A Faulty Narrative

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John Caldwell

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i think white people are afraid of receiving the same treatment we have dished out to black people.
The problem with your thought (above) is it is a false narrative.

Systemic racism happened in the past but for the most part not by people living to day to people living today. What some are encouraging is that people who are living today, who have never been subjected to systemic racism, implement systemic racism against other people for injustices those people never committed.

Racism is never the solution.
 
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Heart2Soul

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i think white people are afraid of receiving the same treatment we have dished out to black people.
Please don't say "we" because I have never disrespected a black person, my ancestors never owned a slave, AND they fought and died in the Civil War to free them from slavery.
 

Stan B

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Christians should simply boycott Christianity Today.

BTW, there is an article today which states that the first slave owner in America was a black man.
The white man did not capture slaves in Africa. Africans had already done that for them. Africans were the ones who captured their own people to sell to slave traders who arrived in port.
 

marks

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Black families were broken apart during slavery, over and over again so they never had a history of strong families.
Yes, and as this sort of thing repeats from generation to generation, it needs to be interupted.

This is, I think, a true narrative. Slavery of blacks deeply affected their ability to attach emotionally, due to the disruptions to the families, and the treatment from the slave owners. And those without healthy attachments will be less capable of forming healthy attachments going forward.

But after a couple of generations after emancipation this is correctable as people can settle into their new paradigm, and you have children being raised by parents who were not raised by slaves or their children.

Now we have a generation who were raised by the children of those suffered more heavily under racism. Not to say that it's over, but we know it was much worse a couple of generations ago.

And while they should be at this point settling into their new non-racist paradigm, exploring and attaining the opportunities that weren't available to their grandparents, they aren't, because a non-racial problem, police violence, is being voiced as a racial problem, taking one small slice of reality and presenting as if it were the whole thing.

I love what Morgan Freeman said in an interview. "I'll stop calling you a white man, and I'll ask you to stop calling me a black man."

I think the true narrative is that there are too many injuries and deaths at the hands of police officers. There is a perception of police as being against us instead of helping us. These need to be addressed. We may need to completely disband and rebuild some police departments. We may need to change recruiting and evaluating and training methods.

Oh, and I enjoy you're posts very much! Any time we are disagreed is to me a call to reevaluate.

Much love!
 
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Agios

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i think white people are afraid of receiving the same treatment we have dished out to black people.
"We" - lol - none of us have ever been nor ever be slave owners, my friends are I are all of different races and ethnicity groups. Stop your delusions.

None of us can even understand why there is affirmative action. My buddies want to be hired and accepted to school for their achievements and skills, not because the color of their skin. LOL

Affirmative action IS racist, but the left thinks this is a good thing. My black friends are offended by this.
 

marks

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i see no evidence of black lives matter promoting black superiority - none at all. White people like to claim that all lives matter, which is true, but misses the point.
I see it in what they are asking for, lifetime free education for blacks, for instance.

I see "black lives matter" as a racist statement in and of itself. As if . . . others don't? As if . . . I think black lives don't? This is not solving racism in my opinion, it is perpetuating racism. And when the marches become unruly, people getting afraid, turning into riots. My aunt in Portland told me what it was like being woken from sound sleep at 11:30 pm by 'protesters' going down her street, shouting, banging pots and pans, all the while knowing a couple of days before they had trashed parts of Portland.

Black Lives Matter! Black Lives Matter!

Reparations? From those who never owned slaves, to those who never were slaves.

I completely agree with you, this is a huge part of the population not living up to their potential. But it's not because white people are racist against black people.

I think it was Denzel Washington who was talking about his childhood, and how he and his friends were all commiting crimes long before they knew anything about the "system" or "racism", he said it was that nobody is being raised with fathers.

I've heard that 80% of black families don't have the father in the house. Let's address that. Black on black crime is so much higher than white on black crime. This IS systemic! Black on black crime in predominantly black communities is sky high! Let's address that!

Or just march around, attracting rioters and looters and arsonists. Just rip up monuments no matter what others think or want, just graffiti everything everywhere, bang your pots and pans in the middle of the night until everyone is sick of you! But don't then say it's because you're black.

Ok . . . this whole thing is getting to me a little . . .

Much love!
 

aspen

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"We" - lol - none of us have ever been nor ever be slave owners, my friends are I are all of different races and ethnicity groups. Stop your delusions.

None of us can even understand why there is affirmative action. My buddies want to be hired and accepted to school for their achievements and skills, not because the color of their skin. LOL

Affirmative action IS racist, but the left thinks this is a good thing. My black friends are offended by this.

why? affirmative action allows everyone to have equal representation at work and university
 

aspen

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I see it in what they are asking for, lifetime free education for blacks, for instance.

I see "black lives matter" as a racist statement in and of itself. As if . . . others don't? As if . . . I think black lives don't? This is not solving racism in my opinion, it is perpetuating racism. And when the marches become unruly, people getting afraid, turning into riots. My aunt in Portland told me what it was like being woken from sound sleep at 11:30 pm by 'protesters' going down her street, shouting, banging pots and pans, all the while knowing a couple of days before they had trashed parts of Portland.

Black Lives Matter! Black Lives Matter!

Reparations? From those who never owned slaves, to those who never were slaves.

I completely agree with you, this is a huge part of the population not living up to their potential. But it's not because white people are racist against black people.

I think it was Denzel Washington who was talking about his childhood, and how he and his friends were all commiting crimes long before they knew anything about the "system" or "racism", he said it was that nobody is being raised with fathers.

I've heard that 80% of black families don't have the father in the house. Let's address that. Black on black crime is so much higher than white on black crime. This IS systemic! Black on black crime in predominantly black communities is sky high! Let's address that!

Or just march around, attracting rioters and looters and arsonists. Just rip up monuments no matter what others think or want, just graffiti everything everywhere, bang your pots and pans in the middle of the night until everyone is sick of you! But don't then say it's because you're black.

Ok . . . this whole thing is getting to me a little . . .

Much love!

well, in their defense, no one has really listen so far - frankly, it sounds like several of you in this conversation are not interested in trying to understand them. i am am not sure why it is so difficult to see the racism within our culture.
 

John Caldwell

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why? affirmative action allows everyone to have equal representation at work and university
It depends on what one means by "affirmative action". If you mean rejecting systemic racism, then yes. I agree. If you mean removing race from the equation in hiring and promoting practices, then I agree.

But if you mean the practice or policy of favoring individuals belonging to groups known to have been discriminated against previously then this is just a continuation of racism and an implementation of systemic racism.
 
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John Caldwell

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well, in their defense, no one has really listen so far - frankly, it sounds like several of you in this conversation are not interested in trying to understand them. i am am not sure why it is so difficult to see the racism within our culture.
Let me ask this - do you understand the difference between racism and systemic racism?

I ask because systemic racism does not exist in the United States. But racism does exist within individuals regardless of race. And past systemic racism did create problems that our culture needs to address.
 
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marks

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well, in their defense, no one has really listen so far - frankly, it sounds like several of you in this conversation are not interested in trying to understand them. i am am not sure why it is so difficult to see the racism within our culture.
I do see racism in our culture.

When I was in my twenties and living with my non-white girlfriend, in an almost entirely non-white neighborhood (there was 1 white guy, me), her family put the word out that I wasn't to be touched. That kept me safe. Only that. I was the only white guy that could walk that neighborhood.

A few years before that, I had been traveling, and was in Washington State at the time of the apple harvest. Fantastic! I thought to myself . . . as much work as I want! Not so. The non-white workers made it perfectly clear what would happen to me if I tried to work alongside them. And since I didn't want to be buried in an apple orchard, I moved on. Wrong color!

I hear them. But they are being fed a narrative, and they are buying into it, and it's going to become less likely, in my opinion, to solve there actually problems, and more likely to create new problems.

And the first thing to do in my view is to remove skin color from all news reporting. But that doesn't fit the media narrative!

Much love!
 

marks

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Let me ask this - do you understand the difference between racism and systemic racism?

I ask because systemic racism does not exist in the United States. But racism does exist within individuals regardless of race. And past systemic racism did create problems that our culture needs to address.
Well said.

:)
 

Enoch111

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oh my gosh! well, it looks like white people have finally been vindicated! right here on Christianity boards! congrats, enoch!
This whole race conflict is BOGUS. Blacks were doing just fine until black racist Obama showed up. BLM is as bogus as Obama.

Had Abraham Lincoln and his officials been smart, they could have arranged one of two things for all Southern ex-slaves: (1) given them a chunk of territory in the "unassigned lands" within Oklahoma territory, with at least 160 acres per person and a generous cash settlement to get re-established or (2) purchased a similar territory from Britain in Ghana (West Africa) and resettled them there on the same terms. Now Ghana is inviting dissatisfied black to emigrate there.

At the same time, he should have compensated every slave owner with a very fair settlement per slave. This would have cost him a fraction of what was wasted in that Civil War, which produced nothing but animosity between the North and the South. There would have been (1) no bloodshed, (2) no carpetbaggers, (3) no scalawags, and (4) no destruction of the South. So in fact, Lincoln messed up big time, while he enslaved all the Indian tribes while having their buffalo exterminated.
 

Enoch111

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i think white people are afraid of receiving the same treatment we have dished out to black people.
Looks like you should put on black face (like Trudeau and many others did) and take a knee with BLM. They would tell you "Whitey, go home!"
 

Agios

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why? affirmative action allows everyone to have equal representation at work and university
That is not the definition of affirmative action, this is: (in the context of the allocation of resources or employment) the practice or policy of favoring individuals belonging to groups known to have been discriminated against previously.

You can't favor one group and not discriminate against another. That's racist.

When definition of racism has changed, whites can't be discriminated against because what? We're white? LOL
Racism is treating another person differently because of their race, regardless of what race it is.
 

Agios

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Let me ask this - do you understand the difference between racism and systemic racism?

I ask because systemic racism does not exist in the United States. But racism does exist within individuals regardless of race. And past systemic racism did create problems that our culture needs to address.
Systemic racism is a term coined inside the realm of social engineering. People are taught how to think, how to feel, who to be against - no thinking for themselves.
 

Grailhunter

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Irrational thought patterns. Logic is something that not everyone can grasp....reality is difficult for some people.

I tell people that you cannot read the Bible like it is the latest edition of the Sunday paper. Likewise we cannot judge history by modern perspectives. We would like to think that as times goes on we become more intelligent, more compassionate, and more fair, but that is not entirely true.

The United States was the first country to promote Freedom and Liberty. Christianity had been around for nearly 1800 years before the Declaration of Independence and no Christian country before that had established or fought for Freedom and Liberty....Freedom of religion....life, liberty and the persecute of happiness....government for the people and by the people....but it still fell short in some areas.

The studies of cultures and societies is complex....the term normative is a deep subject. In each culture...even Christian cultures as they progressed in time periods produced what you could call a reality....meaning what people thought was true in each time periods. There was a time that Christians believed that witches were everywhere and supported the horrors and atrocities of the witch hunt/heresy campaigns....something like 3 million women horribly tortured and killed between around 1200 and the mid 1700's....a lot if it at the hands of the Church and the rest at the hands of Christian communities.

Normative....the influenza virus has killed several million people worldwide over the years and in the last 50 years has killed around 35,000 a year (give or take) in the United States. It has become a norm....you can't hardly get people to take precautions for it. The Corona virus show up and because it is new, people are shaking in their boots. Traffic deaths usually run around 30,000 something a year in the United States....but people are not afraid of their cars..trucks...no laws to keep children out of cars. Normative is an interesting study. Cultural realities per time periods... good to understand, as the past, because if you don't....your perception of the present may not be real.

There was a time that slavery was part of many cultures....Yeshua never denounced slavery. Was Yeshua wrong not to demand an end to slavery? In His day slavery had nothing to do with skin color. Should the blacks hate Him for that? It was the norm and slavery continued to be part of many Christian cultures until the 1800's. Slavery was abolished in the United States and Europe at about the same time.

The conquest of "uncivilized peoples" at one time was the norm. It did not matter if it was Europe, North and South America, Africa or Australia. God's rule was that when you took over a region, you were to kill all that breaths so you would not have to fight them again. The Europeans did not do that and as time went on they tried to "compensate" them for the loss of their lands. That was the normative of the various time periods....Christian do not conquer regions anymore. But because we now consider it wrong, it sets up conditions that we cannot go back and correct. We are not going to give the land back to the Indians, the whites are not going to go back to Europe and the blacks are not going to go back to Africa. So we have to move forward the best we can.

So we have to deal with our reality now...where do we go from here? Perceptions can hider progress if they keep looking behind them and not where they should be going.

Should women hold the witch hunts against men today?
Women were considered property in Judaism and they were part of husbandry in polygamist relationships. Should they hold that against men today? God set the rules to regulate polygamy and concubinage. Should Women hold that against God?

If you look at history, Christianity did not initially do a whole lot for them. Should women hold that against the Bible? Against Christianity? Should they have a chip on their shoulders? Should they find a different religion that was more fair?
Should women hold their lack of rights in the past against our country now?
The Jews were slaves, should they have a chip on their shoulders?
These questions can be asked of blacks....do they want to waller in the past or do they want to look at where we should go from here. The chip on their shoulder that justifies all the violence actually keeps them from moving forward. Thinking that someone owes them something justifies their reliance on welfare systems...their demand for special rights and tolerance of violent behavior. That their fair share is in someone else's pocket....which justifies robberies, hold ups, home invasions, and carjackings. It is all wrong thinking...no logic.


The majority of blacks are moving out of that, and most blacks are doing well....and they know the same thing. Wallering in the past is like an anchor to their success, it is a dead weight. I live in an area where blacks come to live....outside of St. Louis which has one the highest black on black death rates in America. They come here to work, to buy homes...live among the whites...why? Because they want to live in area where their children can play in the front yard without getting shot! They want to live in an area where their skin color is not associated with violent crime and drug trafficking. They are not interested in having drug peddlers for their children.

You can study the past and you can learn from the past but it is incorrect to judge the past by modern perceptions and norms. The future is a blank canvas, the picture we want to paint is up to us and them. The black minorities have the brush, the picture that the black minorities want to paint is up to them...The fact is many minorities are painting their future standing side by side with everyone else...so it is a fact and it is a reality....it is possible because it is happening. But for the troubled angry minority of the black minority, they are painting a violent and bloody future. As the old saying goes, "If you keep on doing what you been doing, you are going to keep on getting, what you been getting."

The Black lives matter movement is the worst thing possible for blacks, it is rude, extremely racial, and ignorant. It is like they need a scope to take aim at their own feet....It focuses on the criminal element. How do we handle arrests....How do we handle arrests....How do we handle arrests....they demand that we do better....that is wrong thinking....The logical question is, how do they stop associating their skin color with crime? How can they get off of welfare? How can they be successful? How can skin color not really matter when it come to being successful in our society? These protests will set them back years....we burn, we destroy, we assault, we murder, and we rape....now we want to be liked....we want be accepted....we want special treatment because you owe us! People shy away from rattle snakes....they may leave them alone but the only respect they will get is the respect a person has for a rattle snake....you avoid being around them. All this is wrong thinking and all this is wrong actions...they are moving this in the wrong direction.
 
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John Caldwell

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Systemic racism is a term coined inside the realm of social engineering. People are taught how to think, how to feel, who to be against - no thinking for themselves.
It is. But more importantly systemic racism relates not to individual people but to a system. Systemic racism in the US became illegal in 1964. Since that time it has been eliminated (you will not find restaurants saying one race is not allowed to enter, or a company with a policy of not hiring individuals based on race).

What we have today is a little of the effects of past systemic racism (one person may have struggles related to his grandfather's struggles). But this is not a disadvantage disporportionate to life in general. The "narrative" is a black man was encumbered with obstacles because of his race that other people may not have faced. While this could be true of any individual of any race, it is a false narrative. We are born where we are born. We are created with the skin color we have. A black man can complain of having to eat cornbread and milk growing up in poverty because his great great grandfather was a slave. But at the same time a white man (me) grew up eating cornbread and milk because that was what we had. The advantage vs disadvantage is a false narrative because it assumes the prevailing factor to be race.

So how is past systemic racism made right? It isn't. You can't right wrongs of the past if you were not a party of the wrong. We cannot make right the murders of Hitler. We cannot make right past racism. What we can do is learn from history and try to eradicate racism from the systems (which we have done).

The harder part is whether it is incumbent on us to eradicate racial prejudices in the thoughts of individuals. This is difficult because it ventures into "thought police" or at least penalizing individuals for expressing their thoughts which may be wrong and counter to accepted society. As Christians we can definitely preach against racism and racist ideas. But in a society which advocates freedom of speech I am not sure the best action.

I am sure, however, that implementing a program of systematic racism will never solve any issue.
 

Stan B

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I completely agree with you, this is a huge part of the population not living up to their potential. But it's not because white people are racist against black people.

I think it was Denzel Washington who was talking about his childhood, and how he and his friends were all commiting crimes long before they knew anything about the "system" or "racism", he said it was that nobody is being raised with fathers.

I've heard that 80% of black families don't have the father in the house. Let's address that. Black on black crime is so much higher than white on black crime. This IS systemic! Black on black crime in predominantly black communities is sky high! Let's address that!
I recall one of the Presidents addressing that. In his speech he said that
he was aware of black families with 9 children, each one with different father, none of which were living at home.

No one owes the black community anything. These slaves were bought a fair market value, so they owned the slaves.

Nothing wrong with owning a slave. No law in the Bible that suggests it is wrong. In fact God encouraged ownership of slaves, and on occasion actually offered them as rewards.
 
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Prayer Warrior

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If you look at history, Christianity did not initially do a whole lot for them. Should women hold that against the Bible? Against Christianity? Should they have a chip on their shoulders? Should they find a different religion that was more fair?

Lol, what other religion recognizes women as being as important as men? I would say that Christianity excels there, but unfortunately, not all Christian men during the past 2000 years got the memo that in Christ there is no male or female.... I'm not saying that the roles of men and women should be blurred, but God uses women to share the gospel . . . just as powerfully as He uses men. And that is what Jesus said we should be doing.
 
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