to say or write.

You keep on following God's lead, never minding that everyone does not jump for joy nor cry in despair with you... and sometimes not even understand.

Sometimes I am right with you in what you write, while at other times I do not understand at all your meaning and cannot even read the whole post because I have lost the thought... or never had it. That is me and I believe it is all of us who at times have such a problem... for whatever reason. Don't let that worry either.

My old pastor [94 now] who I still meet with at least once a week often would read a verse of scripture to the congregation giving no explanation of why he read it. He understood his own meaning, but sometimes he did not bother to explain his meaning because he presumed all of those hearing him knew, as he knew, what he meant. He was wrong on this in himself, but sometimes God works through us in seemingly strange ways for His purpose. Eventually God gave me discernment regarding that old man so that I usually knew what he was really saying and when appropriate I was able to insert a little better understanding to his listeners when I was able to speak.

What I am saying is simply remember that even though you know what you mean, some interested readers may not. Try to help them, if you can. Citing another verse of scripture may clarify it for some but sometimes it will only muddy the waters worse. Sometimes reading the scriptures you may have noticed that the writer seems to repeat himself. What he does is say the same thing in a different way to help get his point across to the reader. It may make a long post even longer, but if it is worth saying and worth understanding, will it not be worth that extra effort? I believe God does have a work for you. If a post gets too long, you can always break it up into a couple of shorter posts. Communication is important. If God does have a work for you here, do it the best way that you can and ask Him for help. He will!

All excellent advice. Your pastor is blessed to have had you there with him which I’m sure he is aware of. I’m grateful for the sometimes you are there with me ...hoping for more times of that connection rather than the disconnect. The disconnect is me...as I’ve always struggled there but as you recommended I will definitely ask Him. Yes, all very needful direction from a brother ...thank you.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

blinded on purpose, to benefit the Gentiles, no?

Not exactly. Israel was not cut off for the purpose of giving benefit to the gentiles. Israel was cut off because of unbelief And that did benefit the gentiles because they got the bread that was meant for Israel.

 

[Episkopos]

You weary me with your inaccurate representations of my views; but thanks for finally answering -- since it was possible for Israel to be holy or God wouldn't have told them to be. And I wouldn't say they could do it on their own. In fact, I happen to believe all good deeds are possible only through the Grace of God when men allow Him to work through them.

Again you revert to carnal strength....and without knowing it. Your viewpoint is summed up in the hyper-dispensational heresy.

You deny the spiritual life and power to be One with God and walk without sin. You deny that God can do the impossible in us when we show Him we trust fully in Him.

You deny that Jesus came to us to empower us to walk as He walked...exactly the same.

So you limit yourself...and worse...others...to walking as carnal men. You limit God to trying to make us do things in our own strength and with our own understanding.

So you have missed the new Covenant entirely.

Of course you will never admit to such a clear thought. You would use a more advantageous lingo...but this would be just expressing the same things I have stated.

 

[Giuliano]

Not exactly. Israel was not cut off for the purpose of giving benefit to the gentiles. Israel was cut off because of unbelief And that did benefit the gentiles because they got the bread that was meant for Israel.

I read it differently. Could the world have been reconciled if Israel had not been cast away temporarily?

Romans 11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

 

[Giuliano]

Again you revert to carnal strength....and without knowing it. Your viewpoint is summed up in the hyper-dispensational heresy.

You deny the spiritual life and power to be One with God and walk without sin. You deny that God can do the impossible in us when we show Him we trust fully in Him.

You deny that Jesus came to us to empower us to walk as He walked...exactly the same.

So you limit yourself...and worse...others...to walking as carnal men. You limit God to trying to make us do things in our own strength and with our own understanding.

So you have missed the new Covenant entirely.

Of course you will never admit to such a clear thought. You would use a more advantageous lingo...but this would be just expressing the same things I have stated.

What are you talking about?

What you call a "clear thought" is a misrepresentation of my beliefs that exists solely in your mind. I wrote, "all good deeds are possible only through the Grace of God when men allow Him to work through them" and you distort that to "walking as carnal men." I think you may be losing your mind.

 

[Episkopos]

What are you raving about?

What you call a "clear thought" is a misrepresentation of my beliefs that exists solely in your mind. I wrote, "all good deeds are possible only through the Grace of God when men allow Him to work through them" and you distort that to "walking as carnal men." I think you may be losing your mind.

The mind of Christ is only attainable when we let our own way of thinking go. So what seems foolish to the carnal mind....the truth...makes perfect sense in the mind that has been freed from the limitations of the human intellect. The truth passes to us through faith.

Dispensationalism...let alone hyper-dispensationalism...is just carnal thoughts being imposed on the biblical narrative to explain away the words of Jesus. Same words...but entirely different meaning. It is the carnal trying to make sense of the spiritual...and negating the truth in the process.

So your use of bible words are a whole covenant away...a whole realm away from their actual meaning.

Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. Judaism is obsolete...and also the idea of the Jews being God's chosen people.

Anything that Jesus speaks of...apart from righteousness...is impossible for men to do. To be perfect and holy as God is perfect and holy. No man can attain to that standard with their own hearts and minds. It is impossible.

But what God has commanded he also empowers us to do. Enter the New Covenant...a new and living way where we walk in the grace of Jesus.

So then if it is possible for men to do...it is the OLD covenant. But if it is only possible by the resurrection life of Jesus empowering a new quickened life in us...then it is the NEW covenant.

The faith OF Jesus Christ makes us do impossible things...the whole walk is impossible for the carnal man...but in Christ we walk as He walked...otherwise it is in carnal strength.

 

[Giuliano]

The mind of Christ is only attainable when we let our own way of thinking go. So what seems foolish to the carnal mind....the truth...makes perfect sense in the mind that has been freed from the limitations of the human intellect. The truth passes to us through faith.

Dispensationalism...let alone hyper-dispensationalism...is just carnal thoughts being imposed on the biblical narrative to explain away the words of Jesus. Same words...but entirely different meaning. It is the carnal trying to make sense of the spiritual...and negating the truth in the process.

So your use of bible words are a whole covenant away...a whole realm away from their actual meaning.

Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. Judaism is obsolete...and also the idea of the Jews being God's chosen people.

Anything that Jesus speaks of...apart from righteousness...is impossible for men to do. To be perfect and holy as God is perfect and holy. No man can attain to that standard with their own hearts and minds. It is impossible.

But what God has commanded he also empowers us to do. Enter the New Covenant...a new and living way where we walk in the grace of Jesus.

So then if it is possible for men to do...it is the OLD covenant. But if it is only possible by the resurrection life of Jesus empowering a new quickened life in us...then it is the NEW covenant.

I don't think you're even reading my posts.

 

[Episkopos]

I don't think you're even reading my posts.

Backwards. You are not reading mine...and then projecting your own distractions unto me. So you are smokescreening so that you don't have to see the difference of Jesus Christ coming to earth.

try actually responding to what I'm saying the Holy Spirit is doing.

Did Jesus come to just tell us to do what we already could?

And besides do you not fully ignore Jesus and what He said?

 

[Giuliano]

Backwards. You are not reading mine...and then projecting your own distractions unto me. So you are smokescreening so that you don't have to see the difference of Jesus Christ coming to earth.

try actually responding to what I'm saying the Holy Spirit is doing.

Did Jesus come to just tell us to do what we already could?

And besides do you not fully ignore Jesus and what He said?

I think I will stop reading your posts.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

The faith OF Jesus Christ makes us do impossible things...the whole walk is impossible for the carnal man...but in Christ we walk as He walked...otherwise it is in carnal strength.

Ah, this phrase always throws me into a tailspin. The faith OF Jesus...I think sometimes that I will never grasp what is meant by it. I think sometime back that I did grasp it, but I've lost it again as if I never did grasp it at all...

 

[Episkopos]

Ah, this phrase always throws me into a tailspin. The faith OF Jesus...I think sometimes that I will never grasp what is meant by it. I think sometime back that I did grasp it, but I've lost it again as if I never did grasp it at all...

In order to distinguish life before Jesus came to earth....and after. Jesus changed history forever...by adding in a new realm, a new life. An alternate reality called "the truth." (Of course that reality IS the truth)

So we live in a shadow world where our brains are trying to figure things out...until...we come into the light of truth.

Now we can have visions of the truth and sparks of enlightenment. But to remain there is the fulness of that walk...the high calling, as it were.

Being in THAT realm gives us THAT new set of faculties...to see as He saw and walk as He walked. So in THAT anointing there is a new higher kind of faith....just like there is a new higher way of seeing. It is life on a higher spiritual plane. Really a new higher form of humanity where we no longer walk in the animal faculties of fallen men.

A human faith goes with a human level walk. But the faith OF Christ is available to they who are IN Christ. We take on His capacities when we are IN Him. That's how we know that we abide in Him...that we walk as He walked.

1 John 2:6
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I read it differently. Could the world have been reconciled if Israel had not been cast away temporarily?

Romans 11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

Consider the woman who approached Christ and He told her the children’s bread was not to be cast to dogs. One beautiful thing about God (imo) is how He destroys His enemies is not the way we destroy them. Dogs were to tear. What did God do in casting them bread?

Power to become the Sons of God ...at times it is hard to love those who love us and even impossible to love those who do a tremendous ill will towards us. Not only (imo) was Israel cast off for reconciling the world to God...but also for those obeying the Spirit in mercy to receive them ...as you quoted Life from the dead. Romans 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

It is better to give than receive.

Hosea 6:6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

Does God change?

 

[bbyrd009]

You give your opinion, and it's mere opinion. Ask a Rabbi about that passage.

And take it up with Paul since he's the one who said all Israel will be saved.

not all who are born Israel are of Israel though right

love your avatar btw

 

[stunnedbygrace]

In order to distinguish life before Jesus came to earth....and after. Jesus changed history forever...by adding in a new realm, a new life. An alternate reality called "the truth." (Of course that reality IS the truth)

So we live in a shadow world where our brains are trying to figure things out...until...we come into the light of truth.

Now we can have visions of the truth and sparks of enlightenment. But to remain there is the fulness of that walk...the high calling, as it were.

Being in THAT realm gives us THAT new set of faculties...to see as He saw and walk as He walked. So in THAT anointing there is a new higher kind of faith....just like there is a new higher way of seeing. It is life on a higher spiritual plane. Really a new higher form of humanity where we no longer walk in the animal faculties of fallen men.

A human faith goes with a human level walk. But the faith OF Christ is available to they who are IN Christ. We take on His capacities when we are IN Him. That's how we know that we abide in Him...that we walk as He walked.

1 John 2:6
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Ty for trying...

 

[stunnedbygrace]

not all who are born Israel are of Israel though right

love your avatar btw

And that's the verse that signals it. Not all of Israel is actually Israel according to God.