My Lord And Savior Is Not A "SISSIFIED NEEDY JESUS", But HE is a GOD of WRATH!!

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Willie T

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Thank you for taking the time to post all that ( which got stuck behind the "quotes" but I still got it all.

Not really just a Calvinist question ..but here it is....

As you probably know by now...I have strong leanings toward what they call -Universalism, (although I hate that word and do not fit into their box. )

I cannot see that God, who set-up Adam and Eve , and placed the 'Serpent' in the middle .... that after doing that ...and knowing they would fall. ( I get that from the verse " The Lamb slain from BEFORE the creation of the world"
Which tells is God always 'had a Plan A '. Jesus.

So, what I can't seem to see that God, after starting this ball rolling, would then allow 90% of all humanity to end up in hell.
I was saved back in 1964 and I have never understood... " God wins, He saved 10% of the world! " Which looks to me like the Serpent wins!!

It's always bothered me.

But probably I am derailing this thread in throwing this in...
One thing to keep in mind is that we "Westerners" are but a fraction of the world's overall population. (Just 4.4% of the world's population lives in the USA.)
 

Helen

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One thing to keep in mind is that we "Westerners" are but a fraction of the world's overall population. (Just 4.4% of the world's population lives in the USA.)


Oh I know it. Scarifying thought...I just can't believe everyone of them who have not believed gets tipped into some lake of fire...unless it is The Fire..(our God IS a consuming fire)....and the dross gets burned away. Otherwise it leaves a nasty image of a god who has just 'played with' his creation.

This is forever at the back of my mind...and needs to be reconciled ....
 
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Preacher4Truth

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So, which is it? The unredeemed heart is deceitful and wicked. If you are good, your heart can't still be wicked. God promised to give us a heart of flesh and take away our hard heart. If you think your heart is still wicked, you aren't believing that God's promise was true.

I meant good, not as in my person, or that I'm personally good at all, but good at where I am in biblical belief of who Christ is. That was the context of my statement.

This is what we're getting at with you: you struggle with understanding context and your above is just one more example.

To illustrate this, you've taken pieces and parts of my statement, quoted that portion, and twisted the meaning and intent of what I truly stated and more importantly meant.

The context of 2 Peter 3:9 are the elect, from the very first chapter and verse the "us" are the elect. It is not difficult to see how and why you misunderstand things my friend.

I'm amazed people liked your twisting of my meaning, obviously they cannot grasp context either.
 
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Renniks

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I meant good, not as in my person, or that I'm personally good at all, but good at where I am in biblical belief of who Christ is. That was the context of my statement.

This is what we're getting at with you: you struggle with understanding context and your above is just one more example.

To illustrate this, you've taken pieces and parts of my statement, quoted that portion, and twisted the meaning and intent of what I truly stated and more importantly meant.

The context of 2 Peter 3:9 are the elect, from the very first chapter and verse the "us" are the elect. It is not difficult to see how and why you misunderstand things my friend.

I'm amazed people liked your twisting of my meaning, obviously they cannot grasp context either.
Your condescending tone is annoying but predictable.
Where in 2 Peter 3 does it say that those addressed are the elect?
 
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Waiting on him

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I meant good, not as in my person, or that I'm personally good at all, but good at where I am in biblical belief of who Christ is. That was the context of my statement.

This is what we're getting at with you: you struggle with understanding context and your above is just one more example.

To illustrate this, you've taken pieces and parts of my statement, quoted that portion, and twisted the meaning and intent of what I truly stated and more importantly meant.

The context of 2 Peter 3:9 are the elect, from the very first chapter and verse the "us" are the elect. It is not difficult to see how and why you misunderstand things my friend.

I'm amazed people liked your twisting of my meaning, obviously they cannot grasp context either.
So how do Calvinist know they are elect?
 
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reformed1689

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Oh I know it. Scarifying thought...I just can't believe everyone of them who have not believed gets tipped into some lake of fire...unless it is The Fire..(our God IS a consuming fire)....and the dross gets burned away. Otherwise it leaves a nasty image of a god who has just 'played with' his creation.

This is forever at the back of my mind...and needs to be reconciled ....
Here's the thing, Jesus said NO MAN comes to the Father but through Him. So, if you don't believe, you don't get to the Father. You get everlasting torment which is your just due.
 

Helen

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Here's the thing, Jesus said NO MAN comes to the Father but through Him. So, if you don't believe, you don't get to the Father. You get everlasting torment which is your just due.


:D

I just love the amount of compassion for the lost, that just flows from you guys.
I'm sure those kind of word must add hundreds to the your church of Calvin every week! :)

Bless you David.
 

Renniks

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Who do you think the beloved are?
They are Peter's friends. But this is what he says:
8" But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance."

He doesn't say: "God is patient with ya'll, not wanting any of ya'll to perish." He says "not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone come to repentance.

If I address a crowd and say: " Hey, ya'll, God wants to save everyone!" would you think that I meant God only wanted to save the people in that crowd?
 
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marks

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Sorry my post annoyed you. But David Taylor on this Site , who changed his name to today to reformed1689 and claims to be a Calvinist ..(you can check out his posts if you haven't seen any.)

He has implied these things ..this morning he said God choses some for salvation and some He doesn't .
I have asked him questions, some he doesn't answer. That is why I have asked them here to you and Soverign

Never mind if you don't want to answer me.
OK, now I know why the same avatars . . . I wonder why people change their screen names?

Maybe it has to do with that he stopped answering my questions also.

I've found @SovereignGrace to be a good source for info!

Much love!
 
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Renniks

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If we weren't, we would not believe and love God.
Not according to Calvin. He believed some people are enlightened by God for a time, maybe most of their lives and then God just drops em one day because they weren't really elect.
"Experience shows that the reprobate are sometimes affected in a way so similar to the elect that even in their own judgment there is no difference between them. Hence, it is not strange, that by the Apostle a taste of heavenly gifts, and by Christ himself a temporary faith is ascribed to them. Not that they truly perceive the power of spiritual grace and the sure light of faith; but the Lord, the better to convict them, and leave them without excuse, instills into their minds such a sense of goodness as can be felt without the Spirit of adoption ... there is a great resemblance and affinity between the elect of God and those who are impressed for a time with a fading faith ... Still it is correctly said, that the reprobate believe God to be propitious to them, inasmuch as they accept the gift of reconciliation, though confusedly and without due discernment; not that they are partakers of the same faith or regeneration with the children of God; but because, under a covering of hypocrisy they seem to have a principle of faith in common with them. Nor do I even deny that God illumines their mind to this extent ... there is nothing inconsistent in this with the fact of his enlightening some with a present sense of grace, which afterwards proves evanescent." (Institutes 3.2.11).
 

reformed1689

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They are Peter's friends. But this is what he says:
8" But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance."

He doesn't say: "God is patient with ya'll, not wanting any of ya'll to perish." He says "not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone come to repentance.

If I address a crowd and say: " Hey, ya'll, God wants to save everyone!" would you think that I meant God only wanted to save the people in that crowd?
No, that' is not what it says. Context again, you seem to keep skipping that. Just before it he says that he is patient with you. Not wanting that any should perish. This is pointing back to the you. Any of you. Not anyone period.

Again, if God did not will that anyone to go to hell, none would.
 

Renniks

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No, that' is not what it says. Context again, you seem to keep skipping that. Just before it he says that he is patient with you. Not wanting that any should perish. This is pointing back to the you. Any of you. Not anyone period.

Again, if God did not will that anyone to go to hell, none would.
No, he says he is patient with us. You seem to think "us" has to mean just the people in the crowd who are irresistibly elected to salvation, even though there's nothing about that in the passage.
You are adding to scripture.
 
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Preacher4Truth

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Your condescending tone is annoying but predictable.
Where in 2 Peter 3 does it say that those addressed are the elect?
Hey, leave off your personal hatred and ill comments toward others. It's highly probable your hatred of others, namely the Reformed, causes you to feel and see things not there. You rather need to watch how you've addressed some on here. I highly doubt you'd pull that face to face. So, what you should do is put off your old man and act like a believer.

Secondly, you've taken liberty to totally misrepresent my statements, but that doesn't bother you, and you do the same with God's word. Please refrain in the future from pulling small excerpts of persons statements and arriving at a total straw man.

I've already advised you the same "you" "elect" from the beginning of the epistle are still be referenced in 3:9. That's the context. The reason Christ had not returned is for the fact that God is patiently awaiting all he has elected to come to repentance. He is still doing this today.
 
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Preacher4Truth

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I’m trying to understand, what makes Calvin’s disciples sure they are elec

Christs disciples. We just happen to understand the importance of contextually interpreted Scripture.

Are you guys presenting Christ or theology?

You need to take a closer look at your above actions and personal behavior, not that of other's.

Oh, and @Jane_Doe22? It is duly noted you "like" every smart mouthed or demeaning response to us. That is really juvenile of you.
 
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