101G
Well-Known Member
Now, is there any trinitarians out there who can reconcile 1 Timothy 6:16 and Isaiah 57:15 differently? love to hear your answer.
PICJAG.
PICJAG.
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Of course Jesus is an immortal human being (I also am not diminishing the fact that He is God).
The Father is a Spirit that inhabiteth eternity; He does not dwell in flesh (except "after" He descends to become the Son of man).
Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
Woah, now I know that you're not a typical "Christian!" What denomination do you belong to? I haven't heard that view of the Trinity before! Clearly, it is the heresy of Modalism. I beg you to reconsider, or at least consider other views with an open mind!
It is not modalism; for I consider that there is a distinction between Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.
Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
There may be varieties of Modalism, but what you espouse is indeed Modalism. To say that all of the Persons of the Trinity are one Person is Modalism, unless you are just referring to all Persons of the Trinity being the one person of God. This is how I used to say it, and it created some confusion with others, who knew better than I did the Trinitarian formula.
One Person of the Trinity is not another Person of the Trinity. That is Modalism!
Do you think that a 2nd God descended to become a Man; or that 1/3 of God did so?
Read the book of isaiah with any such concept in mind; and see if you do not find verses in the book refuting such a concept.
Or, do you believe that God descended to become a Man?
I believe in the Trinity; but I emphasize the Oneness of the Lord in order to combat the heretical view of Tritheism.
Cooper
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You say (highlighted in red,) "One Person of the Trinity is not another Person of the Trinity. That is Modalism!
You have it the wrong way round Randy. What you call Modalism is Trinitarianism. See the diagram. The Father is NOT the Son, the Son is NOT the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is NOT the Father. They co-exist eternally. As the hymn says, "God in three persons."
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Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
No, I didn't have it wrong. The guy I was speaking to had it wrong, and was, in fact, Modalism. I agree with the diagram. One Person is not the other Person. All of the Persons are God. So I don't know why you think I have it wrong? Could you be speaking to someone else, or misunderstanding me?You have it the wrong way round Randy. What you call Modalism, is actually Trinitarism.
Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
Who believes in Tritheism? Sometimes Christians fail to understand the Trinity well, but few Christians, if any, believe there are 3 gods! Yes, the one God is in all three Persons of the Trinity. As I said, they have each their own distinctions, and unless these distinctions are clearly maintained we will fail to understand who they are, and how they relate. It is important for us because we relate to the Father *in heaven,* and we relate to what Christ experienced on the earth *as a man,* and we relate to the Holy Spirit because He is in us, giving us a New Nature, and helping us to overcome the carnal man.
Cooper
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Randy. You said in #45 and I quoted you, "One Person of the Trinity is not another Person of the Trinity. That is Modalism!"
It is not modalism Randy. It is Trinitarism. According to Trinitarism one person of the Trinity is NOT another parson of the Trinity. You have it the wrong way round.
The Father is NOT the Son and the Son is NOT the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit is NOT the Father, but they are One God. That is Trinitarism, and not Modalism.
Did you not see it in the diagram. Please stop and think before making yourself look silly.
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BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
Jehovah is The Only True God, he is the Father and God of Jesus Christ.
I believe that Jehovah God has made his Only Begotten Son Jesus a god.
We pray to no one but Jehovah God. It is true we use Jesus' name when
praying to Jehovah God, for example, "Jehovah God we come to you in
prayer in the name of your Only Begotten Son Jesus Christ."
I agree that Jehovah God is working through his Only Begotten Son Jesus.
However, if you're saying that Jehovah God is working or reigning through
Jesus fleshly body, I disagree.
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
Hi Barney,
This is a 2 minute video that has the Gospel woven right into the genealogies from Adam to Noah....very very interesting. It's only 2 minutes long if you want to take the time
No thank you, concerning the video. What I said was true. Nowhere in the scriptures did Gods Holy Spirit influence
any man to describe Jesus as God-man or Man-God. I find that very significant myself
Nancy
Well-Known Member
So, you won't take 2 minutes of your life to see what those genealogies really tell us? Wow, okay. You're stuck in cement and remain unteachable. Not to mention, what is shown on the video is something man could NEVER do...all through the genealogies. I found it fascinating.
101G
Well-Known Member
GINOLJC to all.
first thanks for the reply, second, justbyfaith, justbyfaith, justbyfaith, are you listing to yourself? the term "Father" is a title, do you get it yet? the term "Father" is NOT, is NOT a person, but a title. My God. Jesus is that Spirit, the Holy Spirit who diversified himself in flesh. are you now seeing the picture? the terms "Father" and "Son" are TITLES of the ONE person Jesus who is the Holy Spirit.
THINK for a second. place the Holy Spirit as center, and ONLY in the Godhead, he holds the titles "Father" without flesh, and "Son" with flesh... "diversified". there is no such thing as Father and Son as persons. do you understand that. there is no all 3, there is no all at all. he Jesus is God all in all.
PICJAG.
101G
Well-Known Member
Zechariah 13:7 "Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones."
Here Jesus is describe by God himself the Holy Spirit as a "MAN", but also as HIS, HIS, HIS, fellow..... meaning God.
PICJAG.
101G
Well-Known Member
well Barney, your own bible don't agree with you on that. your new world translations calls Jesus GOD.
in Revelation 1:1 as I have said a many of times, one sent his angel to John. and the angel tells John in Revelation 22:6 as who it was that sent him, listen. Revelation 22:6 "And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.". in your NWT it have Jehovah in place of, "the Lord God of the holy prophets ". but clearly Revelation 22:16 states clearly who sent his angel, "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."
that a gross embarrassment to the new world translation whom the JW believe by. your NWT calls Jesus Jehovah. and then you're going to say Jehovah, "made his Only Begotten Son Jesus a god". see your false evidence. whoever was writing your bible must have been asleep at the wheel, to place Jehovah as God in verse 6, and in the same chapter only a few verses states "JESUS" sent his angel, that a gross embarrassment to the whole JW religion. so a JW has no room to criticize any one's religion, when theirs are fake as a three left shoe.
what the JW needs to do is Repent, and as for Jesus being made a god, that's disgusting when clearly God himself, JESUS, the Holy Spirit said this, Deuteronomy 32:39 "See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."
and even your own, again NWT, states no gods "apart" from God. so your religion and bible are false material, and have no TRUTH in them.
PICJAG.
Then you disagree with Col 2:9.
It says clearly that every bit of what God consists of is inside the body of Jesus Christ.
This is why a person cannot go around the omnipresent Jesus, and somehow bypass him and get to the Father.
Every word you speak to God, you must speak to Jesus now.
He is the mediator, so he will petition God for you in your every prayer.
Never bypass the mediator for anything, because his God will not honor bypassing him....
First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
So what you will not acknowledge that God's Holy Spirit which gives us all the truth we
need about Jesus Christ never describes him as God-man or a man-God or God incarnate.
These are phrases that man wants to add to scripture. I don't think God's
Holy Spirit needs any human to help in describing exactly who Jesus Christ is.
God's word reveals that Jesus is God’s Son and not as God. Jesus himself said: “I am God’s Son.”
To Mary, the angel Gabriel said: “What is born will be called holy, God’s Son.” Nothing is said of a
God-man or a man-God. Nowhere in the Bible is Jesus called a “God-man” or “God incarnate.”
101G
Well-Known Member
Jesus preexisted as a human in the mind of God, which is reality since there is no time in God. (Psalm 2, Psalm 22, Rev 13:8)
Jesus was born before Adam and any living thing.(Col 1).
Jesus resurrected before Lazarus etc.(Col 1).
God made all things by, through and for Jesus(Col 1).
Jesus was made human. (Hebrews 2, Phil 2, etc.)
Jesus was made per conception, beginning microscopic(Matt 1),
Jesus was full and led of the Holy Ghost (Luke 4:1).
The Holy Ghost left Jesus on the cross.(Matt 27).
He was resurrected by his God(John 20 etc).
He was made a quickening spirit after resurrecting(1 Cor 15).
All of his God fully indwells his quickening spirit body, meaning God is "housed" in the bodily omnipresent temple of His quickening spirit son.(Col 2:9).
Jesus still has a God today.(Rev 3:12).
Jesus, is God by default because his God is working and lighting the universe THROUGH him, bodily......
22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
Simply put, God is the electricity that powers His son(lamb) to light the world.
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