No-one has gone to heaven?

[VictoryinJesus]

Jessu will be king of his kingdom - when he returns to Earth to depose Satan and claim Earth as his kingdom.
At this moment Earth is Satan's fiefdom - he rules it with the permission of GOD so is not king.
When Jesus told the

Spiritually. You lack spirituality. Ask GOD to be given the gift of wisdom.

I have asked, as I’ve also asked for everyone here including you. James 3:17-18 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. [18] And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.

 

[Truther]

Far too many Christians and other faiths believe that the dead go to heaven.
This is regardless of how awful the person was.
Ministers and preachers of all denominations promote and maintain this nonsensical idea even when burying or burning the most evil criminals.
The Bible quite clearly says all the dead go into their graves so what do you think and why do you think you go to heaven when you die?

Sinners, etc, go to some holding place to wait for the White Throne judgement.

Saints go here....

...... and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,



These are going to return with Jesus to reign on earth for the 1000 year Millennial, in new bodies like his was as seen in the days after he resurrected.

 

[Renniks]

Your friend Satan is delighted you fell for his lies.

In the beginning was the Word.
" In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

 

[Renniks]

See the blog post, "The Rich Man and Lazarus" for a better understanding of this parable.

You might likewise like to see our reply to a forum members suggestion that we,

Highlight the parts of Jesus' teaching of his doctrine, "YOU" claim are NOT Factual Truths

This is found under another blog post entitled, "The Rich Man and the Beggar"

Both of these should bring you up to speed.

Boy, you are more messed up theologically than I thought. To suppose Jesus just made up an imaginary world to make a point, and what point was that?
Just before this parable, Jesus tells another parable about wealth (Luke 16:1–13)—and the passage in between (16:14–18) finds Jesus rebuking the Pharisees for loving money, exalting themselves in self-justification, and ignoring the Old Testament’s authority. All three themes are woven into the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus. We have the rich man’s love of money, his self-importance even in Hades, and his rejection of divine revelation.
It's not hard to understand unless you have an agenda to ignore the obvious.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Jessu will be king of his kingdom - when he returns to Earth to depose Satan and claim Earth as his kingdom.

when he returns to earth to depose Satan and claim earth as his kingdom. Who says God is not already destroying the works of the curse, sin and death? Consider 1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
The Son manifested that he might destroy the works of the devil:
Romans 8:18-19 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. [19] For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

the earnest expectation of the creature ...Waiteth patiently...for the manifestation of the sons of God ...that God....for this purpose the Son of God was manifested that he might through the Sons of God being manifested destroy the works of the devil. Does God fail? “For I reckon the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us” that God destroys the works of evil.

 

[Earburner]

How are "the dead in Christ" going to rise if they are already there in Heaven?

Yes, its very clear of where the dead in Christ are sleeping, in their graves, aka the pit, hell.
1 Thes. 4[13] But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
[14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
[15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
[18] Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Let's consider the evidence of what Peter said about David.
Acts 2[29] Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
[34] For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,..
> So is David asleep in his grave still?
Apparently so, because he was not one of those that arose from their graves after Jesus' resurrection. Matthew 27:52-53.
However, by that resurrection, it did show that the Saints who did rise from the dead, did so right from the last placement of their physical bodies.

So then, what is the paradise, that Jesus spoke of to the repentant thief?
To be "asleep in Jesus", is to be spiritually alive, but also to be unconscious of anything going on around you. To be asleep in Jesus, is to be in the grave, aka the pit, hell.
For now, all that we can hope for, towards that day of resurrection, is that our names be found written in the "The Book of Life", who is Jesus!
Is the grave paradise? I think not! Paradise is still future, of which shall be known to us consciously, in the day of our resurrection, when Jesus returns.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Yes, its very clear of where the dead in Christ are sleeping, in their graves, aka the pit, hell.
1 Thes. 4[13] But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
[14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
[15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
[18] Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Let's consider the evidence of what Peter said about David.
Acts 2[29] Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
[34] For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,..
> So is David asleep in his grave still?
Apparently so, because he was not one of those that arose from their graves after Jesus' resurrection. Matthew 27:52-53.
However, by that resurrection, it did show that the Saints who did rise from the dead, did so right from the last placement of their physical bodies.

So then, what is the paradise, that Jesus spoke of to the repentant thief?
To be "asleep in Jesus", is to be spiritually alive, but also to be unconscious of anything going on around you. To be asleep in Jesus, is to be in the grave, aka the pit, hell.
For now, all that we can hope for, towards that day of resurrection, is that our names be found written in the "The Book of Life", who is Jesus!
Is the grave paradise? I think not! Paradise is still future, of which shall be known to us consciously, in the day of our resurrection, when Jesus returns.

you make sense. But it leaves me with questions then. Heard a song yesterday “you called me out of the grave by name” is that false then? Have none so far then, heard His voice and been called out of the grave into Life? He said in the OT the grave cannot praise you Oh God. Always took that as those called out from the grave can praise, the deliverance from the removal of their grave clothes. You spoke of to rise in Him. So I have questions concerning Luke 2:34-35 And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against; [35] (Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.

For the fall...yes. can see this fall.
And rising again of many. Have I understood you correctly: No rising again of many? Another question would be concerning those who came out of the graves and were seen of many?

Isaiah 8:18 Behold, I and the children whom the Lord hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from the Lord of hosts, which dwelleth in mount Zion.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

VictoryinJesus said:
Matthew 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
The Jews lost the opportunity to bear God’s name. Jesus Christ said to the Jewish chief priests and older men of influence: “The kingdom of God will be taken from you and be given to a nation producing its fruits.” (Matt. 21:23-43) In agreement with this, the message of God’s kingdom with the privilege of becoming Christians was extended to the non-Jewish peoples, the Gentiles, even thirty-four years before Jerusalem, the Jewish capital, was destroyed by the Romans. The Jewish Christian apostle Symeon Peter was used to extend this favor to them.

What obligation did this lay upon those Gentile believers? The Jewish Christian disciple James pointed out that obligation when he said to a Christian religious investigation body at Jerusalem: “Brothers, hear me. Symeon has related thoroughly how God for the first time turned his attention to the nations to take out of them a people for his name. And with this the words of the Prophets agree, just as it is written, ‘After these things I shall return and rebuild the booth of David that is fallen down; and I shall rebuild its ruins and erect it again, in order that those who remain of the men may earnestly seek Jehovah, together with people of all the nations, people who are called by my name, says Jehovah.’”—Acts 15:13-18.

True Christians are therefore under the obligation to bear God’s name or be called by God’s name, that is, to be called the people of Jehovah, God’s people. So
within you.[/QUOTE]

As I said those answers were speculative. They are guesses.

Where you need to reread the Bible is inJohn 1 where it says that the word was God. As well as all the bits whereJesus acts as God, forgiving sin, accepting worship and identifying as God eg I and the Father are One, before Abraham was I am.
As to his dying, he was fully human, he was not pretending he died. His executioners were professionals who if they let a condemned man escape would face the death penalty themselves. They made sure with a spear thrust to the heart that Jesus was dead.

To imply that Jesus only pretended makes a mockery of Christianity and of the suffering of Christians who are trusting in a saviour who has experience the suffering they suffer.

I don't make a mockery of Christianity, I just don't agree with immitation Christianity, which is what someone is teaching, preaching and spreading that believes Jesus Christ to be God instead of The Only Begotten Son of God as the scriptures say he is. Those who don't love the True God Jehovah enough to have faith that Jehovah has the authority to make all things subject to his Only Begotten Son Jesus Christ, that Jehovah God has given his Only Begotten Son the authority to judge and forgive and that the only one not subject to The Only Begotten Son of Jehovah God is The True God Jehovah himself who is the Father and God of Jesus Christ.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

VictoryinJesus said:
Matthew 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
The Jews lost the opportunity to bear God’s name. Jesus Christ said to the Jewish chief priests and older men of influence: “The kingdom of God will be taken from you and be given to a nation producing its fruits.” (Matt. 21:23-43) In agreement with this, the message of God’s kingdom with the privilege of becoming Christians was extended to the non-Jewish peoples, the Gentiles, even thirty-four years before Jerusalem, the Jewish capital, was destroyed by the Romans. The Jewish Christian apostle Symeon Peter was used to extend this favor to them.

What obligation did this lay upon those Gentile believers? The Jewish Christian disciple James pointed out that obligation when he said to a Christian religious investigation body at Jerusalem: “Brothers, hear me. Symeon has related thoroughly how God for the first time turned his attention to the nations to take out of them a people for his name. And with this the words of the Prophets agree, just as it is written, ‘After these things I shall return and rebuild the booth of David that is fallen down; and I shall rebuild its ruins and erect it again, in order that those who remain of the men may earnestly seek Jehovah, together with people of all the nations, people who are called by my name, says Jehovah.’”—Acts 15:13-18.

True Christians are therefore under the obligation to bear God’s name or be called by God’s name, that is, to be called the people of Jehovah, God’s people. So
within you.

[/QUOTE]

thank you for taking the time to reply. I still struggle with all the back and forth of what others believe and how it fits with my own. Mostly what exactly is His plan for the Jews born not of the promise but remain still in unbelief. Often have heard we gentiles are adopted which is far different than the plans God had for the Jews. Also have heard the gentiles are not and were never under the law but under grace. My head spins with all the different ideas on restoration and rebuilding what has been wasted (torn down). I see a Jew differently one being outward and perishing, one inward and renewed(restored) build up of God. Not sure how adoption and under the law becomes so divided when called into One body: Galatians 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

He said in the OT the grave cannot praise you Oh God. Always took that as those called out from the grave can praise, the deliverance from the removal of their grave clothes.

Hebrews 7:8 Lexicon: In this case mortal men receive tithes, but in that case one receives them, of whom it is witnessed that he lives on.

“one receives them, of whom it is witnessed that he lives on.” Pretty bold if you consider. Revelation 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

 

[Renniks]

Yes, its very clear of where the dead in Christ are sleeping, in their graves, aka the pit, hell.
1 Thes. 4[13] But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
[14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
[15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
[18] Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Let's consider the evidence of what Peter said about David.
Acts 2[29] Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
[34] For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,..
> So is David asleep in his grave still?
Apparently so, because he was not one of those that arose from their graves after Jesus' resurrection. Matthew 27:52-53.
However, by that resurrection, it did show that the Saints who did rise from the dead, did so right from the last placement of their physical bodies.

So then, what is the paradise, that Jesus spoke of to the repentant thief?
To be "asleep in Jesus", is to be spiritually alive, but also to be unconscious of anything going on around you. To be asleep in Jesus, is to be in the grave, aka the pit, hell.
For now, all that we can hope for, towards that day of resurrection, is that our names be found written in the "The Book of Life", who is Jesus!
Is the grave paradise? I think not! Paradise is still future, of which shall be known to us consciously, in the day of our resurrection, when Jesus returns.

Where in scripture does it say anyone is asleep in Jesus?

At the Transfiguration of Jesus (Matt. 17:1-8) we see Moses and Elijah who were alive, they were not sleeping in their graves.

In Revelation 6:10 we see the account of people being conscious after death and asking God, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” This is before the resurrection. They aren't sleeping.

Jesus speaks to the criminal on his right and says "Truly I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise."

Paul say in 2 Cor. 5:8, "we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord."

Sleep is a common biblical metaphor for death of the body—in distinction from the soul. John 11 provides an example. Here Jesus tells his disciples, “‘Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep but I am going there to wake him up. He didn't mean Lazarus' soul was sleeping.

Acts 7: 54 The Jewish leaders were infuriated by Stephen’s accusation, and they shook their fists at him in rage. 55 But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, gazed steadily into heaven and saw the glory of God, and he saw Jesus standing in the place of honor at God’s right hand.
Stephen didn't go into a deep sleep until the judgement, he went straight to God.
The soul leaves the body at death. Many people have experienced this reality when in the presence of a loved ones passing.

John 11:23–27:

Jesus said to her, "Your brother will rise again." Martha said to him, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day." Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?" She said to Him, "Yes, Lord; I have believed that You are the Christ, the Son of God, even He who comes into the world."

Notice Jesus corrected Martha's belief that her brother would only "live" in the resurrection. In contrast, Jesus revealed that believers will live even if they die, and in fact, they will never die in the way that our bodies do.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Your friend Satan is delighted you fell for his lies.

Some people learn Jesus is Lord now, others learn at the White Throne Judgment.
See how that wotks out for you.

 

[Earburner]

Where in scripture does it say anyone is asleep in Jesus?

At the Transfiguration of Jesus (Matt. 17:1-8) we see Moses and Elijah who were alive, they were not sleeping in their graves.

In Revelation 6:10 we see the account of people being conscious after death and asking God, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” This is before the resurrection. They aren't sleeping.

Jesus speaks to the criminal on his right and says "Truly I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise."

Paul say in 2 Cor. 5:8, "we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord."

Sleep is a common biblical metaphor for death of the body—in distinction from the soul. John 11 provides an example. Here Jesus tells his disciples, “‘Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep but I am going there to wake him up. He didn't mean Lazarus' soul was sleeping.

Acts 7: 54 The Jewish leaders were infuriated by Stephen’s accusation, and they shook their fists at him in rage. 55 But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, gazed steadily into heaven and saw the glory of God, and he saw Jesus standing in the place of honor at God’s right hand.
Stephen didn't go into a deep sleep until the judgement, he went straight to God.
The soul leaves the body at death. Many people have experienced this reality when in the presence of a loved ones passing.

John 11:23–27:

Jesus said to her, "Your brother will rise again." Martha said to him, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day." Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?" She said to Him, "Yes, Lord; I have believed that You are the Christ, the Son of God, even He who comes into the world."

Notice Jesus corrected Martha's belief that her brother would only "live" in the resurrection. In contrast, Jesus revealed that believers will live even if they die, and in fact, they will never die in the way that our bodies do.

I do know that Jesus Himself is THE resurrcetion!
However, there seems to be an issue thats not being discussed, and that is in what I previously quoted:
> So is David asleep in his grave still?
Apparently so, because he was not one of those that arose from their graves after Jesus' resurrection. Matthew 27:52-53.
However, by that resurrection, it did show that the Saints who did rise from the dead, did so right from the last placement of their physical bodies.
How do you answer that?

 

[r1xlx]

The saints of Matthew 27 were people who had heard Jesus and had been killed for being Christian.
They like Lazarus and the others that Jesus, the apostles and the prophets raised, had all died and been raised to life AS WITNESSES LIKE JESUS himself to the power and promise of Resurrection. It is logical to believe that all of them lived on until dying natural deaths. We are not told of their ultimate end but GOD being GOD will have no difficulty in resurrecting them when Jesus returns or on Judgment Day. That thief on the cross will also be raised up but is presently in his grave.
The saints had obviously not gone to heaven at death as Jesus said no-one but himself had done.
David and all others except possible Enoch and Elijah are still in their graves.
Don't get caught up in unprofitable nit-picking.
Paul told Timothy: 1:3 3s I urged you on my departure to Macedonia, you should stay on at Ephesus to instruct certain men not to teach false doctrines 4or devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies, which promote speculation rather than the stewardship of God’s work, which is by faith.

 

[r1xlx]

Sinners, etc, go to some holding place to wait for the White Throne judgement.

Some people learn Jesus is Lord now, others learn at the White Throne Judgment.
See how that wotks out for you.

Jesus is presently sat on GOD's right hand.
All the dead are in their graves and their thoughts have perished = they cannot know who or what they were or who GOD and Jesus are?

 

[r1xlx]

Where in scripture does it say anyone is asleep in Jesus?

At the Transfiguration of Jesus (Matt. 17:1-8) we see Moses and Elijah who were alive, they were not sleeping in their graves.

In Revelation 6:10 we see the account of people being conscious after death and asking God, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” This is before the resurrection. They aren't sleeping.

Jesus speaks to the criminal on his right and says "Truly I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise."

Paul say in 2 Cor. 5:8, "we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord."

Sleep is a common biblical metaphor for death of the body—in distinction from the soul. John 11 provides an example. Here Jesus tells his disciples, “‘Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep but I am going there to wake him up. He didn't mean Lazarus' soul was sleeping.

Acts 7: 54 The Jewish leaders were infuriated by Stephen’s accusation, and they shook their fists at him in rage. 55 But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, gazed steadily into heaven and saw the glory of God, and he saw Jesus standing in the place of honor at God’s right hand.
Stephen didn't go into a deep sleep until the judgement, he went straight to God.
The soul leaves the body at death. Many people have experienced this reality when in the presence of a loved ones passing.

John 11:23–27:

Jesus said to her, "Your brother will rise again." Martha said to him, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day." Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?" She said to Him, "Yes, Lord; I have believed that You are the Christ, the Son of God, even He who comes into the world."

Notice Jesus corrected Martha's belief that her brother would only "live" in the resurrection. In contrast, Jesus revealed that believers will live even if they die, and in fact, they will never die in the way that our bodies do.

As I have said so many times; Satan is delighted you preach a false Gospel.

 

[Renniks]

I do know that Jesus Himself is THE resurrcetion!
However, there seems to be an issue thats not being discussed, and that is in what I previously quoted:
> So is David asleep in his grave still?
Apparently so, because he was not one of those that arose from their graves after Jesus' resurrection. Matthew 27:52-53.
However, by that resurrection, it did show that the Saints who did rise from the dead, did so right from the last placement of their physical bodies.
How do you answer that?

His body is still in his grave. His soul is with his Savior.
" My soul finds rest in God alone; my salvation comes from him. ... Find rest, O my soul, in God alone; my hope comes from him. He alone is my rock and my salvation; he is my fortress, I will not be shaken. My salvation and my honor depend on God ; he is my mighty rock, my refuge."

 

[Renniks]

As I have said so many times; Satan is delighted you preach a false Gospel.

It would help if you told us what cult you are promoting. Can't make any sense of your criptic insults. I quoted scripture, which you claim comes from Satan.?

 

[marks]

As I have said so many times; Satan is delighted you preach a false Gospel.

You speak for Satan?

 

[Enoch111]

The saints had obviously not gone to heaven at death as Jesus said no-one but himself had done. David and all others except possible Enoch and Elijah are still in their graves.

THIS IS JUST UNADULTERATED NONSENSE. Almost all the false teachers (and many uniformed Christians) misinterpret John 3:13.

So you need to decide if you really want the truth, or are you here just to promote false teachings and lies?