Universalism: Where Do People Get The Idea

[DNB]

That's not exactly what I mean. When are we to cease "evangelizing" a particular person? (Thereby — in effect — making our own personal decision that as far as it concerns us, we did our righteous duty as commanded, and now they can go on to Hell.
Some people seem to feel that if they got out their bullhorn, and yelled at someone taking their child Trick or Treating, that they are going to Hell.... then that was "evangelizing."

Well, there comes a point when you have to wipe the dust of your feet in protest against certain people. Just as Paul did to the Jews, when their obstinate and aggressive reactions to the Gospel, gave Paul no choice. In other words, it was the best remedy for them.
But, if you find that you, yourself, are unaware of when that point comes, that doesn't mean that it's not the proper approach under certain circumstances. That is, a certain amount of wisdom and insight should allow you to know when you efforts are in vain, and that it's either time to, let someone else take over, or show your indignation (wipe their dust of your feet).
This is a holy disposition. Some people are going to hell, that is a fact, so the best impact that you can have on them, after enough efforts spent on them, is to give them a taste of hell i.e. ostracize them. ...you'll find that this approach does actually affect them.

Luke 10:8-12
10:8. "When you enter a town and are welcomed, eat what is set before you. 9. Heal the sick who are there and tell them, 'The kingdom of God is near you.' 10. But when you enter a town and are not welcomed, go into its streets and say, 11. 'Even the dust of your town that sticks to our feet we wipe off against you. Yet be sure of this: The kingdom of God is near.' 12. I tell you, it will be more bearable on that day for Sodom than for that town.

Acts 13:45-46
13:45. When the Jews saw the crowds, they were filled with jealousy and talked abusively against what Paul was saying. 46. Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: "We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles.

 

[DNB]

Why do some people think that everyone goes to Heaven in the end?

I imagine, like any doctrinal controversy, show 10 people a pericope in scripture, and you'll get 6-8 different interpretations.
And, as we all know, people often let emotions dictate their exegesis.
So as @Hidden In Him said, it makes some people feel better, and this sentiment influences their interpretative inclination.
And as he also implied, there are isolated texts that could be used to substantiate the position. But, obviously, this does not reflect a comprehensive exegesis of New Testament soteriology.

1 Corinthians 15:22 - "For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive." (ESV)
2 Peter 3:9 - "The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance." (ESV)
1 Timothy 2:3–6 - "This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for ALL men—the testimony given in its proper time." (NIV)
1 John 2:2 - "He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world." (NIV)
1 Timothy 4:10 - "For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe." (ESV)
Romans 11:32 - "For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all." (NIV)

 

[John Caldwell]

Why do some people think that everyone goes to Heaven in the end?

Different reasons, I suppose.

George MacDonald held this view and is probably one most studied, at least by virtue of his influence on C.S. Lewis (who was not a Universalist).

He viewed Hell as a type of refining fire that serves a redemptive purpose. "I believe that no hell will be lacking which would help the just mercy of God to redeem his children. Take any of those wicked people in Dante's hell, and ask wherein is justice served by their punishment. Mind, I am not saying it is not right to punish them, I am saying, justice is not, never can be satisfied by suffering-nay, cannot have any satisfaction in or from suffering. Human resentment, human revenge, human hate may."

William Barclay believed in Universal salvation based on how he understood the character of God being "good" (in "I am a Convinced Universalist"). He relies on Gregory of Nyssa's argument of Hell being a refining tool as well.

I do not know many other reasons. They seem to rest on viewing Hell as having a redemptive purpose.

 

[reformed1689]

Different reasons, I suppose.

George MacDonald held this view and is probably one most studied, at least by virtue of his influence on C.S. Lewis (who was not a Universalist).

He viewed Hell as a type of refining fire that serves a redemptive purpose. "I believe that no hell will be lacking which would help the just mercy of God to redeem his children. Take any of those wicked people in Dante's hell, and ask wherein is justice served by their punishment. Mind, I am not saying it is not right to punish them, I am saying, justice is not, never can be satisfied by suffering-nay, cannot have any satisfaction in or from suffering. Human resentment, human revenge, human hate may."

William Barclay believed in Universal salvation based on how he understood the character of God being "good" (in "I am a Convinced Universalist"). He relies on Gregory of Nyssa's argument of Hell being a refining tool as well.

I do not know many other reasons. They seem to rest on viewing Hell as having a redemptive purpose.

Sounds more like Purgatory.

 

[Helen]

I would like to believe, myself, that if I can love someone God surely loves that person more. God is surely more merciful and loving than I am. I wouldn't want anyone damned eternally in hellfire. I also think it would be hard to love God very much if He had plans to fry people eternally.

Luke 10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.

1 Chronicles 16:34 O give thanks unto the Lord; for he is good; for his mercy endureth for ever.

Ive always wondered where or when the word "eternal" , became forever and ever . I've done a word study on ages, eon, forever , etc...

It does amaze me how easily humans ( christians) can so glibly say ""He or she is off to hell" ...without even a blink of an eye.
But God is a 'checker of fruit'...and He will be checking , on That Day.

Maybe that is the whole test of our life and faith.....maybe that is the acid test we are all up against... = " Do we love like God did/does.."

I am not sure that when we stand 'alone' before Him , He won't say -
" So you were tested by your heart....and you are found wanting..you did not love like I did, but will to write people off with a flick of the little finger."

I personally am not will to take that chance. I will 'judge' God as righteous and merciful , ready to forgive... I will not risk judge Him a hard and austere man as in the parable.

Just my two cent's

@Willie T

 

[Helen]

guessing I’m “universalism” then? Is that ugly? giving why then and feel free to shoot it down. Unto us a child is born. Saying we’ve been born again from above, a child of God. Children of God are given. Doesn’t cease at a child but the body of Christ is formed. Paul (inspired by the Holy Spirit) said until Christ be formed in you. Saviour of the world...the full measure of a perfect man. Ephesians 4:12-13 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: [13] Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

More whys: the blessing overcomes the curse. Obedience overcomes disobedience. Good overcomes evil. Life overcomes death and the grave. His children are instructed to sow mercy, peace, and forgiveness and the word say Israel blooms and fills the earth with fruits of righteousness which is Christ. ...that New City Jerusalem told is above where God says every good and perfect gift comes down from. James 1:17-18
[17] Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. [18] Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

Another why: for the glory to be revealed in His children “through blessing they will be blessed.” Blessing overcomes the curse. (Joel 2:25-27)
And ye shall eat in plenty, and be satisfied, and praise the name of the Lord your God, that hath dealt wondrously with you: and my people shall never be ashamed. [27] And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the Lord your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.

Is that all hogwash?

Just read yours...I posted #25 before I read yours.

 

[Helen]

Different reasons, I suppose.

George MacDonald held this view and is probably one most studied, at least by virtue of his influence on C.S. Lewis (who was not a Universalist).

He viewed Hell as a type of refining fire that serves a redemptive purpose. "I believe that no hell will be lacking which would help the just mercy of God to redeem his children. Take any of those wicked people in Dante's hell, and ask wherein is justice served by their punishment. Mind, I am not saying it is not right to punish them, I am saying, justice is not, never can be satisfied by suffering-nay, cannot have any satisfaction in or from suffering. Human resentment, human revenge, human hate may."

William Barclay believed in Universal salvation based on how he understood the character of God being "good" (in "I am a Convinced Universalist"). He relies on Gregory of Nyssa's argument of Hell being a refining tool as well.

I do not know many other reasons. They seem to rest on viewing Hell as having a redemptive purpose.

I tried to 'like' your post, but my like button won't work today.

 

[Waiting on him]

I think this place is hell.

 

[John Caldwell]

Sounds more like Purgatory.

Perhaps. I do not know enough of Catholic belief to say that they believe all will ultimately be saved. I always thought of Purgatory as kinda in between (not Heaven or Hell).

 

[Waiting on him]

Jude 1:23 KJV
[23] And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.


Tecarta Bible

 

[reformed1689]

Perhaps. I do not know enough of Catholic belief to say that they believe all will ultimately be saved. I always thought of Purgatory as kinda in between (not Heaven or Hell).

From my understanding Purgatory is a purification process that needs to be completed before entering Heaven according to Catholic Doctrine.

 

[reformed1689]

I personally am not will to take that chance. I will 'judge' God as righteous and merciful , ready to forgive... I will not risk judge Him a hard and austere man as in the parable.

It's not a matter of judging God, it is a matter of what God says. He has told us. His mercy does not cancel out his justice, holiness and wrath.

 

[Helen]

It's not a matter of judging God, it is a matter of what God says. He has told us. His mercy does not cancel out his justice, holiness and wrath.

Obviously , you know. Thats good...we need to have the answer when we stand before Him.. .. I'll be right there listening to you telling God that His mercy and love does not and must not cancel out his justice and wrath..
Go for it... this is your thread afterall.

 

[Waiting on him]

Mark 9:44,46,48-49 KJV
[44] Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. [46] Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. [48] Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. [49] For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.


Tecarta Bible

 

[reformed1689]

Obviously , you know. Thats good...we need to have the answer when we stand before Him.. .. I'll be right there listening to you telling God that His mercy and love does not and must not cancel out his justice and wrath..
Go for it... this is your thread afterall.

I'm not telling God anything, this is what He has told us. I have suspected you were a universalist based on what I have seen in other threads so your responses in this thread are not surprising, but also, not based on Scripture.

 

[Waiting on him]

Psalm 22:6 KJV
[6] But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.


Tecarta Bible

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I think this place is hell.

Proverbs 15:24 The way of life is above to the wise, that he may depart from hell beneath.

John 8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

 

[Waiting on him]

Proverbs 15:24 The way of life is above to the wise, that he may depart from hell beneath.

John 8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

Guess I’m a universalist also, those claiming a hell for people other than themselves... would they be considered elitists??

 

[Waiting on him]

I’ve personally been on the bar by and sometimes when I post here I feel as I still am.

 

[Helen]

I'm not telling God anything, this is what He has told us. I have suspected you were a universalist based on what I have seen in other threads so your responses in this thread are not surprising, but also, not based on Scripture.

Says you.
Time will tell.....