Stumbling Block verses

[Episkopos]

Revelation 3:
“And to the angel of the church in Sardis write,

‘These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: “I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. (This is that twisted inverted doctrine that is still infiltrating the Church.) 2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before God. 3 Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you. 4 You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. (These have not twisted Scripture) 5 He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

6 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.” ’

And the church at Sardis has been linked to the Protestant church. Think Watchman Nee.

 

[Episkopos]

Right Jen,
It seems that most times when Jesus healed, it was followed by "go, and sin no more". So...it just makes you wonder if that healing was contingent on the person never again sinning??!
Then we have faith...faith cannot be contingent on healing as, just look at the lame man that was let down through the roof to get to Jesus, by his friends. It was written: said "When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the man, “Friend, your sins are forgiven.” So, who's faith was it that healed/saved this man? As Jesus was not yet crucified, His blood was not yet shed so...this one had to be mercy? Complicated for my lack of grey matter

Has not the Son of Man the power to forgive sins?

 

[CharismaticLady]

This is difficult for me to grasp. Bear with me. The shedding of blood is to...make atonement for sin and to cleanse. In the temple, it had to be done repeatedly because the people kept sinning because of the weakness of their flesh...and this made their conscience not clean.

So...it follows, to me anyway, that the blood of Jesus was to cleanse so that we could go before God. But He also always told healed people, go and sin no more...ah, its too much for me.

It is the difference between the blood of bulls and goats, that merely covered our sins, but they still remained underneath the covering, like a new tarp over sewage, and each year they put a new tarp over it; and the blood of Jesus who takes away our sin and we have no more burden of it. We can breathe clean air. But the great thing about Jesus taking away our past sins is He doesn't leave us to our own devices. No, He at the same time baptizes us with His Holy Spirit to empower our old nature to be a partaker of the divine nature of 2 Peter 1, and instead of thinking about sin, we grow in glorification. 2 Peter 1:5-7.

Hebrews 10:
For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

A dying to self must occur because if I'm filled with pride of this life that isn't really life, but rather death, I will not put my hand to the plow and seek the life that is in Him.

But you see that the blood is used in a despicable way...to try to keep ones life rather than lose it to find life. It's a bit horrifying. I think it would be unbearably horrifying except that I'm seeing it a bit dimly currently...

 

[CharismaticLady]

And the church at Sardis has been linked to the Protestant church. Think Watchman Nee.

Yes, correct.

Actually in the two highlighted places if first think of Martin Luther and John Calvin, and in the second for the same church age, Jacob Arminius and John Wesley. Watchman Nee would have been in the next church age, Philadelphia.

 

[Nancy]

Has not the Son of Man the power to forgive sins?

Ha! Amen yes He sure does! So, it is all about faith and obedience to Him...even if it is not always our OWN faith that can heal another? That verse always had me wondering and praying this way too. Especially for those I know and love who are not as yet saved...I will pray for their infirmities and that God would have mercy on them despite their-selves. i do not know if that is a correct way to pray for the unsaved or not...

 

[stunnedbygrace]

It is the difference between the blood of bulls and goats, that merely covered our sins, but they still remained underneath the covering, like a new tarp over sewage, and each year they put a new tarp over it; and the blood of Jesus who takes away our sin and we have no more burden of it. We can breathe clean air. But the great thing about Jesus taking away our past sins is He doesn't leave us to our own devices. No, He at the same time baptizes us with His Holy Spirit to empower our old nature to be a partaker of the divine nature of 2 Peter 1, and instead of thinking about sin, we grow in glorification. 2 Peter 1:5-7.

Hebrews 10:
For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.

Yes, I can see that a religion has been built that tramples the blood underfoot as if it is a common thing.

 

[Episkopos]

Glorying in the cross of Christ. Does that mean we glory in the death of Jesus? God forbid!

We glory in our own death so that His life is made manifest in the weakness of these mortal bodies.

 

[CharismaticLady]

So death was overcome by His resurrection. Jesus did all of this in the weakness of man.(but in the wisdom of God)

So we ought also to take on His life in the weakness of these mortal bodies.

Not sure where you are going with this. Jesus died while we were yet sinners. Those who repent, not of individual sins, but of the whole weakness of our nature, Jesus gives us a strong new nature that can grow in glorification (not sanctification - that was already done). But while our new nature is strong and eternal, our bodies of flesh still need to take on glorification and immortality.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Daniel 4:17 This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.

The path of Nebuchadnezzar...until he come in to agreement with what? (Daniel 4:25), (Daniel 4:32-34)And they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field: they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and seven times shall pass over thee, until thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will. [33] The same hour was the thing fulfilled upon Nebuchadnezzar: and he was driven from men, and did eat grass as oxen, and his body was wet with the dew of heaven, till his hairs were grown like eagles' feathers, and his nails like birds' claws. [34] And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:

Does God change?

I'm sorry, I don't know what you are saying to me.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I'm sorry, I don't know what you are saying to me.

I think she was saying it has always been that God decides who to give the kingdom to, not men, and that has never changed.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Not sure exactly why I am weeping...just the beauty of it all I guess.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I think she was saying it has always been that God decides who to give the kingdom to, not men, and that has never changed.

couldn’t have said it any better. “it has always been that God decides who to give the kingdom to, not men, and that has never changed.” ...Which is a major stumbling block as it is hated ...despised and denied of by men.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I think she was saying it has always been that God decides who to give the kingdom to, not men, and that has never changed.

That has to do with the kingdoms of men, not the kingdom of God.

Romans 13:
Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.

cc: @VictoryinJesus

 

[CharismaticLady]

couldn’t have said it any better. “it has always been that God decides who to give the kingdom to, not men, and that has never changed.” ...Which is a major stumbling block as it is hated ...despised and denied of by men.

I just hope you know what Daniel is referring to, and not promoting Limited Atonement.

 

[Episkopos]

That has to do with the kingdoms of men, not the kingdom of God.

Romans 13:
Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.

There is confusion on this too. God sets up the authorities.....but it is the devil that sets up WHO is in these temporal authorities. The devil is a usurper of God's ways. The same thing happens in the churches...which are the institutions of men.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

That has to do with the kingdoms of men, not the kingdom of God.

Romans 13:
Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.

cc: @VictoryinJesus

If God appoints and gives in the kingdom of men ( puts leaders in place and removes rulers from their place) would He not also decide who to give His own kingdom to? Verse 34 is where Neb acknowledges the rest of it.

 

[CharismaticLady]

There is confusion on this too. God sets up the authorities.....but it is the devil that sets up WHO is in these temporal authorities. The devil is a usurper of God's ways. The same thing happens in the churches...which are the institutions of men.

Satan cannot do anything without permission from God. God uses Satan to chasten us, and give us what we deserve.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

There is confusion on this too. God sets up the authorities.....but it is the devil that sets up WHO is in these temporal authorities. The devil is a usurper of God's ways. The same thing happens in the churches...which are the institutions of men.

Does the devil set up rulers and remove rulers or is it instead as God says, that HE puts rulers in their place and removes rulers from their place?

 

[CharismaticLady]

If God appoints and gives in the kingdom of men ( puts leaders in place and removes rulers from their place) would He not also decide who to give His own kingdom to? Verse 34 is where Neb acknowledges the rest of it.

No. Whole world means whole world.

 

[Episkopos]

Does the devil set up rulers and remove rulers or is it instead as God says, that HE puts rulers in their place and removes rulers from their place?

He can intervene. There have been righteous rulers in the past. But in a democratic system...the devil is always behind it. That's why men love that system best.