Salvation Through Baptism ???

[mailmandan]

You need to properly harmonize ALL of scripture with ALL scripture before reaching your conclusion on doctrine.

I already have and the end result is not salvation by works, but salvation through faith, not works. ;)

 

[mailmandan]

That is insufficient to build a doctrine that will stand the test.

NOWHERE does the Bible say that "whoever is not water baptized will be condemned" and that's sufficient enough for me. ;) Plus there are multiple verses in scripture which make it clear that man is saved through belief/faith "apart from additions or modifications." (Luke 7:50; 8:12; John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18; Romans 1:16; 3:24-28; 4:5-6; 5:1; 10:4; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Galatians 2:16; 3:6-8, 26; Ephesians 2:8; Philippians 3:9; 2 Timothy 3:15; Hebrews 10:39; 1 Peter 1:5; 1 John 5:13 etc..). That is also sufficient enough for me.

 

[JunChosen]

I already have and the end result is not salvation by works, but salvation through faith, not works. ;)

If you have faith, then why do you need to exercise it?

To God Be The Glory

 

[Behold]

And it is a good thing not to decide on doctrine based on one verse of scripture.

The bible is a spiritual book.
Verses are Spirit and they are Light.
Believers are to be taught how to understand scripture, by Spirit filled teachers, and they are to study the word for themselves.
Its both.
Understanding how to "see" the verses doctrinally is to compare scripture with scripture and notice the balance.
For example, if you are studying "eternal life", and the devil takes you to a verse that suggests that eternal life isn't eternal, then that verse is not to be used to rightly divide HOW to understand what "eternal life" means.

 

[Marymog]

I already have and the end result is not salvation by works, but salvation through faith, not works. ;)

Ohhhhh...so YOU are the one who can properly harmonize scripture. Why have I been listening to all these other false teachers over the years

 

[JunChosen]

Ohhhhh...so YOU are the one who can properly harmonize scripture. Why have I been listening to all these other false teachers over the years

Because you are easily tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine.

 

[Behold]

BTW....Scripture says “He who endures to the end will be saved”.

Endures to the end of what?
If you read vs 15, yours is 13, you'll discover that the "end" is the Great Trib. So this verse isnt talking to the born again.
The born again dont endure to be saved, .......we are born again to be saved.

 

[Marymog]

Because you are easily tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine.

I have been I will now only listen to you

 

[JunChosen]

I have been I will now only listen to you[/QUOTE]

Believe me you will be better off. And, I must say sarcasm is your only vocabulary in the English language.

To God Be The Glory

 

[marksman]

NOWHERE does the Bible say that "whoever is not water baptized will be condemned" and that's sufficient enough for me. ;) Plus there are multiple verses in scripture which make it clear that man is saved through belief/faith "apart from additions or modifications." (Luke 7:50; 8:12; John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18; Romans 1:16; 3:24-28; 4:5-6; 5:1; 10:4; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Galatians 2:16; 3:6-8, 26; Ephesians 2:8; Philippians 3:9; 2 Timothy 3:15; Hebrews 10:39; 1 Peter 1:5; 1 John 5:13 etc..). That is also sufficient enough for me.

OK. Now do an exegesis of the verses.

 

[Tong2020]

And as can be learned from God's words in scriptures, since the beginning, the salvation of God is by grace through faith. That is the way of the Lord concerning the salvation of man yesterday, today, and tomorrow. The salvation of God was never through baptism in any way shape or form in the past from the beginning until before the cross, and there is no reason why that should change after the cross.

What gospel do you preach, a gospel of baptism or the gospel of Jesus Christ?

Baptism is not the gospel, and so it is not what the apostles preached, nor should it be what the Christians should preach.

Baptism is NOT the power of God to salvation for any man.

Tong
R0763

 

[mailmandan]

Ohhhhh...so YOU are the one who can properly harmonize scripture. Why have I been listening to all these other false teachers over the years

No need for sarcasm. I have come across numerous believers over the years who properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching their conclusion on doctrine. Never said I was the only one who did. If you are listening to teachers who teach salvation by faith (their version of faith) and works, then you are listening to false teachers.

 

[mailmandan]

OK. Now do an exegesis of the verses.

Those verses are self explanatory. We are saved through belief/faith "apart from additions or modifications." Works-salvationists will resort to eisegesis of those verses and try to "shoe horn" works "into" salvation through belief/faith. Example below from a statement made by a works-salvationist:

We ARE saved by faith - as long as you properly define "Faith". Faith is NOT simply "believing". Faith INCLUDES: Being baptized, eating His body and drinking His blood/partaking the Lord's Supper during Mass, works of mercy and charity, obeying his commandments, doing the will of the Father etc..

Prior to making this statement above in blue, the person who made that statement told me that he did not teach works salvation, yet his argument about faith being "defined as" and INCLUDES these works above is just sugar coated double talk and equates to salvation by faith (his version of faith) and works.

 

[JunChosen]

marksman said: ↑
OK. Now do an exegesis of the verses.

Those verses are
self explanatory. We are saved through belief/faith

BUT BELIEF/FAITH IS WORKS! AND, is contrary to Ephesians 2:8-9.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Marymog]

I believe you

 

[JunChosen]

I believe you

I hope this is not a sarcastic remark. Most Christians believe that belief/faith is a NOT a works gospel.

 

[kcnalp]

Hi

ACTS 2:38
Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

So is baptism necessary in order to receive the Holy Spirit?

And is baptism necessary for salvation? If a person has accepted Jesus Christ by faith and has made a full repentance, yet have not become baptized.. are they saved.

The thief on the cross wasn't baptized. He was saved.

 

[Tong2020]

I hope this is not a sarcastic remark. Most Christians believe that belief/faith is a NOT a works gospel.

If you consider that as a works gospel, the truth remains that God's salvation is through faith and not through baptism, in answer to the question topic of the thread.

If you believe that belief/faith is a works gospel, then to you, your faith is one that is coming from you, that is, of your working, and not God's. Is that what your faith is?

Tong
R0767

 

[JunChosen]

If you believe that belief/faith is a works gospel, then to you, your faith is one that is coming from you, that is, of your working, and not God's. Is that what your faith is?
Tong
R0767

It's obvious that I'm not advocating as to your suggestions. It is a matter of how Ephesians 2:8-9 is understood/interpreted.

John 6:44 reads:
"No man can (have the power) come to me, except the Father which has sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."

This is the only criteria by which an individual can be saved.

John 6:37:
"All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me (believers only) I will in no wise cast out.

To God Be The Glory

 

[marksman]

Those verses are self explanatory. We are saved through belief/faith "apart from additions or modifications." Works-salvationists will resort to eisegesis of those verses and try to "shoe horn" works "into" salvation through belief/faith. Example below from a statement made by a works-salvationist:

We ARE saved by faith - as long as you properly define "Faith". Faith is NOT simply "believing". Faith INCLUDES: Being baptized, eating His body and drinking His blood/partaking the Lord's Supper during Mass, works of mercy and charity, obeying his commandments, doing the will of the Father etc..

Prior to making this statement above in blue, the person who made that statement told me that he did not teach works salvation, yet his argument about faith being "defined as" and INCLUDES these works above is just sugar coated double talk and equates to salvation by faith (his version of faith) and works.

"Those verses are self-explanatory" is not exegesis.

And I have never said anything like the words in blue so I cannot see the relevance to me.