Y do U believe what U believe, and do U have good reasons 4 those beliefs? - let's find out.

[Nancy]

another good search imo,
"why are seventh day adventists so depressing"
Beyond Just Depressed - Adventist Youth Ministries - NAD
NAD of Seventh-day Adventists Youth & Young Adult Ministries. ... If so, you are not just down – you are suffering from depression. Three out of ten teens with depression get involved with drugs or alcohol. Twelve out of ...

aw, dang. Guess i gotta go rip some curtains down. We got one of these puss-holes right here in town too, and i gotta say i already felt bad for the kids, all look like they wanna jump out a window. Dang, what to do, not really interested tbh

Why Adventist Pastors Get Depressed — NAD Ministerial
"
Because They Are Hiding

I am convinced that a primary cause of depression among Adventists is our emphasis on performance. It’s hard to deny that our emphasis on commandment keeping and holy living can at times tip the scales into legalism. And legalism is a recipe for depression.

Legalism is the conviction that only those who perfectly obey are accepted by God. It’s a trap, because given that definition, you can never do enough. You can never experience the joy of full acceptance. And of course, to admit weakness is to acknowledge sin, which is further proof that you’re not saved or safe. So, they hide.

The remedy? Grace. A life-long study and experience of God’s unmerited favor.

Paul said, “For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.” Romans 3:28

Paul said, “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith, not by works so that no one can boast. Ephesians 2:8-9

Does this diminish the call for works? No at all. It places them in their proper place, which is critical for those struggling with spiritual depression. Grace turns legalism on its head. Legalism says, “I obey; therefore, I am accepted.” Grace says, “I’m accepted; therefore, I obey!” Big difference.

Wow...I actually understood your whole post here Mark!!!
I did not know about the prevalence of depression within the SDA's.

 

[amadeus]

@ReChoired Your challenge as laid out in this thread , in challenging people to justify from scripture what they believe, has uncovered what is so predominant in modern Christianity., and what I discovered on this and many other forums several years ago...that there is a powerful influence of spiritualism in modern Christian thought.

Saul/Paul the apostle was a thinker and a well educated man in the scriptures. He apparently knew the scriptures very well when he was deeply involved in persecuting believers in and followers of Jesus, having them thrown into prison and killed. With all his scriptural knowledge he was really working against God until he met Jesus on the road to Damascus. His repentance did not come from studying the Bible and knowing it well. It came after he met the Master. Was that meeting not a spiritual experience rather than a studied conclusion?

Your words about 'spiritualism' seem to indicate that you believe being spiritual (or is it too spiritual?) is not and/or could not be a good thing. Were Zechariah's words not for us because they are OT?

"... This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts." Zech 4:6

Has God changed since that was written? Has the Word of the LORD changed since that was written?

Your citing scripture and asking questions cuts deep and I hope the people here do not react with anger, cynicism, or animosity just because you challenge them to think.

Are you implying that thinking is more important than communication and connection with God and love for God? Good thinking may not be an evil thing, but it is certainly no assurance of pleasing God or of approaching God. Are the best students the best followers of God and His Son? Where does it say that in the scriptures?

"Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
This is the first and great commandment.
And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." Matt 22:37-40

Will obeying the two greatest commandments as per Jesus make a man think better? Perhaps, but if we must first think better, is that not putting the cart before the horse?

What does Jesus say to do first?

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matt 6:33

How does one seek the kingdom of God? By studying the Bible and/or by thinking and reasoning things out?

I don't think you will find that written in the Bible as being the pathway to God... What Paul's penned words say are for us to study to be approved... not to learn.

"Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." II Tim 2:15

What still does apply to one who simply studies the Bible without talking to God or praying or asking for His help and without getting into His Spirit is this as I have understood it:

"And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh." Ecc 12:12

We may well learn some things in our study of the scriptures, but if we are not properly directed by the Holy Spirit, why would we be better in our knowledge than an atheist who has learned his lessons well by studying the scriptures for his own purposes rather than to come to know God?

 

[Nancy]

Saul/Paul the apostle was a thinker and a well educated man in the scriptures. He apparently knew the scriptures very well when he was deeply involved in the persecuting the believers in and followers of Jesus, having them thrown into prison and killed. With all his scriptural knowledge he was really working against God until he met Jesus on the road to Damascus. His repentance did not come from studying the Bible and knowing it well. It came after he met the Master. Was that meeting not a spiritual experience rather than a studied conclusion?

Your words about 'spiritualism' seem to indicate that you believe being spiritual (or is it too spiritual?) is not and/or could not be a good thing. Were Zechariah's words not for us because they are OT?

"... This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts." Zech 4:6

Has God changed since that was written? Has the Word of the LORD changed since that was written?


Are you implying that thinking is more important than communication and connection with God and love for God? Good thinking may not be an evil thing, but it is certainly no assurance of pleasing God or of approaching God. Are the best students the best followers of God and His Son? Where does it say that in the scriptures?

"Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
This is the first and great commandment.
And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." Matt 22:37-40

Will obeying the two greatest commandments as per Jesus make a man think better? Perhaps, but if we must first think better, is that not putting the cart before the horse?

What does Jesus say to do first?

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matt 6:33

How does one seek the kingdom of God? By studying the Bible and/or by thinking and reasoning things out?

I don't think you will find that written in the Bible as being the pathway to God... What Paul's penned words say are for us to study to be approved... not to learn.

"Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." II Tim 2:15

What still does apply to one who simply studies the Bible without talking to God or praying or asking for His help and without getting into His Spirit is this as I have understood it:

"And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh." Ecc 12:12

We may well learn some things in our study of the scriptures, but if we are not properly directed by the Holy Spirit, why would we be better in our knowledge than an atheist who has learned his lessons well by studying the scriptures for his own purposes rather than to come to know God?

Good word John,
This reminds me of the scripture: 2 Timothy 3:5-7
"5 holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these. 6 For among them are those who enter into households and captivate weak women weighed down with sins, led on by various impulses, 7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth."
this is something that can bring on fear as, it is NOT a place I want to be...yet...I also wonder, is this speaking about myself? I sure hope not! We should crave His truth, His wholeness every day and, trust that He WILL bring us into all truth through the guidance of His Spirit!

 

[amadeus]

Good word John,
This reminds me of the scripture: 2 Timothy 3:5-7
"5 holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these. 6 For among them are those who enter into households and captivate weak women weighed down with sins, led on by various impulses, 7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth."
this is something that can bring on fear as, it is NOT a place I want to be...yet...I also wonder, is this speaking about myself? I sure hope not! We should crave His truth, His wholeness every day and, trust that He WILL bring us into all truth through the guidance of His Spirit!

Amen! Every day and every moment is what is needed. God recognizing our limitations has a lot of mercy on us, but we must still keeping on trying to do better. Without Him it is impossible, but without effort on our part, He will NOT fill in the gaps left because of our limitations.

 

[Nancy]

Amen! Every day and every moment is what is needed. God recognizing our limitations has a lot of mercy on us, but we must still keeping on trying to do better. Without Him it is impossible, but without effort on our part, He will NOT fill in the gaps left because of our limitations.

"...but we must still keeping on trying to do better."
Yep! Cannot fall OUT of this race set before us.

 

[bbyrd009]

Wow...I actually understood your whole post here Mark!!!
I did not know about the prevalence of depression within the SDA's.

well, gotta admit i did, not something i meant to use as a bludgeon or anything though
i really think its the over-emphasizing the ritual sabbath, which has an irl, meaningful counterpart that mostly gets ignored by them i guess; as the frequent references to Legalism indicate. Tbh i dont think sdas are any more enamored of their own opinions than any group, including me.

And i have already revealed my interp of no male or female in the kingdom, so i feel free to say that while imo following a literal woman is not necessarily bad, and i am more sabbatarian than they are even imo--dont goto cong on Sat, etc, as that would involve a journey--i would sure be checking the leader for...emotional attachment to their perspectives? So iow if i cared or were still sda curious, i would be digging into MaryBEddy or that doesnt sound right but whoever she is for clues on that, iow ignoring the doctrinal stuff and finding the backstory. True Believers® just make me oogy, mostly bc i was one for a long while i guess

 

[bbyrd009]

His repentance did not come from studying the Bible and knowing it well. It came after he met the Master. Was that meeting not a spiritual experience rather than a studied conclusion?

Your words about 'spiritualism' seem to indicate that you believe being spiritual (or is it too spiritual?) is not and/or could not be a good thing. Were Zechariah's words not for us because they are OT?

yeh, i noticed that in bl's last post to me too, some unusual understanding @ literal/spiritual i didnt get.
But as we have witnessed sda s are big on digging ditches for others; imo they just fall into them, as prophesied

not that we dont witness that yack in every other denom, too tho; but trust me, to the vast majority of practicing sda s, if you arent sda, you are goin strate ta hail lol. The rest leave in a short time i guess, apparently to the tune of like 42% annually

Are you implying that thinking is more important than communication and connection with God and love for God? Good thinking may not be an evil thing, but it is certainly no assurance of pleasing God or of approaching God. Are the best students the best followers of God and His Son? Where does it say that in the scriptures?

word

if knowledge was the answer, rich ppl and satan would be first, as has been noted many times

What Paul's penned words say are for us to study to be approved... not to learn.

and Paul is usually read to ppls destruction too right

We may well learn some things in our study of the scriptures, but if we are not properly directed by the Holy Spirit, why would we be better in our knowledge than an atheist who has learned his lessons well by studying the scriptures for his own purposes rather than to come to know God?

man a that post deserves about 6 likes imo

 

[bbyrd009]

"if true knowledge was the key, the devil would be in." The amazing name Nicodemus: meaning and etymology

 

[bbyrd009]

Jesus - In Hebrew -
yiśrâ'êl
yis-raw-ale'
From H8280 and H410; he will rule as God; Jisrael, a symbolical name of Jacob; also (typically) of his posterity: - Israel.
Jesus would rule as God, a symbolical name of Jacob

so, this is kinda what i was talking about; i get no reply, bc you cant, or what? It comes across as denial wadr

 

[ReChoired]

Says you!!

And we are supposed to sit here and believe what you say just because you flood scripture verses at us.
I got you number ten pages back!!

Well the statement was made about what we (Seventh-day Adventists) teach, and it was incorrectly stated. I then proceeded to give the accurate position which the Seventh-day Adventists teach on hell in very brief. The point of the response was not to make anyone agree with the theological position we hold to, but simply to state what we do hold to.

If you desire to consider the verses in scripture on hell, and on annihilation, we can. Do you? This is an invitation to do so, not a command.

 

[ReChoired]

Ellen G. White (1827–1915), the founder ...

The statement that Ellen G White is "the founder" of the Seventh-day Adventist movement is incorrect. She was one of the original members that is for certain, but definitely not "the founder". I would ask that you please correct your historical position. Thank you.

 

[ReChoired]

Wow...I actually understood your whole post here Mark!!!
I did not know about the prevalence of depression within the SDA's.

I wonder if any have read Jeremiah, Lamentations, or Job, or David (Psalms) and Solomon (Ecclesiastes), or if they have ever heard of the man of sorrows?

 

[ReChoired]

...Yep! Cannot fall OUT of this race set before us.

Are you indicating that a person cannot leave the relationship with Christ forever if they choose to do so? (I am asking, do you believe in OSAS?) Thank you.

 

[ReChoired]

Well, I can see nothing in The Word about "soul sleep"

Really? That is interesting, as I have seen it from Genesis to Revelation. Can we compare some scriptures together on it then?

and I also believe the day we worship God should not matter ...

Interesting also, as I have seen that God is particular, in everything. Why do you presently hold such a position?

, and there is so much controversy concerning "The Lord's Day".

I do not know of any such controversy. I only know of those who go to the Bible to get the definition, and those who turn to men apart from scripture to define it.

As far as eating meat or dairy products...even though I DO understand the health benefits of doing this, I do not see it as a "law" to be followed for Christians.

Yeah, it is health benefit, but I was attempting to share the dangers that God foretold in continuing to eat those things. If people see the evidence, and desire the diseases that come with eating it, well, that is their own prerogative, though warning was lovingly provided.

EGW, is another matter altogether.

I see Ellen G White as one of the messengers of God, just as Moses, Daniel, Malachi, John the Baptist, etc., so from this perspective, we would still be speaking about prophecy, the gift of prophecy, and prophets which are all scriptural matters.

Allegations of many plagiarized writings that have not been proven wrong at this time.

Actually it has been proven wrong, a long time ago, if you may see - http://sdamaranathachurch.org/wp-co...giarism-Charges-Proved-False-Ramik-Report.pdf

A lawyer provided the report from a legal perspective.

In matters of material which is the same, the writers of scripture made no such distinction, for truth came from God. Examples could be provided from scripture if you would like.

Predictions of the END being wrong...

Really? I have never read any such prophecy from sister White that was in error. Could you be more specific? Remember, this is the point of this thread. I do not mind being challenged on what I believe.

I do not have time to dig into this stuff, at least not at this time.

It sounds like you have quite a list already though. You have been reading something, somewhere, though I can say it was not original source material or original research, just from the above statements. Yet, I do not take offence, as I find that most conversations start this way.

I was brought up to believe that the Word of God and Jesus Christ final revelation are all we need.

So, you are saying you are a cessationist? (In other words you believe that the gifts to the church have all ceased with the Revelation?) If so, may I share some things with you?

And, since I cannot cite a particular article or claim ...

Which, if I may so say, is a very poor position to take, and is quite indefensible, and without any merit. It would basically be hearsay and opinion, however, I am still willing to consider what you think on the matter, even if it be incorrect factually, historically, prophetically and so on.

If you need any assistance in finding a reference to the things you refer to above, let me know, and I will gladly dig for you, that we may all have the citations posted here.

, I should step back as, I do not want to just blab what many others do so...maybe later on today I could look into that.

Please do. I do not mind this conversation, as long as we do not leave things nebulous, but get specific and detailed.

Thanks for the reply and have a great day!!!

You are welcome, and thank you also sister.

Sorry so sparse...this is a huge subject.

From my perspective, not really. It is mostly re-hash of DMC's material found all over the internet.

 

[ReChoired]

... i am more sabbatarian than they are even imo--dont goto cong on Sat, etc, as that would involve a journey...

Jews travel on sabbath to reach the synagogue/gatherings, and so do Christians travel to reach their church/congregations on sabbath, and have been doing so for thousands of years.

Heb_10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

There is no injunction against doing so.

An example of the most Holy Ghost/Spirit filled man:

Luk 4:14 And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about.
Luk 4:15 And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all.
Luk 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
Luk 4:17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
Luk 4:19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Luk 4:20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
Luk 4:21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

 

[Invisibilis]

Y do U believe what U believe, and do U have good reasons 4 those beliefs?...

Some eighteen years ago, my love of my life wanted to leave. After the initial shock, I realized that my love for her was not based on self, but I simply loved her for who she is, and I was ever so grateful for the privilege of her being in my life for nearly ten years. I absolutely surrender to the love in my heart for her. It was the first time I truly experienced unconditional love. At that very moment, as I was staring at her face, her face disappeared, as if a hole appeared in our visible realm. There, in place of her face, I saw a simple light being looking straight back at me, with a surprise expression as if to say 'oh, you can see me'. Instantly, I realized that my whole life accounted for nothing, and who we really are is spirit, and I knew 'nothing' about the invisible world it is from. Truth is not what we see in the visible world, but in the invisible world. It is hidden in everything in the visible universe. With eyes wide open, I had a vision from the invisible world.

From that moment, everything in my life changed 180 degrees. I told the person, who wanted to leave, to go and do so. I realized that she was free to do whatever she wanted, and I had no right to think differently. I supported her to leave and explore the world she walks through. I was seeing everything around and in me becoming anew. Reborn completely. The old disappeared, and the new was rushing in with absolute clarity of truth.

She returned the next day, and the day after that, for about ten years. Each time she left to go home I was absolutely grateful for the privilege, and every time she came back it was totally unexpected, an absolute surprise to fall in love all over again.

This experience is still ongoing. There is nothing I could imagine that could alter my conviction of the Truth. I live to pray and meditate on the Truth daily. I am like a child who speaks to God before going to sleep. I love the Love that loves me.

I live alone now for many years. She moved to the other side of the planet, also loving the Love that loves her. She met a loving man and they married a few years later. We will be best of friends for ever, for Truth is our first love, and nothing can take that away from us.

This world has become a foreign place, full of distractions from the truth. I live a reclusive lifestyle. have not watched TV or listened to the radio or music for over ten years ( I don't even know who our prime minister's name). I love to live in silence. It gives me more time for fellowship with the Love that loves me. And as I already said, nothing can take that away from me.

 

[ReChoired]

... Legalism says, “I obey; therefore, I am accepted.” Grace says, “I’m accepted; therefore, I obey!” Big difference.

Sounds just like sister White quoting scripture!

"... Men need to learn that the blessings of obedience, in their fullness, can be theirs only as they receive the grace of Christ. It is His grace that gives man power to obey the laws of God. It is this that enables him to break the bondage of evil habit. This is the only power that can make him and keep him steadfast in the right path. {MH 115.1}

When the gospel is received in its purity and power, it is a cure for the maladies that originated in sin. The Sun of Righteousness arises, "with healing in His wings." Malachi 4:2. Not all this world bestows can heal a broken heart, or impart peace of mind, or remove care, or banish disease. Fame, genius, talent--all are powerless to gladden the sorrowful heart or to restore the wasted life. The life of God in the soul is man's only hope. {MH 115.2} ..." - Ministry of Healing, 115.1-115.2

"... A mere participation in religious services and ordinances does not make a sinner a Christian. A wicked man does not become righteous merely by associating with those who fear God. A man is made holy, and acceptable with God, only when his unclean heart is made clean by the grace of Christ, through faith, and by obedience to words of truth and righteousness. A work of reformation and restoration must take place in every heart. Those who have had great light and many privileges may perform some good works, notwithstanding their impenitence and their refusal to be saved in God's appointed way. But these good works do not cleanse the soul from corruption. Only those who accept the light of God's truth, choosing to obey him, will be cleansed from the defilement of sin. {RH, December 19, 1907 par. 11} ..." - The Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, December 19, 1907, par. 11

"... The transforming power of Christ's grace will mold the one who gives himself to God's service; for God is bound by an eternal pledge to supply power and grace to every one who yields himself to be sanctified by obedience to the truth. {RH, November 12, 1914 par. 3} ..." - - The Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, November 12, 1914, par. 3

"... "By grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God." Ephesians 2:8. Here is truth that will unfold the subject to your mind if you do not close it to the rays of light. Eternal life is an infinite gift. This places it outside the possibility of our earning it, because it is infinite. It must necessarily be a gift. As a gift it must be received by faith, and gratitude and praise be offered to God. Solid faith will not lead any one away into fanaticism or into acting the slothful servant. It is the bewitching power of Satan that leads men to look to themselves in the place of looking to Jesus. The righteousness of Christ must go before us if the glory of the Lord becomes our reward. If we do God's will we may accept large blessings as God's free gift, but not because of any merit in us; this is of no value. Do the work of Christ, and you will honor God and come off more than conquerors through Him that has loved us and given His life for us, that we should have life and salvation in Jesus Christ. - {1888 820.1} ..." - 1888 Materials, 820.1​

 

[Nancy]

Really? That is interesting, as I have seen it from Genesis to Revelation. Can we compare some scriptures together on it then?

Interesting also, as I have seen that God is particular, in everything. Why do you presently hold such a position?

I do not know of any such controversy. I only know of those who go to the Bible to get the definition, and those who turn to men apart from scripture to define it.

Yeah, it is health benefit, but I was attempting to share the dangers that God foretold in continuing to eat those things. If people see the evidence, and desire the diseases that come with eating it, well, that is their own prerogative, though warning was lovingly provided.

I see Ellen G White as one of the messengers of God, just as Moses, Daniel, Malachi, John the Baptist, etc., so from this perspective, we would still be speaking about prophecy, the gift of prophecy, and prophets which are all scriptural matters.

Actually it has been proven wrong, a long time ago, if you may see - http://sdamaranathachurch.org/wp-co...giarism-Charges-Proved-False-Ramik-Report.pdf

A lawyer provided the report from a legal perspective.

In matters of material which is the same, the writers of scripture made no such distinction, for truth came from God. Examples could be provided from scripture if you would like.

Really? I have never read any such prophecy from sister White that was in error. Could you be more specific? Remember, this is the point of this thread. I do not mind being challenged on what I believe.

It sounds like you have quite a list already though. You have been reading something, somewhere, though I can say it was not original source material or original research, just from the above statements. Yet, I do not take offence, as I find that most conversations start this way.

So, you are saying you are a cessationist? (In other words you believe that the gifts to the church have all ceased with the Revelation?) If so, may I share some things with you?

Which, if I may so say, is a very poor position to take, and is quite indefensible, and without any merit. It would basically be hearsay and opinion, however, I am still willing to consider what you think on the matter, even if it be incorrect factually, historically, prophetically and so on.

If you need any assistance in finding a reference to the things you refer to above, let me know, and I will gladly dig for you, that we may all have the citations posted here.

Please do. I do not mind this conversation, as long as we do not leave things nebulous, but get specific and detailed.

You are welcome, and thank you also sister.

From my perspective, not really. It is mostly re-hash of DMC's material found all over the internet.

Thanks for your info. If I were to try and decipher every question you have for me, I'd be on here for quite awhile and would never see those other posts that I come on here for. I have nothing against SDA's and have no desire to become overwhelmed with your laws as to prove or disprove them. I LOVE my Church and have no plans to stop attending...and since it is on a Sunday you most likely believe I will be going straight to Hell. Even if I came up with arguments you would just shoot them down anyhow so...let us be friends. I answered your initial OP and that should be enough. Please, I have no answers for you so let's just say what I know is all second hand, or things I might have come upon over the years in written form. All of this info is pretty overwhelming and I am a simple person, I enjoy my time on here I am not out to "prove" anybody wrong in their beliefs, it always ends up in a shooting match and you would win hands down with me so...why don't you find someone more versed in these subjects? I'm sure they would love to refute you, I would not. You seem like a nice guy who loves the Lord and want's to cross all T's and dot all I's. I'm no scholar. God Bless you and keep you.
nancy

 

[Nancy]

Are you indicating that a person cannot leave the relationship with Christ forever if they choose to do so? (I am asking, do you believe in OSAS?) Thank you.

Of course people can leave His side and wander off, and no I am not a OSAS person. We can and do fall yet, if we are His, then we will get back up and continue on, no matter the cost.

 

[Nancy]

I wonder if any have read Jeremiah, Lamentations, or Job, or David (Psalms) and Solomon (Ecclesiastes), or if they have ever heard of the man of sorrows?

I know that Elijah, David, Job, Moses, Jeremiah became depressed. And, of course we know who The Man Of Sorrows in Isaiah is...Christ Himself. I myself suffer with it as do many preachers and teachers. Was simply replying to bbyrds post and did not know it was so prevalent in your Church.