2 Chr. 34:19
Well-Known Member
AgreedWe do not have to sin. We are not debtors to the flesh to live according to it (Romans 8:12-13).
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AgreedWe do not have to sin. We are not debtors to the flesh to live according to it (Romans 8:12-13).
Not perfection, as in omniscient-Like The Lord...who would dare say this? He is above all-Almighty.We've had many threads on this topic about, during our earthly existence, what level of edification, sanctification and perfection is attainable.
I believe that as with any type of discipline, growth and maturity comes with experience and understanding. Whether one is training as an athlete, musician, lawyer or scholar, exposure to the craft, understanding the tenets and skill-sets required, and study and practice, trains the body and enlightens the mind. So, as we all know, the more that we read our Bibles, discuss and gather other opinions, pray and meditate on His Word, progression and edification is inevitable.
I guess the only question remains, is to what extent can we elevate our spirits and attain the full image of God?
I say, not perfection by any stretch of the mind, but I think as much effort as one puts in, will be the results, and God is willing to expedite this if one has the right amount of faith and humility.
In my opinion, thanks!
Sorry that came across really aggressive. I wasn’t disagreeing with you, it was a post for someone else (forgot who lol)Not perfection, as in omniscient-Like The Lord...who would dare say this? He is above all-Almighty.
Free from committing sin-delivered from addiction - DELIVERED
Yes, of course not attributes of deity, but we can perfect those specific and selective constituents that He bestowed upon us, namely His image. Thus holiness is attainable 'be holy, as I am holy'. So, theoretically, perfection in righteousness is within our reach, for this was the requirement of Christ in order to be our atonement. Through petition and prayers God edified him, and when made perfect through both righteousness and obedience unto death, God was able to first, accept his sacrifice, then raise him from the dead and end the Law.Not perfection, as in omniscient-Like The Lord...who would dare say this? He is above all-Almighty.
Free from committing sin-delivered from addiction - DELIVERED
Do you think that Jesus failed to completely finish God's plan of salvation for mankind when He died on the cross? If you are basing your adequacy or success on your good work or your progress in personal holiness, then you have missed the point of the gospel entirely, and are saying that Jesus is failing in His worksmanship in you.Then to what purpose does an inadequate and failed progress in this life accomplish?
Yes, there is a righteousness that is obtainable (not attainable) in this life. It is the perfect righteousness of Christ that is bestowed on us at conversion. the Scripture says that Jesus, who knew no sin, became sin for us, so that we become the righteousness of God in Christ. We have this righteousness as a free gift, the Scripture saying, We are saved by grace through faith, not of ourselves; it is the gift of God; not of works lest any should boast. Therefore, as soon as we accepted Christ, we were made totally righteous with the righteousness of God, which was given to us as a free gift.As I said, it is something that is entirely invisible.
Because even if someone outwardly exhibits behaviour that would denote entire sanctification in his life; there is still the secret life that no one knows about except them and the Lord.
So then, we can only determine whether someone is righteous outwardly; and there are those who do have such a righteousness.
But of course in looking at the lives of such, the person who desires to deny the doctrine can say that there must be some secret sin in their life, and that their outward righteousness only makes them hypocrites; for if they were real people they would wear their heart on their sleeve and everything would be laid bare before the public.
What is not considered is that Jesus told us to clean the inside of the cup and platter so that the outside might be also clean.
So then, there are those who are outwardly righteous before men and do not have the righteousness of faith (an inward righteousness); and there are those who do have that inward righteousness.
But those who do have it do not go around saying, "I have it." Their attitude is that they have room to grow; for that is the attitude of those who are perfect (Philippians 3:12-15).
I believe it bears mentioning that Jesus said that unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will in no wise enter in to the kingdom of heaven (Matthew 5:20). Since this is the case, either such a righteousness is possible or else no one is going to enter into the kingdom of heaven.
I think that this is an airtight case for the concept that such a righteousness can be obtained in this life.
The righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees was impeccable according to the law. The only righteousness that might exceed it might be a righteousness that is on the inside and that is in fact also impeccable according to what is on the inside.
In Romans 5:5 we find that the Lord is able to shed abroad His love in our hearts through the Holy Ghost. This love is the fulfilling of the righteousness of the law within us (Romans 8:4, Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6). And it is practical in its nature (1 John 3:17-18).
These things can indeed be seen of men; but those who carry these things in this day may indeed be far and few between.
If even no one today carried this righteousness that I speak of, it would not mean that it is impossible to obtain it and neither would it lessen the fact that this is the righteousness that is required of us by the Lord (see Matthew 7:13-14).
Yep. I was set free from my sinful life when the Holy Spirit through a faithful evangelist revealed the gospel to me, and I was enabled to receive Christ as my Saviour. I never wanted to become religious and my sinful heart rebelled against the idea of it. But the Holy Spirit delivered me from that sinful heart, and gave me a new heart and spirit to receive and love Jesus as my Saviour and Lord. I actually remember the exact date when the Holy Spirit revealed the reality of Jesus to me and changed me internally. It was April 20 1969 at 11pm. From then on I didn't need to be delivered from anything else, because I became totally free in Christ, and the Scripture says, If Christ makes me free, then I am free indeed!"Have you ever been delivered of something, which was impossible to overcome?
Indeed, the holy scriptures teach that the righteousness that God gives us is practical in nature (1 John 3:7, Romans 5:19, Matthew 5:6, 1 John 3:17-18)Yes, there is a righteousness that is obtainable (not attainable) in this life. It is the perfect righteousness of Christ that is bestowed on us at conversion. the Scripture says that Jesus, who knew no sin, became sin for us, so that we become the righteousness of God in Christ. We have this righteousness as a free gift, the Scripture saying, We are saved by grace through faith, not of ourselves; it is the gift of God; not of works lest any should boast. Therefore, as soon as we accepted Christ, we were made totally righteous with the righteousness of God, which was given to us as a free gift.
Of course this doesn't mean that we continue in sin because we are made righteous. Paul was very sure about that when he said, "God forbid! How can we continue to live in sin when we are dead to it?" This means that as soon as we accepted Christ as Saviour, and received God's righteousness, we died to sin and became alive in Christ. This clarifies the Scripture, "We have the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God who raises the dead", and, "We are crucified (executed) with Christ, nevertheless we live, yet not us, but Christ lives in us, and the life we live we live by faith in the Son of God".
So, it is on the basis of our faith in Christ, and the gratitude of receiving the gift of righteousness from God, that we strongly desire to forsake our sinful habit patterns and live lives that glorify Christ in this world. We depend on the strength of the indwelling Holy Spirit to accomplish the life of holiness that our hearts want to accomplish and to keep our flesh in subjection to our heart's desire.
Correct. If a person does not show the fruits of righteousness, one has to wonder if he is genuinely converted to Christ, or has merely a form of religion and nothing more. James makes this point fairly clearly.Indeed, the holy scriptures teach that the righteousness that God gives us is practical in nature (1 John 3:7, Romans 5:19, Matthew 5:6, 1 John 3:17-18)
Do you think that Jesus failed to completely finish God's plan of salvation for mankind when He died on the cross? If you are basing your adequacy or success on your good work or your progress in personal holiness, then you have missed the point of the gospel entirely, and are saying that Jesus is failing in His worksmanship in you.
You obviously have not read your Bible.There is no Entire Sanctification in the future in the Bible.
You obviously have not read your Bible.
"Faithful is he that calleth you; who also will do it." (1 Thessalonians 5:24).
You simply do not know your Bible.Obviously you know nothing of sanctification being in the future tense in Scripture, because there is no future tense use of sanctification in the Bible!
Go ahead, believe the fiction that it does, and you can find it right next that verse you think is in the Bible that "Jesus paid for your sins!"
Jesus is the propitiation for my sins; that means that His dying on the Cross was the appeasement of God's wrath against my sins.Go ahead, believe the fiction that it does, and you can find it right next that verse you think is in the Bible that "Jesus paid for your sins!"
O right sorry, I meant anything ‘fleshly’, not what’s inside of you. My heart was changed too, by way of empathy for other people less fortunate. I meant Things we battle with or struggle to do ‘in our own strength’-ie addictions etc.Yep. I was set free from my sinful life when the Holy Spirit through a faithful evangelist revealed the gospel to me, and I was enabled to receive Christ as my Saviour. I never wanted to become religious and my sinful heart rebelled against the idea of it. But the Holy Spirit delivered me from that sinful heart, and gave me a new heart and spirit to receive and love Jesus as my Saviour and Lord. I actually remember the exact date when the Holy Spirit revealed the reality of Jesus to me and changed me internally. It was April 20 1969 at 11pm. From then on I didn't need to be delivered from anything else, because I became totally free in Christ, and the Scripture says, If Christ makes me free, then I am free indeed!"
Jesus is the propitiation for my sins; that means that His dying on the Cross was the appeasement of God's wrath against my sins.
This, to me, means that He paid for them.
If you don't want to avail yourself of this free gift that He offers, well, that is on you.
As for me, I have received it and it has changed my life.
Who says that what I believe isn't sanctioned by the Bible?Thanks for proving that you do not need Biblical sanction for your "life philosophy."
Who says that what I believe isn't sanctioned by the Bible?
God and His words in the Bible.