Christians and the Law of Moses

[mjrhealth]

which rules are you going to obey? perhaps better said is, whose rules are you going to obey?

Christ and Love...

 

[Mike Waters]

In the New Testament ”the Law and the Prophets” are coupled together some 12-13 times in a way that suggests their coupling to be of great significance.
Here are a selection of examples:-

Matthew 5:17 Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfil.
Matthew 7:12 Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets..
Matthew 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”
Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the Kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it.
Acts 13:15 And after the reading of the Law and the Prophets, the rulers of the synagogue sent to them, saying, “Men and brethren, if you have any word of exhortation for the people, say on.”
Acts 24:14 But this I confess to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect, so I worship the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets.
Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets.

Personally I lean strongly on Matthew chapter 5 where Christ lists 6 examples of “you have heard that it was said of old” followed by “But I say unto you”.
Prefaced by The first of the above examples “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
But that doesn’t mean that what was said in the Law and the prophets would be destroyed by lifting each one to a higher level of ‘spiritual’ application.

For instance “thou shalt not commit adultery” is not destroyed or negated in any way by “whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart”…it simply lifts the requirement to a new and higher spiritual level.
That surely is why Christ had preceded such words with “except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees (the very epitome of strict observers of the law) ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven”.

My position, for what it is worth, resolves itself in Galatians 3:23-25
“Before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster”.

 

[mailmandan]

Since you know nothing about this subject nor the judgment of the Lord, it is just as well that you say no more.

justbyfaith say no more? LOL! Good luck with that.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Hi, @Enoch111 , I see that you didn't quote any of Paul's epistles in this explanation, which means that you left out most of what the New Testament has to say about the Mosaic Law's relationship to Christians. You cannot conclude that the Law of Moses applies to Christians under the New Covenant if you include what Paul said about the Law.

The fact is that Christians, meaning those who are born of the Spirit, live by the "law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus," which has set us free from the "law of sin and death" (Rom 8:2) In Romans 6:14, Paul tells us "For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace." See, the Law of Moses doesn't solve the sin problem at all. In fact, Paul tells us in Romans 7 that he wouldn't know sin except through the Law (Rom 7:7), which Paul says "has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith" (Gal 3:24).

So, living under God's grace by faith, living by the Holy Spirit, is the only way to have freedom from and victory over sin! Of course, we first must be born again, the old sin nature (the flesh) crucified with Christ (Gal 2:20), so that we might "die to sin and live to righteousness" (1 Pet 2:24). "...for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God" (Rom 8:13-14).

We're told in Hebrews that the New Covenant is better than the Old Covenant (Heb 8:6), which is based on the Mosaic Law. But the New Covenant is not just new and improved (like products on the TV commercials, lol); it's NEW!! It's a different way to live because those under this covenant have the Holy Spirit indwelling us and guiding us.... This is so much better than a list of rules, meaning the Law, because that list doesn't give specific guidance for every situation in life even though it contains OVER 600 rules, and this list doesn't empower us to keep it. But the power of the Holy Spirit indwelling us empowers us to live in a way that is pleasing to God!! And it is not burdensome to live this way because the Holy Spirit fills us through and through when we submit ourselves to Him!

Think about it. The Hebrews didn't have God's Spirit indwelling them and empowering them, but we believers in Jesus Christ have GOD ALMIGHTY living in us!! See the difference? It's a HUGE difference. We are truly blessed to live by grace through faith empowered by the Holy Spirit IN us!

Paul spent quite a bit of time explaining to the Galatians the problem of trying to live under the Law as believers. They had received Christ as their Savior--BY FAITH. But they were trying to live out the Christian life under the Law, at least, some of it. Listen to Paul's scathing indictment of those believers trying to live the Christian life by the Law.

Gal 3:1-14--You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?

Even so Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness. Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham. The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “All the nations will be blessed in you.” So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.

For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them.” Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “ The righteous man shall live by faith.” However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “HE who practices them shall live by them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on A tree”— in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Edit: No doubt, someone will quote James 2:14 that says "faith without works is dead." But what are these works that James is talking about? Are they works of the Law, meaning works that result from keeping the Mosaic Law??

Here's what James said in James 2:14-18:

What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that? Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.
But someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.”

James doesn't mention the Mosaic Law in this passage. I believe that He is NOT talking about works of the Law, but works of faith, or works that are a result of our faith in Jesus Christ. IOW, he's talking about things we do based on faith, living according to the Spirit as He leads.... James is saying that if our lives don't demonstrate that we have saving faith, then there's a question about whether we have faith at all. So, works of faith prove that we have faith! And these good works that result from faith in Jesus have been prepared by God for us to walk in.

Ephesians 2:8-10--For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

 

[Enoch111]

Hi, Enoch, I see that you didn't quote any of Paul's epistles in this explanation, which means that you left out most of what the New Testament has to say about the Mosaic Law's relationship to Christians.

Not really. I summed up it in a few words:"And they are summed up in the Law of Christ, which is the Law of Love. So Christians are not lawless and devoid of the commandments of God. Indeed the Law of Love is even more stringent than the Law of Moses."

Paul's epistles simply show Christians that they are not under the Old Covenant, but under the New Covenant, and the Law of Christ applies under the New Covenant.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Not really. I summed up it in a few words:"And they are summed up in the Law of Christ, which is the Law of Love. So Christians are not lawless and devoid of the commandments of God. Indeed the Law of Love is even more stringent than the Law of Moses."

Paul's epistles simply show Christians that they are not under the Old Covenant, but under the New Covenant, and the Law of Christ applies under the New Covenant.

Tsk, tsk... Paul's epistles are necessary for understanding the Christian's relationship to the Mosaic Law. You cannot leave them out!

 

[Enoch111]

Tisk, tisk... Paul's epistles are ESSENTIAL for understanding the Christian's relationship to the Mosaic Law. You cannot leave them out!

One sentence should suffice: Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.(Rom 3:20). Less is more.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

One sentence should suffice: Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.(Rom 3:20). Less is more.

I could have quoted a lot more, but I quoted very little of Paul's volumes about the Law that shows that Christians are not under the Law. You quoted only one verse.

But I would say to you, go ahead and try to keep the Law. You will NOT have victory over sin!

Gal 5:4-5--You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness.

Romans 7:4-6--Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death. But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

 

[Enoch111]

In the New Testament ”the Law and the Prophets” are coupled together some 12-13 times in a way that suggests their coupling to be of great significance.

When Jesus spoke of "the Law and the Prophets" He was really speaking about the ENTIRE Old Testament (the Hebrew Tanakh). The Tanakh has three major divisions: (1)Torah (the Law), (2) Neviim (the Prophets, and (3) Ketuvim (the Psalms or Writings) also regarded as written by prophets.

Jesus came to FULFIL the Law and the Prophets in His life, death, burial, resurrection, and ascension. Thereby He established the New Covenant.

 

[Enoch111]

But I would say to you, go ahead and try to keep the Law. You will NOT have victory over sin!

What makes you think that I am suggesting that Christians are to "keep the Law" (the Law of Moses)? As I have already pointed out the Old Covenant has been replaced by the New Covenant.

On the other hand, if you are rejecting the Law of Christ, you have a big problem. The Law of Christ is also called the Royal Law, the Law of Liberty, or the Law of Love. And every Christian is under that Law -- AFTER SALVATION.

As to "victory over sin" God gives every believer the GIFT of the Holy Spirit, and it is by the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit that Christians can refuse to sin. Thus Paul says "Sin shall NOT have dominion over you".

 

[Prayer Warrior]

What makes you think that I am suggesting that Christians are to "keep the Law" (the Law of Moses)? As I have already pointed out the Old Covenant has been replaced by the New Covenant.

On the other hand, if you are rejecting the Law of Christ, you have a big problem. The Law of Christ is also called the Royal Law, the Law of Liberty, or the Law of Love. And every Christian is under that Law -- AFTER SALVATION.

As to "victory over sin" God gives every believer the GIFT of the Holy Spirit, and it is by the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit that Christians can refuse to sin. Thus Paul says "Sin shall NOT have dominion over you".

It seems that you're combining part of, or a summary of, the Mosaic Law with grace. But any explanation of the Christian's relationship to the Mosaic Law would have to include an explanation of living under grace according to the Holy Spirit, which is what Paul explains in his epistles.

Define the "law of Christ" with the following verse in mind.

Gal 6:1-2--Brethren, even if anyone is caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, so that you too will not be tempted. Bear one another’s burdens, and thereby fulfill the law of Christ.

 

[Yan]

You have a very elementary understanding of the Ten Commandments. They are the foundation of Christ's Law of Love.

Yes it is, but since Moses nobody runs it. Instead of the Israel misused the Law (2 Kings 18:1-4). The Israelites misused the Law as an oppressing tools of the high priest to the people (sinners), they lack of compassion. This wrong tendency had shown on how did the scribes and pharisee put the sinners to be stoned in front of Jesus (John 8:1-7). So, the law does not make the high priests to love the sinners, but it makes them to be more savage. This situation is the main concern why did the law brings all mankind into curse (Galatians 3:10-14).
The crucifixion of Jesus was to fulfill the cancelation of the law itself because Jesus was the source of the law (Hebrews 9:13-28), and by the cancelation of the law will brings sins are no longer works in the works of the grace (Romans 6:10-11; Romans 7:7-9).
That's why the blood of Jesus was dripping on the ark lid when Jesus died on the cross and earthquake was breaking the hole into the ark to cancel the law (Ephesians 2:15).
- Ark of Covenant, Pt. 1

 

[justbyfaith]

On the other hand, if you are rejecting the Law of Christ, you have a big problem. The Law of Christ is also called the Royal Law, the Law of Liberty, or the Law of Love. And every Christian is under that Law -- AFTER SALVATION.

There is a difference between being under the law of Christ and being under the law to Christ. Look it up (1 Corinthians 9:21) in the kjv.

 

[Enoch111]

Yes it is, but since Moses nobody runs it.

That is incorrect. You should be aware that the Ten Commandments are embedded in the New Covenant, but written on hearts and minds by the Holy Spirit: For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: (Heb 8:10)

Christ summed up the Ten Commandments (also called "the Law") with the TWO greatest commandments, then summed up those two with the ONE great commandment, which is the Law of Love: This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. (John 15:12) And Paul tied this back to the Ten Commandments:

ROMANS 13: THE LAW OF LOVE
7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the Law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the Law.

 

[Enoch111]

There is a difference between being under the law of Christ and being under the law to Christ. Look it up (1 Corinthians 9:21) in the kjv.

This is called quibbling over words. They both mean the same thing. This is just like tithing mint and cumin and ignoring the weightier matters of the Law.

 

[Enoch111]

It seems that you're combining part of, or a summary of, the Mosaic Law with grace.

You keep talking about "the Mosaic Law" (613 commandments) while I am talking about the Ten Commandments (originally written on tablets of stone by the finger of God, and now written on hearts and minds by the Holy Spirit).

And if you believe they have nothing to do with grace, then take another look at the teachings of Christ and the apostles: For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world (Titus 2:11,12)

Now if any Christian believes that living soberly, righteously, and godly has nothing to do with the Ten Commandments, then he or she seriously does not understand the teachings of Christ.

 

[justbyfaith]

This is called quibbling over words. They both mean the same thing. This is just like tithing mint and cumin and ignoring the weightier matters of the Law.

Nope. It makes a difference in how you would look at it.

 

[Yan]

That is incorrect. You should be aware that the Ten Commandments are embedded in the New Covenant, but written on hearts and minds by the Holy Spirit: For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: (Heb 8:10)

Christ summed up the Ten Commandments (also called "the Law") with the TWO greatest commandments, then summed up those two with the ONE great commandment, which is the Law of Love: This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. (John 15:12) And Paul tied this back to the Ten Commandments:

ROMANS 13: THE LAW OF LOVE
7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the Law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the Law.

See this scriptures (John 7:14-24).

 

[Joseph77]

See this scriptures (John 7:14-24).

That does not come through/ render on my screen nor on many cell phones people use to visit this forum.
Can you print it out ?

 

[Yan]

That does not come through/ render on my screen nor on many cell phones people use to visit this forum.
Can you print it out ?

19. Did not Moses give you the law, and [yet] none of you doeth the law? Why seek ye to kill me?