FACTS ABOUT ABORTION

[marksman]

I am providing this information because some people here don't want to be reminded of how gross abortion is and how cruel and barbaric it is. After all the baby has done nothing to warrant being murdered in the womb. IF THAT IS YOU, GO NO FURTHER.

Abortion was not on my radar until I saw the ultrasound video known as The Silent Scream, a video recorded and filmed by an abortionist during an actual abortion. The baby being aborted was screaming as the forceps grabbed hold of him.

For people who say it is only a blob of cells, I say go and take a long walk off a short pier.

So here is fact number one. Aborted babies feel pain.

1. Pain receptors develop early.
In her testimony before Congress in May of 2012, Dr. Colleen Malloy, MD, a board-certified Neonatologist and Assistant Professor at Northwestern University Feinberg School of Medicine, described the following developmental milestones of an unborn child, indicating very early perception of pain:

• At 8 weeks gestation, facial sensory receptors appear.
• At 14 weeks gestation, sensory fibers grow into the spinal cord, and connections are made with the thalamus (part of the brain).
• Between 13 and 16 weeks gestation, monoamine fibers (nerve cells or fibers) reach the cerebral cortex (another part of the brain).
• Between 17 and 20 weeks gestation, thalamo-cortical relays (pathways to the brain for sensory information) penetrate the cortex.
• No later than 20 weeks gestation, pain receptors are present and linked.

 

[marksman]

FACT NUMBER TWO.

Partial-Birth Abortion (Brain Suction) - 4 to 9 months of pregnancy
Guided by ultrasound, the abortionist grabs the baby’s leg with forceps. The baby’s leg is pulled out into the birth canal. The abortionist delivers the baby’s entire body, except for the head. The abortionist jams scissors into the baby’s skull. The scissors are then opened to enlarge the hole. The scissors are removed and a suction catheter is inserted. The child’s brains are sucked out, causing the skull to collapse. The dead baby is then removed.

 

[Jim B]

I am providing this information because some people here don't want to be reminded of how gross abortion is and how cruel and barbaric it is. After all the baby has done nothing to warrant being murdered in the womb. IF THAT IS YOU, GO NO FURTHER.

Abortion was not on my radar until I saw the ultrasound video known as The Silent Scream, a video recorded and filmed by an abortionist during an actual abortion. The baby being aborted was screaming as the forceps grabbed hold of him.

For people who say it is only a blob of cells, I say go and take a long walk off a short pier.

So here is fact number one. Aborted babies feel pain.

1. Pain receptors develop early.
In her testimony before Congress in May of 2012, Dr. Colleen Malloy, MD, a board-certified Neonatologist and Assistant Professor at Northwestern University Feinberg School of Medicine, described the following developmental milestones of an unborn child, indicating very early perception of pain:

• At 8 weeks gestation, facial sensory receptors appear.
• At 14 weeks gestation, sensory fibers grow into the spinal cord, and connections are made with the thalamus (part of the brain).
• Between 13 and 16 weeks gestation, monoamine fibers (nerve cells or fibers) reach the cerebral cortex (another part of the brain).
• Between 17 and 20 weeks gestation, thalamo-cortical relays (pathways to the brain for sensory information) penetrate the cortex.
• No later than 20 weeks gestation, pain receptors are present and linked.

This is so misleading! You write about fetal development as if it was "one size fits all". Many, many pregnancies are terminated because their are fetal anomalies which gives the fetus no chance of survival and/or it puts the mother's life at risk.

Your argument makes as much sense as saying that CPR shouldn't be administered to someone having a heart attack because that's just nature's way.

Responsible medicine is practiced for a reason; you should learn what that is.

 

[Philip James]

Wherever the spirit of antichrist holds sway, human sacrifice abounds..

Can a civilization that murders its own children be allowed to continue?

Lord, have mercy!

 

[Stan B]

Wherever the spirit of antichrist holds sway, human sacrifice abounds.

Can a civilization that murders its own children be allowed to continue?

Philip, Indeed, a civilization that murders it's own children is evil, but we are not discussing murder here, we are talking about aborting a fetus which has never had life, because it has never born.

Murder, is the unlawful taking of life. You cannot murder something that has never been a "living being".

 

[theophilus]

Philip, Indeed, a civilization that murders it's own children is evil, but we are not discussing murder here, we are talking about aborting a fetus which has never had life, because it has never born.

Murder, is the unlawful taking of life. You cannot murder something that has never been a "living being".

A fetus is a living human being. Its life began when it was conceived. If you don't believe this, remember that John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit while still in his mother's womb.

 

[DPMartin]

well its been my experience that many, Christians especially, go on as though there is a universal set of morals that are assumed. if there were such a thing then animals that leave their young to die would be immoral, and those babies are already born.

also, there is the argument that when is a human a living soul? seeing that God breathed into the nostrils of the man and then he became a living soul. Gen 2:7

now in Christian circles one can argue that it is agreed to not do abortions, or nations that agree to this or that.

but if one isn't in a agreement such as a nation or culture, then is there a immoral act?

 

[theophilus]

well its been my experience that many, Christians especially, go on as though there is a universal set of morals that are assumed. if there were such a thing then animals that leave their young to die would be immoral, and those babies are already born.

There is a universal set of morals that we are to adhere to. These morals don't apply to animals.

also, there is the argument that when is a human a living soul? seeing that God breathed into the nostrils of the man and then he became a living soul. Gen 2:7

Adam became a living soul when God breathed life into him. He passed this life on to all of his descendants.

now in Christian circles one can argue that it is agreed to not do abortions, or nations that agree to this or that.

but if one isn't in a agreement such as a nation or culture, then is there a immoral act?

Morality is determined by God's commands, not by any nation or culture.

 

[Stan B]

A fetus is a living human being. Its life began when it was conceived. If you don't believe this, remember that John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit while still in his mother's womb.

Thank you for your opinion as to when life begins, but then there is God's opinion. Bible is very clear that life does not begin until a fetus is born, and God breathes into him the Breath/Spirit of Life.

God is very specific as to when a fetus becomes a living being: “The LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being” (Genesis 2:7). Adam did not become a living being until then. God breathed into the nostrils of man his spirit, which who a person really is. The body dies and returns to dust, while the spirit lives on forever.

Until God has breathed into the fetus the breath/spirit of life, God says it is dead!

"For as the body apart from the spirit is dead" James 2:26 )

 

[Stan B]

This is so misleading! You write about fetal development as if it was "one size fits all". Many, many pregnancies are terminated because their are fetal anomalies which gives the fetus no chance of survival and/or it puts the mother's life at risk.

Your argument makes as much sense as saying that CPR shouldn't be administered to someone having a heart attack because that's just nature's way.

Responsible medicine is practiced for a reason; you should learn what that is.

Jim, your theology is entirely consistent with Scripture, which says:

"If a man begets a hundred sons and lives many years so that the days of his years are many, if his soul is not filled with good and also that he have no burial; I say that an stillborn birth is better than he." Ecclesiastes 6:3

 

[Timtofly]

Thank you for your opinion as to when life begins, but then there is God's opinion. Bible is very clear that life does not begin until a fetus is born, and God breathes into him the Breath/Spirit of Life.

God is very specific as to when a fetus becomes a living being: “The LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being” (Genesis 2:7). Adam did not become a living being until then. God breathed into the nostrils of man his spirit, which who a person really is. The body dies and returns to dust, while the spirit lives on forever.

Until God has breathed into the fetus the breath/spirit of life, God says it is dead!

"For as the body apart from the spirit is dead" James 2:26 )

So there is no oxygen at all in the development? God breathes life in at conception. Sorry to burst your little oxygen bubble. My first born would have died without lungs, yet breath happens before lungs. So saying that a fetus cannot breath inside the womb without lungs is not even science. So it would be OK to kill a human outside of the mom who had no lungs, and a machine did it for him, but if inside with lungs they are not breathing? Being outside in fresh air is no different in a room without any ventilation. Yep, you would commit suicide. So yes, killing a human in the womb is no different that doing it in fresh air. They are still getting air in the womb, from the mom, and no, a mom should not kill the human forming inside of her, even though they share the same oxygen and food supply.

God is sovereign and knows that we do not have to abort by free will. It will not destroy the world if babies are born.

 

[Timtofly]

Jim, your theology is entirely consistent with Scripture, which says:

"If a man begets a hundred sons and lives many years so that the days of his years are many, if his soul is not filled with good and also that he have no burial; I say that an aborted birth is better than he." Ecclesiastes 6:3

So we are now Gods and can determine before a person is born they need to be aborted? It is just fine for a natural abortion to occur, because God is merciful. You really think wisdom can predict the future?

 

[Stan B]

So we are now Gods and can determine before a person is born they need to be aborted? It is just fine for a natural abortion to occur, because God is merciful. You really think wisdom can predict the future?

I am only going by what the Bible says. God creates abortions on a routine basis: spontaneous abortions, also called miscarriages.

God has warned us that after being set free, the church will be invaded by those who desire to destroy that freedom by adding their own laws to ensure we are kept in bondage.

The anti-God anti-abortionists are one such group, promoting a self-made cult are an evil entity, determined to enforce their lunacy upon the whole world. That is Allah’s agenda: obey us or we will cut off your head! Unlike them God has provided no law in all of Scripture forbidding abortion!!

 

[Stan B]

A fetus is a living human being. Its life began when it was conceived. If you don't believe this, remember that John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit while still in his mother's womb.

John the Baptist was a unique and special creation of God. How soon before his birth was he filled with the Holy Spirit? Five seconds? Ten Seconds?

He is the very entity to be filled with the Holy Spirit. Prior to that, God’s Spirit merely rested “upon” people.

 

[Rita]

Thank you for your opinion as to when life begins, but then there is God's opinion. Bible is very clear that life does not begin until a fetus is born, and God breathes into him the Breath/Spirit of Life.

God is very specific as to when a fetus becomes a living being: “The LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being” (Genesis 2:7). Adam did not become a living being until then. God breathed into the nostrils of man his spirit, which who a person really is. The body dies and returns to dust, while the spirit lives on forever.

Until God has breathed into the fetus the breath/spirit of life, God says it is dead!

"For as the body apart from the spirit is dead" James 2:26 )

Although I agree that life can be determined at different times I am not sure you can use Adam as an example, he was never in the womb, never procreated in the same way as the rest of us. The feutus is ‘ living ‘ - it is alive in the womb. As soon as an egg is fertilised is is the ‘ potential for life ‘ when it starts developing, it is becoming a life. At six weeks the heart is beating, we determine death as when the heart stops, so surely life is determined by when the heart starts beating. Personally I would have never got an abortion, despite being offered on with my first and last pregnancy. ( I wasn’t a Christian with my first, was with my last ) However I am not totally against the morning after pill ,on principle ( but don’t think people should be sleeping around and having casual sex anyway - that is where the whole issue of abortion needs to be addressed - the root cause. So many unwanted pregnancies because of just wanting sex and not the end result )
Rita

 

[Stan B]

Although I agree that life can be determined at different times I am not sure you can use Adam as an example, he was never in the womb, never procreated in the same way as the rest of us.

Adam was made of dirt, but we are all made of dirt.

Job confirms the Genesis account:
“Behold, I belong to God like you;
I too have been formed out of the clay."
“The Spirit of God has made me,
And the breath of the Almighty gives me life." Job 33

"Till I die I will not put away my integrity from me.
For as long as life is in me,
And the breath of God is in my nostrils" Job 27

Jewish Law based upon Scripture, declares a fetus does not become a living being unitil God breathes it's nostrils, the breath of life, and having nostrils and the ability to breath, would seem to be a prerequisite for that to happen.

Solomon describes what happens at death "Man's body returns to the dust from whence it came; And the spirit returns to God who gave it." Ecclesiastes 12:7

Paul says the body is really unimportant. Flesh and blood do not inherit the Kingdom of God, it is just a housing unit to temporarily carry our spirit while we are here on earth. "For we know that if the earthly tent which is our house is torn down, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For indeed in this house we groan, longing to be clothed with our dwelling from heaven" 2 Corinthians 5:1-2

"For as the body apart from the spirit is dead" James 2:26 )

This theme is found throughout Scripture, right up to the end of Revelation, when after the two witnesses in Revelation having been slain, "after the three and a half days, the breath of life from God came into them, and they stood on their feet;" Rev 11:11

Rita, I hope this helps to explain that what happened with Adam, was not just an isolated anomaly that happened only to him.

I have no particular agenda regarding abortion. My only agenda is to support the truth proclaimed of Scripture.

 

[marksman]

I am not at all surprised by your declaration that you do not want to talk to anyone who disagrees with you. And elsewhere, you have rejected everything Scripture has to say about it.

So basically you belong to a Bible-rejecting anti-abortion cult, that wants nothing to do with what the Bible says, because the beliefs of this cult conflicts with Scripture on every issue. Sad.

I never said that, you did.

 

[marksman]

I am not at all surprised by your declaration that you do not want to talk to anyone who disagrees with you. And elsewhere, you have rejected everything Scripture has to say about it.

So basically you belong to a Bible-rejecting anti-abortion cult, that wants nothing to do with what the Bible says, because the beliefs of this cult conflicts with Scripture on every issue. Sad.

Thank you for your opinion.

 

[marksman]

This is so misleading! You write about fetal development as if it was "one size fits all". Many, many pregnancies are terminated because their are fetal anomalies which gives the fetus no chance of survival and/or it puts the mother's life at risk.

Your argument makes as much sense as saying that CPR shouldn't be administered to someone having a heart attack because that's just nature's way.

Responsible medicine is practiced for a reason; you should learn what that is.

Thankyou for your opinion.

 

[marksman]

Philip, Indeed, a civilization that murders it's own children is evil, but we are not discussing murder here, we are talking about aborting a fetus which has never had life, because it has never born.

Murder, is the unlawful taking of life. You cannot murder something that has never been a "living being".

Thankyou for your opinion. Instead of attacking anyone who does not agree with you why don't you start your own thread setting out your ideas on abortion? Then we can get on with a sensible discussion on MY thread.