Y do U believe what U believe, and do U have good reasons 4 those beliefs? - let's find out.

[ReChoired]

I LOVE my Church and have no plans to stop attending...and since it is on a Sunday you most likely believe I will be going straight to Hell.

What gives you the impression that the Seventh-day Adventist movement, sister White, or myself teaches such a thing? Seriously. Just some actual citations:

"... But Christians of past generations observed the Sunday, supposing that in so doing they were keeping the Bible Sabbath; and there are now true Christians in every church, not excepting the Roman Catholic communion, who honestly believe that Sunday is the Sabbath of divine appointment. God accepts their sincerity of purpose and their integrity before Him. ..." - GC, 449.1

"... Among the Catholics there are many who are most conscientious Christians, and who walk in all the light that shines upon them, and God will work in their behalf. ..." - Testimonies, vol. 9, pp. 241-244. (1909)

"... There are many among the Catholics who live up to the light they have far better than many who claim to believe present [41] truth, and God will just as surely test and prove them as He has tested and proved us. And just according to their willingness to stand the testing, of whatever character it may be, will be their accountability before God. From that which God has shown me, a great number will be saved from among the Catholics. ..." - 2 SAT, 40.4
​

Martin Luther will be in Heaven, and Tyndale, and Huss and Jerome, and Wycliffe, Wesleys, Wishart, etc.

 

[ReChoired]

I know that Elijah, David, Job, Moses, Jeremiah became depressed. And, of course we know who The Man Of Sorrows in Isaiah is...Christ Himself. I myself suffer with it as do many preachers and teachers. Was simply replying to bbyrds post and did not know it was so prevalent in your Church.

It is prevalent in this end of days as the Holy Ghost is being withdrawn from the earth.

 

[ReChoired]

Thanks for your info.

You are welcome. You'll find the resources here - https://sdamaranathachurch.org/resources/library-of-resources

... I answered your initial OP and that should be enough. Please, I have no answers for you ...

As you will. Thank you for spending some time with me here.

... You seem like a nice guy who loves the Lord and want's to cross all T's and dot all I's.

Guilty.

I'm no scholar.

Neither am I. Just a common no one that Jesus found.

Dod Bless you and keep you.
nancy

Accepted. Thank you. May you have the light of Christ Jesus to continually guide you home.

 

[Nancy]

What gives you the impression that the Seventh-day Adventist movement, sister White, or myself teaches such a thing? Seriously. Just some actual citations:

"... But Christians of past generations observed the Sunday, supposing that in so doing they were keeping the Bible Sabbath; and there are now true Christians in every church, not excepting the Roman Catholic communion, who honestly believe that Sunday is the Sabbath of divine appointment. God accepts their sincerity of purpose and their integrity before Him. ..." - GC, 449.1

"... Among the Catholics there are many who are most conscientious Christians, and who walk in all the light that shines upon them, and God will work in their behalf. ..." - Testimonies, vol. 9, pp. 241-244. (1909)

"... There are many among the Catholics who live up to the light they have far better than many who claim to believe present [41] truth, and God will just as surely test and prove them as He has tested and proved us. And just according to their willingness to stand the testing, of whatever character it may be, will be their accountability before God. From that which God has shown me, a great number will be saved from among the Catholics. ..." - 2 SAT, 40.4
​

Martin Luther will be in Heaven, and Tyndale, and Huss and Jerome, and Wycliffe, Wesleys, Wishart, etc.

I know you say I am a cessation and, I'm sure I am according to many. I see Gods Word as the FINALITY of all we need to know, right up to the very end. To me, a Prophet of God simply is a person who is very bold in The Lord and who only speaks what The Word tells them. As far as the other "sensational" gifts...healing as Jesus did, I know not one single person who has this gift, if this were still for today, why are our hospitals still full to the brim, if this is a true gift for today, I can only say that (MY OWN THOUGHTS HERE) it would be taking place in the poorer countries and not the Western world. Our faith here in the "rich" land have not the faith of some of the 3rd world countries...we are spoiled and "think we are rich..." I do not limit God, He can do anything He wants...I just do not see these sensational miracles happening, and neither do the many Christians I do know because, well, they are not happening here. I see a lot of phoney's out there though. Yes, I'm a sola scriptura gal and will not apologize for it.

2 Timothy 3:16-17
16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works."

Revelation 22:18
"I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll."

 

[ReChoired]

... Yes, I'm a sola scriptura gal and will not apologize for it.

2 Timothy 3:16-17
16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works."

Revelation 22:18
"I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll."

Sola scriptura does not exclude "prophets", "angels", "messengers", "animals", "nature", "voices from heaven", "visions", "dreams", etc as scripture details. They are included in sola scriptura, as the Bible teaches God speaks through those.

You do realize that the Book of Revelation was not the last book written? the Epistles and Gospel of John were.

I can also show you, documentation of miraculous healings, and also prophecies that God gave through people throughout history that came true.

"... A familiar acquaintance with the Scriptures sharpens the discerning powers, and fortifies the soul against the attacks of Satan. The Bible is the sword of the Spirit, which will never fail to vanquish the adversary. It is the only true guide in all matters of faith and practice. ..." - The Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, January 4, 1881, par. 27

"... The Bible, and the Bible alone, is the rule of faith and practice. ..." - 1888 Materials, page 1532.2

"... The Bible is our Counselor, and is to be obeyed. ..." - 13MR (No. 1027), page 191.1

"... The truth of the Christian religion depends upon the divine authority of the word of God. ..." - Paulson Collection, page 110.7

"... We should not allow any argument of man's to turn us away from a thorough investigation of Bible truth. The opinions and customs of men are not to be received as of divine authority. God has revealed in his word what is the whole duty of man, and we are not to be swayed from the great standard of righteousness. He sent his only begotten Son to be our example, and bade us to hear and to follow him. We must not be influenced from the truth as it is in Jesus, because great and professedly good men urge their ideas above the plain statements of the word of God. {RH, July 17, 1888 par. 12} ..." - The Advent Review and Sabbath Herald, July 17, 1888, par. 12

"... My cry has been, Investigate the Scriptures for yourselves, and know for yourselves what saith the Lord. No man is to be authority for us. If he has received his light from the Bible, so may we also go to the same source for light and proof to substantiate the doctrines which we believe. The Scriptures teach that we should give a reason of the hope that is within us with meekness and fear. . . . {9MR 217.2} ..." - 9MR (No. 731), page 217.2

"... Truth, Bible truth, is to become the authority for the conscience and the love and life of the soul. {10MR 315.4} ..." - 10MR (No. 829), page 315.4

"... The Word of God is your counselor; the Word of God is your authority. Be very careful how you bring anything weaker to take its place...." - 14MR (1109), page 186.1

"... Christ rebuked these practices in His day. He taught that the word of God was to be understood by all. He pointed to the Scriptures as of unquestionable authority, and we should do the same. The Bible is to be presented as the word of the infinite God, as [40] the end of all controversy and the foundation of all faith. {COL 39.1} ..." - Christ Object Lessons, page 39.1​

 

[Helen]

Well the statement was made about what we (Seventh-day Adventists) teach, and it was incorrectly stated. I then proceeded to give the accurate position which the Seventh-day Adventists teach on hell in very brief. The point of the response was not to make anyone agree with the theological position we hold to, but simply to state what we do hold to.

If you desire to consider the verses in scripture on hell, and on annihilation, we can. Do you? This is an invitation to do so, not a command.

I believe in OSAS

But we have had many threads on the subject ...so no..everyone will just groan if we have another one this soon!! LOL

 

[Helen]

If you desire to consider the verses in scripture on hell, and on annihilation, we can.

Trouble is I doubt very much that what you call "considering" and what I call it are two different things.

I have already posted to bbyrd009 in #270 that I no longer play that game.

I've seen a preacher take an hour and for 30 mins 'proved' by using cherry picked verses that sinners hell fire forever.
Then, for the next 30 mins he 'proved' by using cherry picked scriptures that God intends and will save everyone in the end.

The 'scripture game' is a waste of time.
We have threads which are up to 1500 post and more , round and round the arguments go...one has their favourite verses and the other uses theres.
I used to play that game...I've been on many forums over the 18 years of 'forum life' I wont do it any more. But, some obviously like it.

Blessings Helen

So I believe it would be pointless.

Question:-
Have you come to Christianity Board to just push what SDA believe, or are you going to join in any other discussions ? ( after you are not so busy on this thread)

We have quite a few SDA on here which have been here years...but they are just part of the membership...they join in all the threads...

Just saying....H

 

[Nancy]

Trouble is I doubt very much that what you call "considering" and what I call it are two different things.

I have already posted to bbyrd009 in #270 that I no longer play that game.


So I believe it would be pointless.

Question:-
Have you come to Christianity Board to just push what SDA believe, or are you going to join in any other discussions ? ( after you are not so busy on this thread)

We have quite a few SDA on here which have been here years...but they are just part of the membership...they join in all the threads...

Just saying....H

"We have quite a few SDA on here which have been here years...but they are just part of the membership...they join in all the threads..."

Makes me wonder where @Phoneman777 has been!

 

[brakelite]

another good search imo,
"why are seventh day adventists so depressing"
Beyond Just Depressed - Adventist Youth Ministries - NAD
NAD of Seventh-day Adventists Youth & Young Adult Ministries. ... If so, you are not just down – you are suffering from depression. Three out of ten teens with depression get involved with drugs or alcohol. Twelve out of ...

aw, dang. Guess i gotta go rip some curtains down. We got one of these puss-holes right here in town too, and i gotta say i already felt bad for the kids, all look like they wanna jump out a window. Dang, what to do, not really interested tbh

Why Adventist Pastors Get Depressed — NAD Ministerial
"
Because They Are Hiding

I am convinced that a primary cause of depression among Adventists is our emphasis on performance. It’s hard to deny that our emphasis on commandment keeping and holy living can at times tip the scales into legalism. And legalism is a recipe for depression.

Legalism is the conviction that only those who perfectly obey are accepted by God. It’s a trap, because given that definition, you can never do enough. You can never experience the joy of full acceptance. And of course, to admit weakness is to acknowledge sin, which is further proof that you’re not saved or safe. So, they hide.

The remedy? Grace. A life-long study and experience of God’s unmerited favor.

Paul said, “For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.” Romans 3:28

Paul said, “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith, not by works so that no one can boast. Ephesians 2:8-9

Does this diminish the call for works? No at all. It places them in their proper place, which is critical for those struggling with spiritual depression. Grace turns legalism on its head. Legalism says, “I obey; therefore, I am accepted.” Grace says, “I’m accepted; therefore, I obey!” Big difference.

Okay, some perspective. Both articles are written by Adventists and published in Adventist magazines. The first article written for youth top give them a better understanding of what depression is all about. The figures given are not figures that reflect the church, but general society. My wife suffers from depression as a result of childhood ptsd. I understand what the article of saying..I have seen that in real life...and its great that the church is making their young people aware of the illness, what the symptoms are, and how to deal with it. I'm disappointed Mark that you seem to be suggesting that those numbers reflect the church itself. You've cherry picked some parts of the articles and fudged them into a post that offers a headline skewed to reflect your own bias. Good liberal journalism in action.
The second article is a candid admission that there is an issue with depression in our church. And an honest confession as to why. But remember, what its saying and what it isn't saying. It is saying that some on our church misunderstand our own teachings..misunderstand grace. What it its not saying is that our teachings on grace are wrong. Nor is it suggesting that depression is an issue within our church any more than any other institution or the world itself. Those numbers @Nancy do not reflect the numbers of pastors in our church that suffer from depression.

 

[Nancy]

Okay, some perspective. Both articles are written by Adventists and published in Adventist magazines. The first article written for youth top give them a better understanding of what depression is all about. The figures given are not figures that reflect the church, but general society. My wife suffers from depression as a result of childhood ptsd. I understand what the article of saying..I have seen that in real life...and its great that the church is making their young people aware of the illness, what the symptoms are, and how to deal with it. I'm disappointed Mark that you seem to be suggesting that those numbers reflect the church itself. You've cherry picked some parts of the articles and fudged them into a post that offers a headline skewed to reflect your own bias. Good liberal journalism in action.
The second article is a candid admission that there is an issue with depression in our church. And an honest confession as to why. But remember, what its saying and what it isn't saying. It is saying that some on our church misunderstand our own teachings..misunderstand grace. What it its not saying is that our teachings on grace are wrong. Nor is it suggesting that depression is an issue within our church any more than any other institution or the world itself. Those numbers @Nancy do not reflect the numbers of pastors in our church that suffer from depression.

Had to wonder about that, then I remember reading about an over all depression that ALL pastors can suffer from. They have an awful lot on their plates. And, I too can suffer from depression...I do not cotton to those who down play this serious condition! Man/woman of God or not...we are still broken people in a broken world...for now ❤

 

[ReChoired]

Trouble is I doubt very much that what you call "considering" and what I call it are two different things.

Just reading your responses, it seems you like to make a lot of future predictions. Are you a prophet?

... So I believe it would be pointless.

You are not an optimist?

Question:-
Have you come to Christianity Board to just push what SDA believe, or are you going to join in any other discussions ? ( after you are not so busy on this thread)

The thread and OP have to do with what we all believe. My beliefs are tested, and others. All beliefs are being tested by scripture here. It is just that I have found that some do not desire to be tested.

We have quite a few SDA on here which have been here years

What does that have to do with this thread and its OP?

...but they are just part of the membership...they join in all the threads...

I just began here, and surely we must all begin somewhere, yes? It takes time. I just opened another thread on prophecy:

Prophetic Chart from beginning unto the ending, Prophetic studies

The threads I read when I signed up were rather uninteresting to me, though some of the people are interesting.

Just saying....H

Just replying.

 

[ReChoired]

I believe in OSAS...

Sorry to hear that. It makes the character of JEHOVAH Elohiym into a monster of the worst imagined hell, but just so long as you're happy with the presumptuous teaching.

 

[brakelite]

Saul/Paul the apostle was a thinker and a well educated man in the scriptures. He apparently knew the scriptures very well when he was deeply involved in persecuting believers in and followers of Jesus, having them thrown into prison and killed. With all his scriptural knowledge he was really working against God until he met Jesus on the road to Damascus. His repentance did not come from studying the Bible and knowing it well. It came after he met the Master. Was that meeting not a spiritual experience rather than a studied conclusion?

Your words about 'spiritualism' seem to indicate that you believe being spiritual (or is it too spiritual?) is not and/or could not be a good thing. Were Zechariah's words not for us because they are OT?

"... This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts." Zech 4:6

Has God changed since that was written? Has the Word of the LORD changed since that was written?


Are you implying that thinking is more important than communication and connection with God and love for God? Good thinking may not be an evil thing, but it is certainly no assurance of pleasing God or of approaching God. Are the best students the best followers of God and His Son? Where does it say that in the scriptures?

"Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
This is the first and great commandment.
And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." Matt 22:37-40

Will obeying the two greatest commandments as per Jesus make a man think better? Perhaps, but if we must first think better, is that not putting the cart before the horse?

What does Jesus say to do first?

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matt 6:33

How does one seek the kingdom of God? By studying the Bible and/or by thinking and reasoning things out?

I don't think you will find that written in the Bible as being the pathway to God... What Paul's penned words say are for us to study to be approved... not to learn.

"Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." II Tim 2:15

What still does apply to one who simply studies the Bible without talking to God or praying or asking for His help and without getting into His Spirit is this as I have understood it:

"And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh." Ecc 12:12

We may well learn some things in our study of the scriptures, but if we are not properly directed by the Holy Spirit, why would we be better in our knowledge than an atheist who has learned his lessons well by studying the scriptures for his own purposes rather than to come to know God?

I was not decrying the reliance we must all have on the spirit of God in understanding spiritual truth. What I was saying was that there are several people on this forum who tend toward spiritualist philosophy in their interpretation of scripture. For example, the idea that the "spiritual" perspective completely overrides the physical even to the point of being the only perspective. The view of several here that the second coming of Jesus was fully realised at Pentecost and that there is no future physical literal coming. Another example is rooted in Catholicism which itself evolved from paganism that heaven is not a literal place where we live and enjoy real metal physical relationships and pleasures, but rather a state of being. There is no physical body...we are spirits, which purportedly float around like a transparent gas or something. Yet scripture clearly describes God, who is indeed spirit, add having arms, hands, a face etc. Angels seer Him...He sits on a throne...yet these things are not taken literally but spiritualised into a metaphor rendering the whole future nothing but a nebulous unknown.

 

[Helen]

Makes me wonder where @Phoneman777 has been!

I asked brakelite , he hasn't heard from him.
I wrote to @Phoneman777 about a week ago via PM but I got nothing back
I miss him.

He , quiet thinker ( is that his name, I may have got it muddled LOL) and braklite , are the most balanced and 'normal' SDA I've known .

Lets go and start a new christian site where it is against the rules to "say" or or ask what anyone's denominational or doctrinal beliefs are..
I think life would be much calmer.

 

[amadeus]

I was not decrying the reliance we must all have on the spirit of God in understanding spiritual truth. What I was saying was that there are several people on this forum who tend toward spiritualist philosophy in their interpretation of scripture. For example, the idea that the "spiritual" perspective completely overrides the physical even to the point of being the only perspective. The view of several here that the second coming of Jesus was fully realised at Pentecost and that there is no future physical literal coming. Another example is rooted in Catholicism which itself evolved from paganism that heaven is not a literal place where we live and enjoy real metal physical relationships and pleasures, but rather a state of being. There is no physical body...we are spirits, which purportedly float around like a transparent gas or something. Yet scripture clearly describes God, who is indeed spirit, add having arms, hands, a face etc. Angels seer Him...He sits on a throne...yet these things are not taken literally but spiritualised into a metaphor rendering the whole future nothing but a nebulous unknown.

Now I understand better your meaning, but you used the word, spiritualizing, without clearly explaining what you meant. As you well know by now there are a great many different beliefs and doctrines held and/or argued by the members of this forum. Personally I don't like to use some of the words people throw around, like "spiritualism" or "dispensationalism" without a providing a reasonably clear definition. Some of the definitions that people intend I have learned during my time here. Others, I have to look up if I am wanting understand what a person is really saying. Many of them I simply pass by rather spend time which I could better use elsewhere.

Even with my better understanding of your position, I still would not simply endorse your point of view either. I certainly have more spiritual view than many others, likely including you about God and the things of God. When you generalize you may inadvertently attack or disagree strongly with others besides the ones you really had in mind. Being at different places in our beliefs about these things doesn't always mean that one is necessarily right and the other is necessarily wrong. Our visions are not so clear as that.

To exemplify the problem in communication people have here consider one word that you and others uses regularly: "literal". In your above explanation, you used it apparently to mean "material" or "physical" or "real" or that which the five natural senses are able to perceive. What I see is that God, a Spirit, is real and to me He is literal yet, with the five natural senses alone, carnal man cannot perceive Him. If he were to look on God as He told Moses, he could not live...

 

[ReChoired]

... are you going to join in any other discussions ?...

Just posted in the PHOTO thread. Takes time to pick some good ones.

PHOTO THREAD.

 

[Helen]

Just reading your responses, it seems you like to make a lot of future predictions. Are you a prophet?

You are not an optimist?

The thread and OP have to do with what we all believe. My beliefs are tested, and others. All beliefs are being tested by scripture here. It is just that I have found that some do not desire to be tested.

What does that have to do with this thread and its OP?

I just began here, and surely we must all begin somewhere, yes? It takes time. I just opened another thread on prophecy:

Prophetic Chart from beginning unto the ending, Prophetic studies

The threads I read when I signed up were rather uninteresting to me, though some of the people are interesting.

Just replying.

Haha!! I liked your post , humour, and attitude .
Maybe we will soon be friends

I count @brakelite as a friend.
And Phoneman who sadly is missing right now.

No, not a prophet.
And no not an optimist , that would be my husband, he can always see the flowers, I notice the weeds ....which he ignores and never pulls up, that's me....though he will helpfully say...
" You missed one over there"

 

[Helen]

The threads I read when I signed up were rather uninteresting to me, though some of the people are interesting.

Forgot this bit...

On that we AGREE!!

Most threads are old and boring now. I skip many of them.
But hang around, there are many good people here...a mixed bag all of us.

 

[amadeus]

I asked brakelite , he hasn't heard from him.
I wrote to @Phoneman777 about a week ago via PM but I got nothing back
I miss him.

He , quiet thinker ( is that his name, I may have got it muddled LOL) and braklite , are the most balanced and 'normal' SDA I've known .

Lets go and start a new christian site where it is against the rules to "say" or or ask what anyone's denominational or doctrinal beliefs are..
I think life would be much calmer.

I know you are not serious about this new forum idea because together you and I and several others traveled to many different forums with our old friend Mike. What is needed is for all of us to very simply be like Jesus 24/7, each and every one of us. That would require more than we, all of us, are able to do without God's help. For me, my calmest physical place is home with me and my wife only. Anywhere else is always at a greater level of stress and a lesser level of calm... if you get my meaning. I rest at home, not only at night when I sleep.

 

[ReChoired]

Haha!! I liked your post , humour, and attitude .
Maybe we will soon be friends

Here's to hope!

I count @brakelite as a friend.
And Phoneman who sadly is missing right now.

Good to know.

No, not a prophet.
And no not an optimist , that would be my husband, he can always see the flowers, I notice the weeds ....which he ignores and never pulls up, that's me....though he will helpfully say...
" You missed one over there"

Gardening, just flowers, or also food items (though flowers can sometimes be food items)? Lot of good lessons in the natural world of gardening to the spiritual world of character development.