At A Crossroad...

[Brakelite]

Funny isnt it I keep bringing up Christ and it upsets people,

Something about Him being a stumbling stone to many and a rock of offense.

Perhaps the Christ you keep bringing up is a different Christ.
He's a stumbling stone to those who don't believe. You seem to be using him to trip up those that do.

 

[Marymog]

Hello all:

I am at a crossroads on how I feel about Christian forums and if I want to participate any longer. I am starting to feel I don't belong on them. My views and values are just too different. I've already quit one forum. Maybe perminantly, maybe not. I will try to be brief, and maybe you can see my frustrations. Here is what I believe:

1. I believe in Jesus Christ. I believe in the person, but also the things he said and did, and I believe in following his teachings, commandments and his ordinances.
2. I believe the Bible is his word. Jesus was the Word made flesh, but I believe the Written Word. Without the Bible, we don't know what Jesus said, did or ordained. It befuddles me how anyone could both attack it and support it at the same time.

I also don't understand how people don't consider everything that was written but would rather drill just one verse without considering the whole scripture.

3. I believe that Christians should go to Church. Yea, I said it! By that, I mean the should gather their physical bodies in one physical place. I also believe there should be order of some sort... In other words, it ain't a pot luck dinner!

4. I believe Churches should have a government structure. Yes, I said that too! It is dangerous, as Paul warned, but it is ordained by God. By no means do I mean it should be the monstrosity it's become. But the Bible does give guidelines... And they don't mean social gatherings where people eat hors de vors and children play with toys provided for them.... Or listen to teaching... Whatever they want to do...

That's a pot lock dinner... And it's stupid and unbiblical to the point that Paul said don't do it. Jesus said not to share children away...

[Sidenote: This is the point where some will chime in and say, "Well the people are the Church, not the building!". Duh? Tell me something I don't know, and when did I ever say anything about a building? I said the people assemble for "Church"]

5. I believe Christians should be givers. Not to the poor and needy, but directly for the teaching! If you have been taught... Give! Support those who teach his Word. A true Man of God will turn around and see that his congregation can make ends meet. Paul did both. He lived on offerings and he distributed them. He called for support of the ministry and likewise support for those in need.

I see a decay in these truths. This time, I didn't give one verse to support what I have said. I've been giving them for nearly 20 years. At least 9 years on this board. But I am happy to say I can give scripture for everything I have said.

Yet, I don't feel there is like feeling amongst boards in general. I don't feel many see these things as important.

I know that many aren't following God's plan. Frankly, I am a bit sad about that, but not too sad... He said it would happen. But just because the masses aren't following the plan doesn't mean the plan is wrong! It's still the way God wanted it done!

So, there's my delemna. Does anyone actually agree with these points I believe are important? They aren't all the things that need to be addressed, but it's a good start.

Hi FHII,

You and I probably don't agree on much doctrine wise. I would hate to see you go if you feel you are getting something of value out of being on a Christian forum.

Do you get anything of value (spiritually) by participating in this forum? If not, maybe it is time to stop focusing your valuable time on this forum and focus in on what brings you spiritual fulfillment.

Hope that helps...God bless...Mary

 

[Brakelite]

, is it moral to ask ppl to pay both tithes and taxes iyo?

Government and church, at least in principle, are supposed to be different independent institutions with different agendas and mission. In an ideal world neither tax or tithe would be necessary. But, I pay tax because I have to, I pay tithe because I want to. There were long extended periods of time when I didn't pay tithe. I want struck down by lightening but I struggled financially. When I did pay tithe I didn't struggle. I just happen to believe that the principles of the OT when it comes to certain concepts, be it tithe, giving, health, didn't just vanish after 33ad. Moral? Maybe not.. Common sense?
Out of necessity the early church experimented with a form of socialism which worked for them at that time, but as the church grew exponentially over the next couple of hundred years sharing of everything and putting everything into a central vault for disposal would have turned the church into a bank. Which did to a certain extent happen in Rome. But elsewhere things were differently administered. I have no details but the church grew in places like Asia and the far east it ended up extending to entire kingdoms turning to Christ. How they organised the finances I have no idea.

 

[Josho]

@FHII and we need a Clint Eastwood in here anyway.

 

[Philip James]

So, there's my delemna. Does anyone actually agree with these points I believe are important?

Hello FHII,

I agree with almost all your points.

I take exception with your point :

By no means do I mean it should be the monstrosity it's become.

Some of its members have done monstrous things, but that is between them and Christ,

But the Church is Holy, and Jesus promised to be with her , till the end of the age..

Please stay,

Peace be with you!

 

[Brakelite]

I am starting to feel I don't belong on them.

I don't want to sound flippant, but none of us belong in this world do we. But we stay because deep down in our hearts we know we have something to contribute... Something positive to offer that might tip the balance in someone's life. So we labor and we fight and we persist and we keep moving forward and we don't give up hope.

My views and values are just too different.

None of us, not even the Catholics God bless them, agree on everything. All our worldviews and values are slightly different, which is what makes us so wonderfully unique and human. And is what makes us such sources of inspiration and enlightenment and "other' perspective which all together by the grace of God creates a broader picture and perspective of who God is.
But I understand where you are coming from. Sometimes it seems the brick wall is winning. But brick walls do come down.
KJV Deuteronomy 31
6 Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid of them: for the LORD thy God, he it is that doth go with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee.
7 And Moses called unto Joshua, and said unto him in the sight of all Israel, Be strong and of a good courage: for thou must go with this people unto the land which the LORD hath sworn unto their fathers to give them; and thou shalt cause them to inherit it.
8 And the LORD, he it is that doth go before thee; he will be with thee, he will not fail thee, neither forsake thee: fear not, neither be dismayed.
And the walls came tumbling down....

 

[Enoch111]

All our worldviews and values are slightly different, which is what makes us so wonderfully unique and human.

Evidently every snowflake is unique. And I'm not talking about the ones with Trump Derangement Syndrome.

 

[Brakelite]

Evidently every snowflake is unique. And I'm not talking about the ones with Trump Derangement Syndrome.

Yes, exactly. And every fingerprint. And every past life experience which bring us to where we are and make us who we are. And God is totally and utterly in love with each and every one of us. Whoever we are. Wherever we are. And He doesn't want to make us all replicas and clones of one another. He wants each and every one of us to retain our unique personalities, yet be perfect expressions of His character and love.

 

[prism]

Hello all:

I am at a crossroads on how I feel about Christian forums and if I want to participate any longer. I am starting to feel I don't belong on them. My views and values are just too different. I've already quit one forum. Maybe perminantly, maybe not. I will try to be brief, and maybe you can see my frustrations. Here is what I believe:

1. I believe in Jesus Christ. I believe in the person, but also the things he said and did, and I believe in following his teachings, commandments and his ordinances.
2. I believe the Bible is his word. Jesus was the Word made flesh, but I believe the Written Word. Without the Bible, we don't know what Jesus said, did or ordained. It befuddles me how anyone could both attack it and support it at the same time.

I also don't understand how people don't consider everything that was written but would rather drill just one verse without considering the whole scripture.

3. I believe that Christians should go to Church. Yea, I said it! By that, I mean the should gather their physical bodies in one physical place. I also believe there should be order of some sort... In other words, it ain't a pot luck dinner!

4. I believe Churches should have a government structure. Yes, I said that too! It is dangerous, as Paul warned, but it is ordained by God. By no means do I mean it should be the monstrosity it's become. But the Bible does give guidelines... And they don't mean social gatherings where people eat hors de vors and children play with toys provided for them.... Or listen to teaching... Whatever they want to do...

That's a pot lock dinner... And it's stupid and unbiblical to the point that Paul said don't do it. Jesus said not to share children away...

[Sidenote: This is the point where some will chime in and say, "Well the people are the Church, not the building!". Duh? Tell me something I don't know, and when did I ever say anything about a building? I said the people assemble for "Church"]

5. I believe Christians should be givers. Not to the poor and needy, but directly for the teaching! If you have been taught... Give! Support those who teach his Word. A true Man of God will turn around and see that his congregation can make ends meet. Paul did both. He lived on offerings and he distributed them. He called for support of the ministry and likewise support for those in need.

I see a decay in these truths. This time, I didn't give one verse to support what I have said. I've been giving them for nearly 20 years. At least 9 years on this board. But I am happy to say I can give scripture for everything I have said.

Yet, I don't feel there is like feeling amongst boards in general. I don't feel many see these things as important.

I know that many aren't following God's plan. Frankly, I am a bit sad about that, but not too sad... He said it would happen. But just because the masses aren't following the plan doesn't mean the plan is wrong! It's still the way God wanted it done!

So, there's my delemna. Does anyone actually agree with these points I believe are important? They aren't all the things that need to be addressed, but it's a good start.

I'm not clear why all this would draw you away from Forums or at least give you pause in your participation in them. As Christians, we can walk and chew gum.

 

[lforrest]

i think we can outgrow message boards.

I totally agree, but I don't think the churches will lead one to such a place in their walk. The church seems inept at bringing people to spiritual maturity. A genuine walk with Christ in obedience to the Holy Spirit is the only way I can see someone gaining this maturity.

I think people can find the fellowship on forums lacking, and no substitute for a real church.

 

[aspen]

I totally agree, but I don't think the churches will lead one to such a place in their walk. The church seems inept at bringing people to spiritual maturity. A genuine walk with Christ in obedience to the Holy Spirit is the only way I can see someone gaining this maturity.

I think people can find the fellowship on forums lacking, and no substitute for a real church.

Perhaps you might want to look beyond the limited history of the Sola churches......i know i am grateful i did

 

[historyb]

I think people can find the fellowship on forums lacking, and no substitute for a real church.

This I agree with. I don't believe it is the churches fault but rather the fault lies with the people who long ago abandoned the faith of the Apostles because they now have a bible and if the people don't like something well then they make their own up 30,000 plus denomantions don't lie.

 

[Brakelite]

This I agree with. I don't believe it is the churches fault but rather the fault lies with the people who long ago abandoned the faith of the Apostles because they now have a bible.

"Thus sayeth the church" is precisely as if you are placing your eternal destiny in the hands of finite sinful men no more interested in your eternal welfare than the hedgehog under my house.
"Thus sayeth the Lord" is placing your eternal destiny in the God who promises His Spirit to lead and guide you into all truth. And that Spirit grants God's people discernment and speaks to individuals and churches, if they are listening, giving them direction and wisdom. Some churches went off the rails by not listening. They started to listen to other voices allowing men to dictate direction and practice. But as Jesus promised, He didn't abandon His people. He raised up other leaders... Established alternative churches... So that the truth of the gospel would not be lost and hell would not prevail.
And God is using different churches according to His will and purpose. Just as he is using different individuals in the media to uphold truth and a clear moral standard... And those journalists, commentators, may not all belong to the same church... Some may not even be Christians, but God can use rocks if He so chooses to glorify Him and are not opposed to His work.
But to claim using the Bible as a means to escape the teachings of the apostles? That simply makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[Brakelite]

Perhaps you might want to look beyond the limited history of the Sola churches......i know i am grateful i did

Perhaps you might want to look at why God raised up those Sola churches and the long unlimited apostate history of the mainline churches... I'm grateful I did.

 

[historyb]

"Thus sayeth the church" is precisely as if you are placing your eternal destiny in the hands of finite sinful men no more interested in your eternal welfare than the hedgehog under my house.

This I disagree with. Christ created the Church, man split it up but still I would rather be under a Church's authority than my own.

 

[prism]

I don't believe it is the churches fault but rather the fault lies with the people who long ago abandoned the faith of the Apostles because they now have a bible...

I'm thankful for the Scriptures without which we would be back under the myths and superstitions of the 'Church' in the Dark Ages.

 

[Brakelite]

This I disagree with. Christ created the Church, man split it up but still I would rather be under a Church's authority than my own.

You are perpetuating a myth that inspired the church of the dark ages to wage war on the scriptures while claiming those same scriptures as the basis for that same war. And resulting in the deaths of many because they upheld scripture above the doctrines and commandments of man, and the authority of scripture, the authority of God's word over that of mortal man.

 

[historyb]

I'm thankful for the Scriptures without which we would be back under the myths and superstitions of the 'Church' in the Dark Ages.

Scriptures were not around for the first four hundred years yet there were many Christians. Even without the Bible I could still be a Christian but I am willing to wager many would not be, the Bible doesn't produce saving Faith God does through hearing.

 

[historyb]

You are perpetuating a myth that inspired the church of the dark ages to wage war on the scriptures while claiming those same scriptures as the basis for that same war. And resulting in the deaths of many because they upheld scripture above the doctrines and commandments of man, and the authority of scripture, the authority of God's word over that of mortal man.

We will have to disagree. I believe the biggest myth is evangelicalism where every man can figure things out for themselves

 

[mjrhealth]

Perhaps the Christ you keep bringing up is a different Christ.
He's a stumbling stone to those who don't believe. You seem to be using him to trip up those that do.

Only to the religious,

The only Christ I know is this one

Mat_7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Joh_14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

but seems many have chosen there "religions" way, like this man,

Mat 22:11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:
Mat 22:12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.