The doctrine of the trinity, it's origins

[Heart2Soul]

thanks for the reply Marksman, listen to this scripture, John 16:2 "They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service".

and for the scared one who confess to be christians, but..... John 12:42 "Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue".

if they throw you out, then they are doing you a favor. TAKE HOPE, for,
Matthew 7:13 "Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Matthew 7:14 "Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Matthew 7:15 "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Matthew 7:16 "Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Matthew 7:17 "Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Matthew 7:18 "A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. (ONE MIGHT WANT TO READ THAT AGAIN)
Matthew 7:19 "Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

so just because the masses, "THINK", they are right, don't make them right. only a few will find the, "strait gate".

be blessed.

PICJAG.

I have shared with you privately what He spoke to me on this subject and reading some posts I have received even more clarification.....
One thing that really got my attention was that the Trinity teaching was a doctrine created by man.....that is a big issue for me because I refuse to follow any doctrine that man has created....the only doctrine I follow is that which the Apostles taught.

 

[Dcopymope]

So you are not bothered whether one is teaching error?

I am, just not torn up about it since I don't really see it as a salvation issue.

 

[101G]

lets look at the Name of God. since one poster stated that the titles of God are interchangeable, well what about God's name. lets prove this out or not.

scripture, John 5:43 "I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive".

ok, what is the Father's Name? is it Jehovah in English, or is it Yahweh in the Hebrew. well it's neither. so why is God the one whom many called the Father say his Nme is "Jehovah". well the bible say different. for if the son come in his Father's name and the name he come in is "JESUS" what do that tell you? thank you, the Father's name is JESUS, can the Lord jesus lie?. NO, lets break it down

we know that, "I AM", is an emphatic verb, which is a name that describe what God is, so where did the Names Jehovah, and, Yahweh come from?. these name came from, what is know as the tetragrammaton, and men tampered with it by adding vowels to these four letters. the tetragrammaton is a term from the Greek word, τετραγράμματον, meaning, "a word having four letters". It is the Hebrew written word, or four letters, (יהוה), Yodh, He, Waw, He, hence the translation into English, YHWH, or JHVH by some. these four letters, suppose to be the unpronounced name of God. and from these four letters come the man made names Yahweh, Hebrew, and Jehovah, English.yes man made.

understand, a name is an Identifier, as to what and, or who you are. we need to clarify the "Truth" here in the Name of GOD. Now the question is, what is God proper/PERSONAL name. is it Jehovah, English or Yahweh, in Hebrew. well it's neither, Jehovah, nor Yahweh. lets see how they derived those names from the tetragrammaton. The word "JEHOVAH" was formed by merging the three vowels (e, o, and a) into the Romanized (Latinized) four letter version JHVH to get, JeHoVaH. and the word "YAHWEH" was formed by merging the vowels (a, and e), into the four letter version to get, YaHWeH. so we have the English man made, and the Hebrew man made form of God's supposed unpronounced name. here is the mistake. they, (the translator), added vowels to the four letter consonant, to make up a name to pronounce. one can never add or take away from the WORD of God. they added vowels to give God a personal name, because they knew that YHWH is a verb, and not a noun. and because the suppose name was lost, which the Jews said was forbidden to pronounce, they made a guess at the name where pointers should be. this was a grave mistake on their part. when you add to the word of God you just put the noose around your neck. arbitrarily, the translators injected the vowels into the four letter consonant to come up with the names, "YaHWeH", and, "JeHoVaH". when adding to the word of God you have srarted on the road to destruction.

JESUS, or YESHUA come from. it is the Strong's # is (H3442), look this Strong’s number up. it is written Yod-Shin-Vav-Ayin, it is a masculine noun that means, "He is salvation" or "He saves”. for only God SAVES. H3442 יֵשׁוַּע Yeshuwa` (yay-shoo'-ah) n/l.
1. he will save.
2. Jeshua, the name of ten Israelites, also of a place in Israel.
[for H3091]
KJV: Jeshua.
Root(s): H3091

so God's personal name is JESUS. as to "WHO" he is in Name. so the baptizing in the Name of the Father, the son, and the Holy Spirit is JESUS.

PICJAG.

 

[101G]

I have shared with you privately what He spoke to me on this subject and reading some posts I have received even more clarification.....
One thing that really got my attention was that the Trinity teaching was a doctrine created by man.....that is a big issue for me because I refuse to follow any doctrine that man has created....the only doctrine I follow is that which the Apostles taught.

I agree, but making a doctrine is ok only if it lines up with the word of God, (no contridictions), but in agreement with God written word. 1 Corinthians 14:26 "How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying". understand, GOD works through his Body, like the apostles, and also gifted men and women today. but as the Lord said, "you will know them by their fruit". so be a fruit inspector.

PICJAG.

 

[Heart2Soul]

I agree, but making a doctrine is ok only if it lines up with the word of God, (no contridictions), but in agreement with God written word. 1 Corinthians 14:26 "How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying". understand, GOD works through his Body, like the apostles, and also gifted men and women today. but as the Lord said, "you will know them by their fruit". so be a fruit inspector.

PICJAG.

Sound doctrine is good for reproof....and that is what the Apostles taught. Doctrine based on the foundation of the Church that Christ built and is Chief Cornerstone of....and the Doctrine of Salvation....

 

[101G]

Sound doctrine is good for reproof....and that is what the Apostles taught. Doctrine based on the foundation of the Church that Christ built and is Chief Cornerstone of....and the Doctrine of Salvation....

I agree 100%.

PICJAG.

 

[DNB]

So you are not bothered what you teach is the truth or not?

marksman please, don't argue in circles. We are commenting and expositing on what we believe to be the truth, and why.
Don't jump to conclusions before the verdict is in from the forum, for that's why we're here. For, obviously I'm prepared to state that you have absolutely no reverence for the truth, just as easily. Which i do believe.

marksman, did I just completely misunderstand your position? Or, what you were actually getting at?

 

[101G]

We are commenting and expositing on what we believe to be the truth

that's a dangerious statement, "what we believe to be the truth", have you not already believed, and now should "KNOW"?

PICJAG.

 

[Dcopymope]

marksman please, don't argue in circles. We are commenting and expositing on what we believe to be the truth, and why.
Don't jump to conclusions before the verdict is in from the forum, for that's why we're here. For, obviously I'm prepared to state that you have absolutely no reverence for the truth, just as easily. Which i do believe.

marksman, did I just completely misunderstand your position? Or, what you were actually getting at?

I don't believe there ever will be a verdict on it on this earth. Now in the earth to come, the true nature of the Godhead will become readily apparent when we see 'God Almighty' and the 'Word of God' sitting next to each other on their own thrones, as John plainly depicted in the very last chapter of revelation.

 

[DNB]

I must admit I do have a problem with the idea of a trinity. In one church I was in I confessed to this fact and was stripped of all ministry and told I would not be allowed to do anything until I didn't have a problem with the Trinity.

Recently I read that the New Testament Church did not preach or believe in a trinity. It did not come into being until 246 AD and was an invention of the catholic church which would not surprise me as they tend to make up things as they go along to give the priesthood more power. What is more powerful that a doctrine which no one understands except the priest?

marksman, i trust that you have read your Bible, and I assume several times, to say the least.
Thus, do you see the doctrine of the trinity there (rhetorical)?
marksman, that church that imposed their views upon you, remember this, as 'concerned' as they are with your salvation now, they will not by their own accord, or by God's permission, come to your defense on Judgement Day. Do not be forced into something that you are not convicted of, you will only have yourself to blame on that Day. There will be no '...well they coerced me to believe it...' excuses.
Don't ever let them intimidate you, for one, that's usually a sign that they can't compel you with wisdom and truth. An two, like I said, they will not stick their necks out for you on Judgment Day, saying '...it was our fault, we lead him astray...' I'm alluding to their duplicity and cowardice, and thus, their lack of truth and wisdom.

 

[101G]

I don't believe there ever will be a verdict on it on this earth. Now in the earth to come, the true nature of the Godhead will become readily apparent when we see 'God Almighty' and the 'Word of God' sitting next to each other on their own thrones, as John plainly depicted in the very last chapter of revelation.

ERROR, this is the thinking of the natural mind, listen, Romans 1:20 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse".
see, that an excuse in not knowing. you say you believe bible, well it just said you can KNOW. so what's the problem? bad teaching? and that's still no excuse, READ for yourself... with the Holy Ghost. for you have not because ye ask not.

PICJAG.

 

[DNB]

that's a dangerious statement, "what we believe to be the truth", have you not already believed, and now should "KNOW"?

PICJAG.

I'm not that bold, no. I'd rather speak my convictions, and then let others decide if what I'm saying aligns with their understanding of God, and His Word.

 

[DNB]

I don't believe there ever will be a verdict on it on this earth. Now in the earth to come, the true nature of the Godhead will become readily apparent when we see 'God Almighty' and the 'Word of God' sitting next to each other on their own thrones, as John plainly depicted in the very last chapter of revelation.

Well, you're right, as far as anyone having the right to claim divine truth to their position. But, God has directed us in His Word, it shouldn't be beyond us to discern wisdom from foolishness, sense from nonsense, God's glory from His defamation.
I truly believe that demonstrably, the trinity is utter foolishness and satanic. This should be easy enough to dissuade someone. I believe that it's perilous to believe in it, and ignoble to God, on all accounts.

 

[101G]

I'm not that bold, no. I'd rather speak my convictions, and then let others decide if what I'm saying aligns with their understanding of God, and His Word.

thanks for the reply, but as a child of God I'm BOLD in HIM, did you see I worded that... (smile)... IN "HIM". for what men think there in on Judge of me but the Lord. be strong in the Lord and in the Power of his might. see, I keep telling you it's not about 101G, ... stick to what you said, " commenting and expositing on what we believe". ....... (smile).
anything else is Just vain babbling.

PICJAG.

 

[DNB]

I have shared with you privately what He spoke to me on this subject and reading some posts I have received even more clarification.....
One thing that really got my attention was that the Trinity teaching was a doctrine created by man.....that is a big issue for me because I refuse to follow any doctrine that man has created....the only doctrine I follow is that which the Apostles taught.

H2S, if I may, I think that that's fantastic that you have not succumbed to such a radically confusing, and utterly Biblically discreet (if at all), doctrine.
On this forum I believe that the majority are trinitarian (as the logo implies), and many forum's statement of faith demands allegiance to the doctrine of the trinity. My point is, we're outnumbered. Thus, your boldness and convictions are commendable. Remember, many are called, few are chosen.
And just so I don't appear as an ally just yet, I'd like to make it clear that I don't deify Jesus in any manner. So I profoundly do not hold to 101G's views either.
But, I meant every word about your boldness, and your insistence on not just taking people's word for granted.

 

[DNB]

thanks for the reply, but as a child of God I'm BOLD in HIM, did you see I worded that... (smile)... IN "HIM". for what men think there in on Judge of me but the Lord. be strong in the Lord and in the Power of his might. see, I keep telling you it's not about 101G, ... stick to what you said, " commenting and expositing on what we believe". ....... (smile).
anything else is Just vain babbling.

PICJAG.

Well 101G, you are implying that whatever you believe then, is 100% accurate? I cannot make that claim right now, and I have heard many eminent theologians state the same i.e. they could be wrong on some of the positions that they hold.
I am 100% convinced that the trinity is satanic, but as to my own Christology, i will only give 85%+ . As I would with my soteriology, eschatology, ecclesiologies, and so on. To the point, I highly discredit anyone that claims that their position is tantamount to God's. Meaning, it convinces me that they're not even close.

 

[Dcopymope]

Well, you're right, as far as anyone having the right to claim divine truth to their position. But, God has directed us in His Word, it shouldn't be beyond us to discern wisdom from foolishness, sense from nonsense, God's glory from His defamation.
I truly believe that demonstrably, the trinity is utter foolishness and satanic. This should be easy enough to dissuade someone. I believe that it's perilous to believe in it, and ignoble to God, on all accounts.

Well, if the doctrine claims that the son is equal to his Father, then its false on its face, because if the son is truly equal to his Father, we shouldn't be calling him our mediator. He represents something more than that, and this is according to both the "diversified oneness" doctrine and the trinity doctrine. Jesus is either the high priest who intercedes on our behalf to the higher authority, or he is not, and he IS the higher authority, which is absurd.

 

[DNB]

Well, if the doctrine claims that the son is equal to his Father, then its false on its face, because if the son is truly equal to his Father, we shouldn't be calling him our mediator. He represents something more than that, and this is according to both the "diversified oneness" doctrine and the trinity doctrine. Jesus is either the high priest who intercedes on our behalf to the higher authority, or he is not, and he IS the higher authority, which is absurd.

Well, there you go, I think that you just gave sound and fundamental reasons to, at least, undermine that belief. So when you said that we won't know for sure until the End, some things, at least, I think that we can confidently reject, as you just begun to prove, I believe.

 

[101G]

Well 101G, you are implying that whatever you believe then, is 100% accurate? I cannot make that claim right now, and I have heard many eminent theologians state the same i.e. they could be wrong on some of the positions that they hold.
I am 100% convinced that the trinity is satanic, but as to my own Christology, i will only give 85%+ . As with my soteriology, eschatology, ecclesiologies and so on. To the point, I highly discredit anyone that claims that their position is tantamount to God's. Meaning, it convinces me that they're not even close.

I agree that the trinity is a false doctrine. and from Genesis to Revelation the bible prove that it's a false doctrine. so at least we're in agreement on that.

PICJAG.

 

[Dcopymope]

Well, there you go, I think that you just gave sound and fundamental reasons to, at least, undermine that belief. So when you said that we won't know for sure until the End, some things, at least, I think that we can confidently reject, as you just begun to prove, I believe.

Right, well, I thought I proved this to be the case already with my dissertation of revelation. However, all the dissertations doesn't compare to being a witness to it. Seeing the son and father face to face on their thrones is the ultimate form of evidence. It will certainly disprove once and for all the diversified oneness claptrap.