Christians and the Law of Moses

[Yan]

I believe that the Bible teaches that it is not a good idea to have the names of any other god but the name of the one true God (YHWH) on our lips. And that includes the seven Jinn kings that you have mentioned.

Forgive me, my bad. I just want to show the reality of our world with the bible of OC and the purpose of Christ delivers mankind from the devil snares and the works of the law are under devil snares that put our flesh into sins.

 

[justbyfaith]

Forgive me, my bad. I just want to show the reality of our world with the bible of OC and the purpose of Christ delivers mankind from the devil snares and the works of the law are under devil snares that put our flesh into sins.

Ask the Lord to forgive you; you didn't sin against me.

 

[mjrhealth]

Christians are not lawless, but do all things lawfully. And if they are lawless, then they are no better than the anarchists who are presently out in full force. Paul has a word of warning for all Christians:

What dont you have Love... we in Christ have no laws, laws where made for bad people, are you a bad people.

 

[mjrhealth]

Your law seeks to get rid of God's Law because it condemns you as a transgressor and you use your gospel and misapplication of the scriptures to plaster over transgressions pointed out by God's Law, even pretend they don't exist.

No one got rid of Gods law, it never changed, the Jews became dead to it so they could become alive in Christ, we where never given it, we where given the "better" way but some dont think the way we have is the better one so keep running back to the old way. Because teh old way is all about "self".

 

[quietthinker]

No one got rid of Gods law, it never changed, the Jews became dead to it so they could become alive in Christ, we where never given it, we where given the "better" way but some dont think the way we have is the better one so keep running back to the old way. Because teh old way is all about "self".

Do you think God changed his mind in regards to how people throughout the ages are justified?

 

[mjrhealth]

Do you think God changed his mind in regards to how people throughout the ages are justified?

Nope by grace... never changed.

Rom_3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

No one but Christ will ever stand before God have kept the whole law, God doesnt like boasters of self. Look at me God look what I did.

 

[quietthinker]

Nope by grace... never changed.

Rom_3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

No one but Christ will ever stand before God have kept the whole law, God doesnt like boasters of self. Look at me God look what I did.

So as you're saying, the folk in the Old Testament where equally justified by faith. So why make a big song and dance against and about being justified by the Law because one is inspired to honour it by keeping it? or are you telling me you cannot help lying and stealing and coveting and committing adultery and breaking the Sabbath etc etc?. You, who are so spirit filled are opposed to all these so you are saying?

My understanding is that 'you will know them by their fruits'. Well you tell me what fruits there are that are not covered in the Ten Commandments, the ones you are so keen to run down and dismiss as no longer applicable???

 

[BloodBought 1953]

When you assert the above and simultaneously say the Law of God (the 10C's) is done away with you talk in circles and contradict yourself. You do not understand what you are saying.

Better off is the man with few words with understanding than a man with many words and little understanding.

Please help me to “ understand” what I am saying......show me how I “Talk in circles” and “contradict” myself.....thanking you in advance, BB

 

[mjrhealth]

or are you telling me you cannot help lying and stealing and coveting and committing adultery and breaking the Sabbath etc etc?

If that is what you do in your free time, than I guess you probably do need laws, but than not everyone is like you.

1Ti_1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

IS that why you need teh law??

 

[quietthinker]

Please help me to “ understand” what I am saying......show me how I “Talk in circles” and “contradict” myself.....thanking you in advance, BB

Please forgive me. My harsh answer in post #56 was not warranted. I had assumed your answer to which I responded took the position of dismissing God's Law, the Law of Liberty as it is called and replaced it with the popular catch cry 'you only need to love'

 

[Yan]

If that is what you do in your free time, than I guess you probably do need laws, but than not everyone is like you.

1Ti_1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

IS that why you need teh law??

Even Moses had killed Egyptian, David laid with Batsyeba, Solomon worship Ba'al & Ashtoreth in his older age. Does current american represent solomon ?
Nobody is righteous so that will bring Christ down into earth to save mankind which had lost so far.

 

[quietthinker]

If that is what you do in your free time, than I guess you probably do need laws, but than not everyone is like you.

1Ti_1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

IS that why you need teh law??

The Law is a boundary for all people and shifting focus by apportioning blame through accusation as in your statement here is a convenient side step. You are not exonerated in your reply.

 

[mjrhealth]

The Law is a boundary for all people and shifting focus by apportioning blame through accusation as in your statement here is a convenient side step. You are not exonerated in your reply.

There is a boundary, it is called love, is it Gods problem that few can walk in it..

Luk 6:30 Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.
Luk 6:31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
Luk 6:32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.
Luk 6:33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Nope by grace... never changed.

Rom_3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

No one but Christ will ever stand before God have kept the whole law, God doesnt like boasters of self. Look at me God look what I did.

Please forgive me. My harsh answer in post #56 was not warranted. I had assumed your answer to which I responded took the position of dismissing God's Law, the Law of Liberty as it is called and replaced it with the popular catch cry 'you only need to love'

No problem.....lol....I hope you did not apologies “ too soon”....just to be clear- Here are my thoughts in regard to the Law....If I am mistaken , show me how—-Biblically . Opinions mean nothing. Especially mine.....
Paul said the Law was “ weak and useless” Why did he say that? Because it had “ NO POWER” to Save! Paul knew where that “ Power” was.....It was in the Gospel Of 1Cor15:1-4. He said that Faith in the Gospel had Indwelling in it “ GOD’S POWER” to Save.....So as far as Salvation is concerned why fool with something that can only “CONDEMN” the Unregenerate Sinner? Something that does not quench the Sin Nature, But In fact , spurs a person to Sin More! Paul wrote that the Law was given so that “ Sin might Increase!”..... On the surface, that might sound crazy, but God could handle an increase in Sin—— He wanted people to get sick of it so that they might “ Turn to Him” in Faith— That thing that God is actually desiring ( “ without Faith it is Impossible to please God” )
A Wise man is Obedient to ANY of God’s Laws....He gave them to us for “ OUR” benefit —- not soHe could be the Cosmic Killjoy to take all of the Fun out of life, as many see Him.....If one obeys the Laws, God will be pleased and bless you for it —- He just will not “SAVE” you for it.If one chooses to go down the Obedience Road to obtain their Justification before a Holy God, they need to understand that the Standard for that means of Justification is PERFECTION.....24/7.....that is the “ Curse Of The Law”
Attempts to keep a System Of Laws That Even Paul proclaimed was something that neither “he nor his fathers could keep” Can Perhaps make a person “ Moral”......Unfortunately , God is not looking for Moral People Who mistakenly believe that they are “ fit for Heaven”. God is looking for DEAD PEOPLE, “ dead in trespasses and sin”. Not to have them “ turn over a New Leaf”, But to SEE that they are Lost Sinners that MUST have a Savior.God wants to take Dead People and make them ALIVE! “ Born Again”, as Jesus put it .
Paul said the Law was only Beneficial if it was “ used properly”. Proper use of the Law is to understand that God gave the Law to show that you can’t keep it. It was given to “ shut you up” in regards to any delusion that you “ CAN” keep it. It’s True purpose is to lead you to the One that DID keep it! We must Trust in the Shed Blood Of Jesus Plus Nothing for the purpose of Salvation.Once Saved, by Trusting Jesus Alone, God gives us the Gift Of His Holy Spirit, which will not change us , but TRANSFORM us.Something done from the inside out.....We can change our behaviors on the outside to please the Church Crowd .... to let them know that everything “Took”. But only God can Transform us internally and make us “ New Creations.” It’s that “ Inside of the Cup” thing that Jesus talked about.
Letting the Law “ take you by the Hand and lead you to Jesus” is what the Law is all about . “NOBODY comes to God unless the Spirit draw him”......This is how the Spirit “ draws men” .....the Conviction Of Sin....The Purpose Of The Law was to be that Sin Convictor.....” Turn to God” as the Lost Sinner That you are, put your Faith in Jesus ALONE to Save you and get the Holy Spirit That given time, will take care of any “ Obedience” That God wants to attend to . He will get to the Root Of all of your problems and as He Promised.....He will “ Finish the Job” That He Alone started and “ Save you to the Uttermost”.......You do Your part, which is to REST in the Gospel Of Grace and let God do His Part...make you fit for Heaven .....He will do this If you quit “ trying” to be Saved by Keeping Laws and start “ Trusting” to be Saved by Trusting in His Wonderful Promise, which is what true Faith is....You summon up the Faith—The Obedience Will Follow......Don’t put the Cart before the Horse....God Bless...

 

[mjrhealth]

Letting the Law “ take you by the Hand and lead you to Jesus” is what the Law is all about . “NOBODY comes to God unless the Spirit draw him”......This is how the Spirit “ draws men” .....the Conviction Of Sin....The Purpose Of The Law was to be that Sin Convictor..

The conviction of sin, no, Jesus draws all men to Himself because He loves them and would love them to believe in Him so He can redeem them. As for conviction has nothing to do with the law,

Joh 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
Joh 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Joh 16:9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
Joh 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
Joh 16:11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

Us gentiles where and are still not, under the law, it was never given to us, we got the "better" way to make the Jews Jealous,, If we where under the law as they where, what could the possibly be jealous about.

Act 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
Act 15:6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
Act 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
Act 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
Act 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

But as you see, many still insist on putting that Yoke around the necks of men, even to the extent they carry that yoke as a medal of honor of which they never earned or ever will. For nonre keep teh law no matter how much they boast, they deceive themselves.

Mat_11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Mat_11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

But who needs Christ when we can boast of what we did.

Rom_2:23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God? As they do.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

 

[justbyfaith]

So as far as Salvation is concerned why fool with something that can only “CONDEMN” the Unregenerate Sinner?

The law has the power to convert the soul (Psalms 19:7 (kjv); it is a schoolmaster to lead men to Christ (Galatians 3:24); it shows us that we are sinners in need of a Saviour (Romans 3:20).

Us gentiles where and are still not, under the law, it was never given to us,

The law is a schoolmaster to lead every man to Christ; therefore even Gentiles are under the law. It is only those who are in Christ who are not under it. It was given that every man's mouth might be stopped; and so that all the world might become guilty before God (Romans 3:19). So, if all the world is guilty because of the law, it follows that all the world is under the law. Again, it is only those who are in Christ (who are in the world but not of it) who are not under the law.

 

[quietthinker]

No problem.....lol....I hope you did not apologies “ too soon”....just to be clear- Here are my thoughts in regard to the Law....If I am mistaken , show me how—-Biblically . Opinions mean nothing. Especially mine.....
Paul said the Law was “ weak and useless” Why did he say that? Because it had “ NO POWER” to Save! Paul knew where that “ Power” was.....It was in the Gospel Of 1Cor15:1-4. He said that Faith in the Gospel had Indwelling in it “ GOD’S POWER” to Save.....So as far as Salvation is concerned why fool with something that can only “CONDEMN” the Unregenerate Sinner? Something that does not quench the Sin Nature, But In fact , spurs a person to Sin More! Paul wrote that the Law was given so that “ Sin might Increase!”..... On the surface, that might sound crazy, but God could handle an increase in Sin—— He wanted people to get sick of it so that they might “ Turn to Him” in Faith— That thing that God is actually desiring ( “ without Faith it is Impossible to please God” )
A Wise man is Obedient to ANY of God’s Laws....He gave them to us for “ OUR” benefit —- not soHe could be the Cosmic Killjoy to take all of the Fun out of life, as many see Him.....If one obeys the Laws, God will be pleased and bless you for it —- He just will not “SAVE” you for it.If one chooses to go down the Obedience Road to obtain their Justification before a Holy God, they need to understand that the Standard for that means of Justification is PERFECTION.....24/7.....that is the “ Curse Of The Law”
Attempts to keep a System Of Laws That Even Paul proclaimed was something that neither “he nor his fathers could keep” Can Perhaps make a person “ Moral”......Unfortunately , God is not looking for Moral People Who mistakenly believe that they are “ fit for Heaven”. God is looking for DEAD PEOPLE, “ dead in trespasses and sin”. Not to have them “ turn over a New Leaf”, But to SEE that they are Lost Sinners that MUST have a Savior.God wants to take Dead People and make them ALIVE! “ Born Again”, as Jesus put it .
Paul said the Law was only Beneficial if it was “ used properly”. Proper use of the Law is to understand that God gave the Law to show that you can’t keep it. It was given to “ shut you up” in regards to any delusion that you “ CAN” keep it. It’s True purpose is to lead you to the One that DID keep it! We must Trust in the Shed Blood Of Jesus Plus Nothing for the purpose of Salvation.Once Saved, by Trusting Jesus Alone, God gives us the Gift Of His Holy Spirit, which will not change us , but TRANSFORM us.Something done from the inside out.....We can change our behaviors on the outside to please the Church Crowd .... to let them know that everything “Took”. But only God can Transform us internally and make us “ New Creations.” It’s that “ Inside of the Cup” thing that Jesus talked about.
Letting the Law “ take you by the Hand and lead you to Jesus” is what the Law is all about . “NOBODY comes to God unless the Spirit draw him”......This is how the Spirit “ draws men” .....the Conviction Of Sin....The Purpose Of The Law was to be that Sin Convictor.....” Turn to God” as the Lost Sinner That you are, put your Faith in Jesus ALONE to Save you and get the Holy Spirit That given time, will take care of any “ Obedience” That God wants to attend to . He will get to the Root Of all of your problems and as He Promised.....He will “ Finish the Job” That He Alone started and “ Save you to the Uttermost”.......You do Your part, which is to REST in the Gospel Of Grace and let God do His Part...make you fit for Heaven .....He will do this If you quit “ trying” to be Saved by Keeping Laws and start “ Trusting” to be Saved by Trusting in His Wonderful Promise, which is what true Faith is....You summon up the Faith—The Obedience Will Follow......Don’t put the Cart before the Horse....God Bless...

Salvation is not only from the consequences of sin ie, death but also from its power ie, sin. Sin is defined by the Law.....to be specific, the Ten Commandments.....it is the standard of judgement.

He who loves God also loves his Commandments for they are holy, just and good. Any argument against them is an overt/covert way to convince oneself that breaking them is ok.....subsequently the confusing circular talk.

What I mean by circular talk is; on the one hand you speak poorly of the Law calling it weak and useless; (your context is amiss) How is it amiss? ... you are blaming the Law for pointing out your failure....the problem being your failure/sin......on the other hand you speak about obedience....obedience to what?. Herein you do not understand how the two connect.

Its like the child blaming the parent when the parent catches the child with his hand in the cookie jar.

This exercise of blaming the Law which the scripture calls holy and just and good is unadulterated sleight of hand.
You want proof/evidence?.....your post reveals it.

 

[Enoch111]

This exercise of blaming the Law which the scripture calls holy and just and good is unadulterated sleight of hand.

Correct. The Law (the Ten Commandments) has many facets, but quite a few Christians are unable to grasp that. The Law not only exposes the sinner, but it also governs the saint by the power of the Spirit.

THE NEW BIRTH PUTS GOD'S LAW INTO HEARTS AND MINDS
Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. (Ezek 36:25-27)

For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: (Heb 8:10)

1. The New Covenant was made with Israel
2. Christ ratified the New Covenant with His blood
3. The New Covenant began the day Christ died and the temple veil was torn in two
4. The Holy Spirit was poured out "upon all flesh" on the day of Pentecost
5. The Church began with Jews who received the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost
6. Gentiles were added to the Church shortly thereafter
7. The laws, statutes, and judgments of God were written on hearts and minds by the Holy Spirit to enable Christians to be holy and walk in the Spirit. The Law of Love is a summation of all God's commandments.

 

[justbyfaith]

The law that is written on our hearts and minds is as it has been changed (Hebrews 7:12) from the letter to the spirit (Romans 7:6, 2 Corinthians 3:6).

 

[justbyfaith]

We receive the Holy Spirit by faith (Galatians 3:14) and as a result we bear the fruit of the Spirit against which there is no law (Galatians 5:22-23).

Therefore, we have a righteousness apart from the law that is attested to by the law and the prophets (Romans 3:21).

We do not obtain this righteousness by attempting to keep a set of do's and don'ts.

We obtain it by walking in the Spirit (Romans 8:4).

The law is there for believer and unbeliever alike to show us when we have sinned (Romans 3:20).