At A Crossroad...

[Brakelite]

could you rephrase this mjr, bc i am not reading what you are meaning, surely

I saw, or didn't see, the same thing. But I thought, that's typical of mjr and

all three are in agreement with you, huh? Bet i could have you contradicting yourself in about three posts lol, how much

could you rephrase this, bc the "them" is not real clear, "them" is the platitudes in the op i guess? ty

yep, them is

• Meeting together
• Having a form of organisation
• Having scripture as the basis for faith and practice
• Jesus is who scripture says He is.
• Every institution on the planet has a means by which members contribute to the welfare and ongoing maintenance of that institution... They may call that by different names... Fees... Subscriptions... The church calls it tithe.

PS the tithe is basically for the carrying out of the mission of the institution... And that goes for clubs, Scout groups, whatever. Not for the lining of pockets of those in leadership. If you disagree with the mission, find another church. If you agree with the mission, but there's no support for it, take the mission elsewhere and do it yourself. God will provide through other means. If your cause is a good one. If God doesn't support it, then I guess it's cause is a bad one. Go back to where you started perhaps. BTW... Benjamin Franklin said that. Thought it worth repeating.

 

[bbyrd009]

Every institution on the planet has a means by which members contribute to the welfare and ongoing maintenance of that institution... They may call that by different names... Fees... Subscriptions... The church calls it tithe.

well, so you say, but wadr both "tithe" and "church" are fairly subjective terms, right? So iow im not disagreeing with the principle, but i would likely disagree with most too-exclusive definintions of those...so, lemme ask you, is it moral to ask ppl to pay both tithes and taxes iyo?

 

[Prayer Warrior]

I am at a crossroads on how I feel about Christian forums and if I want to participate any longer. I am starting to feel I don't belong on them. My views and values are just too different. I've already quit one forum. Maybe perminantly, maybe not. I will try to be brief, and maybe you can see my frustrations.

I can relate. I probably question whether I need to stay here at least once a month, lol. The bottomline for me is obedience to God. If He directs me to stay or leave, that's what I need to do..... I encourage you to seek Him, and I know that He will reveal His will to you. Hope this helps.

 

[101G]

Addressing the OP only, READ 2 Peter chapter 1 completely it's a GOOD READ. and read it again.

thanks.

PICJAG.

 

[Helen]

Hello all:

I am at a crossroads on how I feel about Christian forums and if I want to participate any longer. I am starting to feel I don't belong on them. My views and values are just too different. I've already quit one forum. Maybe perminantly, maybe not. I will try to be brief, and maybe you can see my frustrations. Here is what I believe:

1. I believe in Jesus Christ. I believe in the person, but also the things he said and did, and I believe in following his teachings, commandments and his ordinances.
2. I believe the Bible is his word. Jesus was the Word made flesh, but I believe the Written Word. Without the Bible, we don't know what Jesus said, did or ordained. It befuddles me how anyone could both attack it and support it at the same time.

I also don't understand how people don't consider everything that was written but would rather drill just one verse without considering the whole scripture.

3. I believe that Christians should go to Church. Yea, I said it! By that, I mean the should gather their physical bodies in one physical place. I also believe there should be order of some sort... In other words, it ain't a pot luck dinner!

4. I believe Churches should have a government structure. Yes, I said that too! It is dangerous, as Paul warned, but it is ordained by God. By no means do I mean it should be the monstrosity it's become. But the Bible does give guidelines... And they don't mean social gatherings where people eat hors de vors and children play with toys provided for them.... Or listen to teaching... Whatever they want to do...

That's a pot lock dinner... And it's stupid and unbiblical to the point that Paul said don't do it. Jesus said not to share children away...

[Sidenote: This is the point where some will chime in and say, "Well the people are the Church, not the building!". Duh? Tell me something I don't know, and when did I ever say anything about a building? I said the people assemble for "Church"]

5. I believe Christians should be givers. Not to the poor and needy, but directly for the teaching! If you have been taught... Give! Support those who teach his Word. A true Man of God will turn around and see that his congregation can make ends meet. Paul did both. He lived on offerings and he distributed them. He called for support of the ministry and likewise support for those in need.

I see a decay in these truths. This time, I didn't give one verse to support what I have said. I've been giving them for nearly 20 years. At least 9 years on this board. But I am happy to say I can give scripture for everything I have said.

Yet, I don't feel there is like feeling amongst boards in general. I don't feel many see these things as important.

I know that many aren't following God's plan. Frankly, I am a bit sad about that, but not too sad... He said it would happen. But just because the masses aren't following the plan doesn't mean the plan is wrong! It's still the way God wanted it done!

So, there's my delemna. Does anyone actually agree with these points I believe are important? They aren't all the things that need to be addressed, but it's a good start.

I can hear your frustration.

It’s always hard for us when we firmly believe that we have everything right, and we perfectly understand what God is saying ..and others just aren’t doing what they should be doing , like we are doing.
Agree....That is a tough place to live.

If our God was a “ One size fits all” then all birds would be sparrows, all trees would be Cedars, all flowers would be roses , and all food would be oatmeal.

 

[Enoch111]

Can you imagine how many people would be in heaven if people agreed with Christ, there wouldnt be many at all.

What kind of a comment is that? Are you suggesting that Christians are not in agreement with Christ? Or are you the lone exception?

 

[Helen]

I saw, or didn't see, the same thing. But I thought, that's typical of mjr and
yep, them is

• Meeting together
• Having a form of organisation
• Having scripture as the basis for faith and practice
• Jesus is who scripture says He is.
• Every institution on the planet has a means by which members contribute to the welfare and ongoing maintenance of that institution... They may call that by different names... Fees... Subscriptions... The church calls it tithe.

PS the tithe is basically for the carrying out of the mission of the institution... And that goes for clubs, Scout groups, whatever. Not for the lining of pockets of those in leadership. If you disagree with the mission, find another church. If you agree with the mission, but there's no support for it, take the mission elsewhere and do it yourself. God will provide through other means. If your cause is a good one. If God doesn't support it, then I guess it's cause is a bad one. Go back to where you started perhaps. BTW... Benjamin Franklin said that. Thought it worth repeating.

In other words ...no need for any leading by The Holy Spirit as man has it nicely under control.

 

[Enoch111]

i cant think of a single belief that you have evinced believing since you came here, pEnoch, could you name one for us? ty

I don't think you would recognize a biblical truth even if it was staring you in the face, since you have your own agenda.

 

[Brakelite]

In other words ...no need for any leading by The Holy Spirit as man has it nicely under control.

In Revelation 14 the work for the last days church is described.
KJV Revelation 14
The Harvest of the Earth
6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

Those are not literal angels although I do believe real literal angels would be overseeing the work. But reading those verses one can discern a global work. And when one perceives that in opposition there is also a global network which we see forming before our eyes...a network which is very well organised and operates under discipline and procedure with a specific goal in mind and an organised operation under the leadership of Satan.
Why should God's people be any less organised and with an equally and hopefully even more intimately inspired by the holy Spirit to accomplish a global work...a work that would be impossible with every man and his dog operating on their own. We were created to be in relationship with one another. To be interdependent. Everything else in nature cooperates and works in symbiotic relationship. Should not the body of Christ be even more so? How can ears, eyes, arms and fingers cooperate with one another if they have different goals and disunited avenues of reaching those goals?

 

[bbyrd009]

I don't think you would recognize a biblical truth even if it was staring you in the face, since you have your own agenda.

maybe not, you might be right, one way to find out huh? Its the "own agenda" thing we might get a better perspective of, if you wouldnt mind stating a "belief?"

 

[Hidden In Him]

Hello all:

I am at a crossroads on how I feel about Christian forums and if I want to participate any longer. I am starting to feel I don't belong on them. My views and values are just too different. I've already quit one forum. Maybe perminantly, maybe not. I will try to be brief, and maybe you can see my frustrations. Here is what I believe:

1. I believe in Jesus Christ. I believe in the person, but also the things he said and did, and I believe in following his teachings, commandments and his ordinances.
2. I believe the Bible is his word. Jesus was the Word made flesh, but I believe the Written Word. Without the Bible, we don't know what Jesus said, did or ordained. It befuddles me how anyone could both attack it and support it at the same time.

I also don't understand how people don't consider everything that was written but would rather drill just one verse without considering the whole scripture.

3. I believe that Christians should go to Church. Yea, I said it! By that, I mean the should gather their physical bodies in one physical place. I also believe there should be order of some sort... In other words, it ain't a pot luck dinner!

4. I believe Churches should have a government structure. Yes, I said that too! It is dangerous, as Paul warned, but it is ordained by God. By no means do I mean it should be the monstrosity it's become. But the Bible does give guidelines... And they don't mean social gatherings where people eat hors de vors and children play with toys provided for them.... Or listen to teaching... Whatever they want to do...

That's a pot lock dinner... And it's stupid and unbiblical to the point that Paul said don't do it. Jesus said not to share children away...

[Sidenote: This is the point where some will chime in and say, "Well the people are the Church, not the building!". Duh? Tell me something I don't know, and when did I ever say anything about a building? I said the people assemble for "Church"]

5. I believe Christians should be givers. Not to the poor and needy, but directly for the teaching! If you have been taught... Give! Support those who teach his Word. A true Man of God will turn around and see that his congregation can make ends meet. Paul did both. He lived on offerings and he distributed them. He called for support of the ministry and likewise support for those in need.

I see a decay in these truths. This time, I didn't give one verse to support what I have said. I've been giving them for nearly 20 years. At least 9 years on this board. But I am happy to say I can give scripture for everything I have said.

Yet, I don't feel there is like feeling amongst boards in general. I don't feel many see these things as important.

I know that many aren't following God's plan. Frankly, I am a bit sad about that, but not too sad... He said it would happen. But just because the masses aren't following the plan doesn't mean the plan is wrong! It's still the way God wanted it done!

So, there's my delemna. Does anyone actually agree with these points I believe are important? They aren't all the things that need to be addressed, but it's a good start.

If I didn't find many who agreed with my core beliefs (particularly that the supernatural gifts of the Holy Spirit are for today), I would be in the same place. I would be depressed and discouraged. All I can say is trust God. Believe He has a plan. Believe He has someone - maybe a group of someones - who can and will lift your spirits, and give you reason to believe again. That's what happened when I came here, and it is still here for me. I believe in the moderators and the community here. So I have to believe the same is there for you somewhere.

If you have to leave here for awhile, thank you for being my friend. You're a quality believer, and the Lord will take care of you.

- H

 

[Enoch111]

if you wouldnt mind stating a "belief?"

OK. I believe that Jesus is GOD. Do you?

 

[farouk]

In other words ...no need for any leading by The Holy Spirit as man has it nicely under control.

@Helen: In John's Gospel it's very evident that Father, Son and Holy Spirit are always working together and that the work of the Holy Spirit is truly indispensable.

 

[mjrhealth]

What kind of a comment is that? Are you suggesting that Christians are not in agreement with Christ? Or are you the lone exception?

Just becasue people call them self christian just because they read the bible doesnt mean they agree with Christ if all men agreed with Christ would we be having this discussion??
would there be any point to this forum??
what is it you do not see.

 

[Enoch111]

what is it you do not see.

I don't see YOU agreeing with Christ on many occasions.

 

[mjrhealth]

I saw, or didn't see, the same thing. But I thought, that's typical of mjr and

Funny isnt it I keep bringing up Christ and it upsets people,

Something about Him being a stumbling stone to many and a rock of offense.

 

[Enoch111]

Funny isnt it I keep bringing up Christ and it upsets people

What upsets people is that mjrhealth sits in judgment over other Christians when he himself disagrees with Christ when it suits.

 

[historyb]

Hello all:

I am at a crossroads on how I feel about Christian forums and if I want to participate any longer. I am starting to feel I don't belong on them. My views and values are just too different. I've already quit one forum. Maybe perminantly, maybe not. I will try to be brief, and maybe you can see my frustrations. Here is what I believe:

1. I believe in Jesus Christ. I believe in the person, but also the things he said and did, and I believe in following his teachings, commandments and his ordinances.
2. I believe the Bible is his word. Jesus was the Word made flesh, but I believe the Written Word. Without the Bible, we don't know what Jesus said, did or ordained. It befuddles me how anyone could both attack it and support it at the same time.

I also don't understand how people don't consider everything that was written but would rather drill just one verse without considering the whole scripture.

3. I believe that Christians should go to Church. Yea, I said it! By that, I mean the should gather their physical bodies in one physical place. I also believe there should be order of some sort... In other words, it ain't a pot luck dinner!

4. I believe Churches should have a government structure. Yes, I said that too! It is dangerous, as Paul warned, but it is ordained by God. By no means do I mean it should be the monstrosity it's become. But the Bible does give guidelines... And they don't mean social gatherings where people eat hors de vors and children play with toys provided for them.... Or listen to teaching... Whatever they want to do...

That's a pot lock dinner... And it's stupid and unbiblical to the point that Paul said don't do it. Jesus said not to share children away...

[Sidenote: This is the point where some will chime in and say, "Well the people are the Church, not the building!". Duh? Tell me something I don't know, and when did I ever say anything about a building? I said the people assemble for "Church"]

5. I believe Christians should be givers. Not to the poor and needy, but directly for the teaching! If you have been taught... Give! Support those who teach his Word. A true Man of God will turn around and see that his congregation can make ends meet. Paul did both. He lived on offerings and he distributed them. He called for support of the ministry and likewise support for those in need.

I see a decay in these truths. This time, I didn't give one verse to support what I have said. I've been giving them for nearly 20 years. At least 9 years on this board. But I am happy to say I can give scripture for everything I have said.

Yet, I don't feel there is like feeling amongst boards in general. I don't feel many see these things as important.

I know that many aren't following God's plan. Frankly, I am a bit sad about that, but not too sad... He said it would happen. But just because the masses aren't following the plan doesn't mean the plan is wrong! It's still the way God wanted it done!

So, there's my delemna. Does anyone actually agree with these points I believe are important? They aren't all the things that need to be addressed, but it's a good start.

I can understand the depression I have hardly no one here who shares my beliefs and accuse me of things which makes me in turn lash out at them. It is not easy being at a place where one does not feel religiously welcomed but in other ways are.

 

[quietthinker]

I can understand the depression I have hardly no one here who shares my beliefs and accuse me of things which makes me in turn lash out at them. It is not easy being at a place where one does not feel religiously welcomed but in other ways are.

Poor me, self justification and self righteousness is not doing you any favours!

 

[mjrhealth]

What upsets people is that mjrhealth sits in judgment over other Christians when he himself disagrees with Christ when it suits.

Why do you feel judged, is there no condemnation for those who are in Christ, if you are in Christ why would you feel that way.

 

[FollowHim]

Hello all:

I am at a crossroads on how I feel about Christian forums and if I want to participate any longer. I am starting to feel I don't belong on them. My views and values are just too different. I've already quit one forum. Maybe perminantly, maybe not. I will try to be brief, and maybe you can see my frustrations. Here is what I believe:

1. I believe in Jesus Christ. I believe in the person, but also the things he said and did, and I believe in following his teachings, commandments and his ordinances.
2. I believe the Bible is his word. Jesus was the Word made flesh, but I believe the Written Word. Without the Bible, we don't know what Jesus said, did or ordained. It befuddles me how anyone could both attack it and support it at the same time.

I also don't understand how people don't consider everything that was written but would rather drill just one verse without considering the whole scripture.

3. I believe that Christians should go to Church. Yea, I said it! By that, I mean the should gather their physical bodies in one physical place. I also believe there should be order of some sort... In other words, it ain't a pot luck dinner!

4. I believe Churches should have a government structure. Yes, I said that too! It is dangerous, as Paul warned, but it is ordained by God. By no means do I mean it should be the monstrosity it's become. But the Bible does give guidelines... And they don't mean social gatherings where people eat hors de vors and children play with toys provided for them.... Or listen to teaching... Whatever they want to do...

That's a pot lock dinner... And it's stupid and unbiblical to the point that Paul said don't do it. Jesus said not to share children away...

[Sidenote: This is the point where some will chime in and say, "Well the people are the Church, not the building!". Duh? Tell me something I don't know, and when did I ever say anything about a building? I said the people assemble for "Church"]

5. I believe Christians should be givers. Not to the poor and needy, but directly for the teaching! If you have been taught... Give! Support those who teach his Word. A true Man of God will turn around and see that his congregation can make ends meet. Paul did both. He lived on offerings and he distributed them. He called for support of the ministry and likewise support for those in need.

I see a decay in these truths. This time, I didn't give one verse to support what I have said. I've been giving them for nearly 20 years. At least 9 years on this board. But I am happy to say I can give scripture for everything I have said.

Yet, I don't feel there is like feeling amongst boards in general. I don't feel many see these things as important.

I know that many aren't following God's plan. Frankly, I am a bit sad about that, but not too sad... He said it would happen. But just because the masses aren't following the plan doesn't mean the plan is wrong! It's still the way God wanted it done!

So, there's my delemna. Does anyone actually agree with these points I believe are important? They aren't all the things that need to be addressed, but it's a good start.

The problem with forums is people are here do not do other stuff much because forums take up so much time to say very little.
On one forum a group of 7 repeat the same ideas year in year out. But then you find many have no home or church or other contacts so rely on forums for an identity. And to be honest this is a sad time, if life comes down to these posts on particular verses in the bible, often with very antagonistic people whose main goal is to antagonise and not agree. God bless you