Universalism: Where Do People Get The Idea

[Waiting on him]

Says you.
Time will tell.....

As I’ve posted before, the Lord will descend and will clearly interpret all scripture every word and even the spaces between the words.

 

[Helen]

Mark 9:44,46,48-49 KJV
[44] Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. [46] Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. [48] Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. [49] For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.


Tecarta Bible

Amen.


But...you will be told- " It's not anywhere in the bible"

As King David said ..."He has not dealt with us according to our sins, Nor punished us according to our iniquities."

And he was a man 'after God's own heart'..

 

[Philip James]

Perhaps. I do not know enough of Catholic belief to say that they believe all will ultimately be saved. I always thought of Purgatory as kinda in between (not Heaven or Hell).

Hello John,
Catholics pray and offer the sacrifice of the Mass for the salvation of the whole world.
But there may be some who willfully and knowingly reject the life the God offers them.
There is a wide range of speculation on the severity of judgement of the world, but I for one will hope in the boundless mercy of our judge, the Lord, Jesus Christ, Who came not to condemn the world, but to save it.

Purgatory is the final purification of those on their way into heaven.

Peace be with you!

 

[John Caldwell]

From my understanding Purgatory is a purification process that needs to be completed before entering Heaven according to Catholic Doctrine.

Then the Hell of these guys seems like Purgatory to me as well. I guess the difference is the absence of Purgatory (or Hell...just this one place).

 

[Willie T]

This is not talking about all people, this is talking about the elect if you look at it in context.

… and you keep on saying you aren't Calvinistic? LOL

 

[Waiting on him]

Revelation 20:10 KJV
[10] And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

I find this interesting the lake of fire where satan and all of hell is cAst in..... has a daytime and nighttime?????
Tecarta Bible

 

[Willie T]

This is not talking about all people, this is talking about the elect if you look at it in context.

If all you choose to look at is Matt. 18.... v14, I think?

 

[Waiting on him]

There must be a sun and moon in the lake of fire???

 

[Waiting on him]

And it’s also rotating??

 

[Waiting on him]

Oh, and there’s also worms and sulfur.

 

[reformed1689]

… and you keep on saying you aren't Calvinistic? LOL

No I AM Calvinist, full-blown (regarding matters of soteriology).

 

[DNB]

My understanding of hell, is likened to what Paul stated about treating evil with kindness '...for it is like putting burning coals on their head...'.
That is, their conscience or guilt is consuming them. The burning is figurative.
It is the same way of hell. God does not punish people with corporal law, attacking the body is not commensurate to the crime. Their offense is due to the hardening of their hearts, and thus, it is their hearts that will be in anguish when they find themselves rejected from God's Kingdom. So that, in fact, they will be punishing themselves.

God is not sadistic, nor does he use physical means to address a spiritual issue. And, the imprecations are clear about the destiny of those who reject God's gift of Grace & Mercy. For what God had made so easy to obtain, that is, all one needed to do is say sorry (repent), and thank you (for his grace), this they refused. And now when they see what has become of themselves, there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Again, not because God is torturing them with physical pain, but because they are torturing themselves with unrelenting regret and frustration, for mercy, life and love was handed on a silver plate to them.

This, is a just punishment. And to all you bleeding hearts out there, when the Day of Judgement comes and the Books are opened, you will see actually how wicked the thoughts were of those who you are feeling sorry for, or are expecting to see in heaven (get behind me, I never knew you). For now, we can't imagine how some seemingly harmless people will be left out into eternal darkness, but, again, the Day of Judgement will reveal a great deal about us all. We may be surprised to see some get rejected, but then we will understand why, and will accept God's judgement.

 

[Ezra]

Purgatory is the final purification of those on their way into heaven.

is false doctrine
According to the Catholic Encyclopedia, Purgatory is “a place or condition of temporal punishment for those who, departing this life in God's grace, are not entirely free from venial faults, or have not fully paid the satisfaction due to their transgressions.” To summarize, in Catholic theology Purgatory is a place that a Christian’s soul goes to after death to be cleansed of the sins that had not been fully satisfied during life. Is this doctrine of Purgatory in agreement with the Bible? Absolutely not!

Jesus died to pay the penalty for all of our sins (Romans 5:8). Isaiah 53:5 declares, “But He was pierced for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon Him, and by His wounds we are healed.” Jesus suffered for our sins so that we could be delivered from suffering. To say that we must also suffer for our sins is to say that Jesus’ suffering was insufficient. To say that we must atone for our sins by cleansing in Purgatory is to deny the sufficiency of the atoning sacrifice of Jesus (1 John 2:2). The idea that we have to suffer for our sins after death is contrary to everything the Bible says about salvation.

The primary Scriptural passage Catholics point to for evidence of Purgatory is 1 Corinthians 3:15, which says, “If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.” The passage (1 Corinthians 3:12-15) is using an illustration of things going through fire as a description of believers’ works being judged. If our works are of good quality “gold, silver, costly stones,” they will pass through the fire unharmed, and we will be rewarded for them. If our works are of poor quality “wood, hay, and straw,” they will be consumed by the fire, and there will be no reward. The passage does not say that believers pass through the fire, but rather that a believer’s works pass through the fire. 1 Corinthians 3:15 refers to the believer “escaping through the flames,” not “being cleansed by the flames.”

Purgatory, like many other Catholic dogmas, is based on a misunderstanding of the nature of Christ’s sacrifice. Catholics view the Mass / Eucharist as a re-presentation of Christ’s sacrifice because they fail to understand that Jesus’ once-for-all sacrifice was absolutely and perfectly sufficient (Hebrews 7:27). Catholics view meritorious works as contributing to salvation due to a failure to recognize that Jesus’ sacrificial payment has no need of additional “contribution” (Ephesians 2:8-9). Similarly, Purgatory is understood by Catholics as a place of cleansing in preparation for heaven because they do not recognize that because of Jesus’ sacrifice, we are already cleansed, declared righteous, forgiven, redeemed, reconciled, and sanctified.

The very idea of Purgatory and the doctrines that are often attached to it (prayer for the dead, indulgences, meritorious works on behalf of the dead, etc.) fail to recognize that Jesus’ death was sufficient to pay the penalty for ALL of our sins. Jesus, who was God incarnate (John 1:1, 14), paid an infinite price for our sin. Jesus died for our sins (1 Corinthians 15:3). Jesus is the atoning sacrifice for our sins (1 John 2:2). To limit Jesus’ sacrifice to atoning for original sin or sins committed before salvation is an attack on the Person and Work of Jesus Christ. If we must, in order to be saved, pay for, atone for, or suffer because of our sins, then Jesus’ death was not a perfect, complete, and sufficient sacrifice.

For believers, after death is to be "away from the body and at home with the Lord" (2 Corinthians 5:6-8; Philippians 1:23). Notice that this does not say "away from the body, in Purgatory with the cleansing fire." No, because of the perfection, completion, and sufficiency of Jesus' sacrifice, we are immediately in the Lord's presence after death, fully cleansed, free from sin, glorified, perfected, and ultimately sanctified.

 

[Ezra]

We may be surprised to see some get rejected, but then we will understand why, and will accept God's judgement.

only one thing rejects ..that is not being saved

 

[DNB]

only one thing rejects ..that is not being saved

yes, that was my point, ...sorry, are you agreeing with me, or correcting?

 

[Waiting on him]

And now when they see what has become of themselves, there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Again, not because God is torturing them with physical pain, but because they are torturing themselves with unrelenting regret and frustration, for mercy, life and love was handed on a silver plate to them.

Acts 7:51-54 KJV
[51] Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. [52] Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: [53] Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it. [54] When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.


Tecarta Bible

 

[Ezra]

yes, that was my point, ...sorry, are you agreeing with me, or correcting?

that being your point-agreed

 

[Helen]

..for it is like putting burning coals on their head...'.
That is, their conscience or guilt is consuming them. The burning is figurative.

Of interest (or not...) "Heaping coals of fire on someones head " is a middle eastern saying referring to kindness, not a negative thing but a positive thing... If someones fire went out they couldn't eat or warm themselves ...so they would go to a neighbour and ask for a few coals to get their own fire going again.

We had an excellent book written by a man who lived in Israel and learned the old customs.

 

[John Caldwell]

Of interest (or not...) "Heaping coals of fire on someones head " is a middle eastern saying referring to kindness, not a negative thing but a positive thing... If someones fire went out they couldn't eat or warm themselves ...so they would go to a neighbour and ask for a few coals to get their own fire going again.

We had an excellent book written by a man who lived in Israel and learned the old customs.

That makes a lot more sense than trying to cause them pain.

 

[Helen]

That makes a lot more sense than trying to cause them pain.

Yes, it is "loving they neighbour" in action.
Many old saying have been twisted to make them negative..for some reason.