Becoming a perfect Disciple of Christ

[Cristo Rei]

Paul's struggle here isn't with the world and the devil.
Notice that he has the struggle, then he solves the struggle...>""delivers me".
Paul says this..>"Christ always gives him the VICTORY".

So, what Paul is explaining is the process of coming into the understanding of why a believer fails to live holy and is confessing and repenting, = "oh wretched man that i am".. = THE FLESH.....walking in the flesh....trying to stop sinning by WILL POWER.

then......"thanks be to God"..."Christ always gives me the Victory"......"if you walk in the Spirit you shall not SIN"..

So, we see Paul explaining the process of wrong believing and the eventual right believing that led to perfected discipleship.
This is what most of My Thread's are teaching.
How to do this...how to believe RIGHT.

"Suppose we claim we are without sin. Then we are fooling ourselves. The truth is not in us"

Im sorry that u continue to believe what u do. That isn't the accepted interpretation of our church nor of most Christians.
Hate, anger, sloth, selfish ambition, lust, envy, discord, greed, dissent, wrath, factions, pride and the like is in us.

"If we claim we have not sinned, we are calling God a liar. His word is not in us"

 

[Episkopos]

Im only as Righteous as the Blood of God has made me.
How righteous, how HOLY is God's Blood (Jesus on the Cross)?
Do you have any idea?
Well, if you can realize that, then you'll understand that all the Born again, (me included) are exactly that like that, for eternity.
Welcome to Salvation.

First you can't claim the blood of Jesus for yourself. There is a sovereign God. This is not like a riot where you can break in and steal whatever you want. Jesus is coming as a thief in the night to take away what so many believe they have greedily obtained by their own religious beliefs.

The blood of Jesus is a living blood...not a dead form of religion as you are espousing. The life is in the blood. As we live IN Him and walk IN Him we are cleansed by His life in us.

This cult of the born again is equivalent to the cult of the Jews who think that their natural birth entitles them to an eternity of bliss.

But the truth is that we will be judged for every thought, word and deed. And to whom much is given MORE is required.

You reap what you sow. (Not what Jesus sowed. One must live as a sacrifice to partake of Christ)

So then your vain boasting is far worse than what is seen in the world.

Welcome to reality check...

 

[Behold]

First you can't claim the blood of Jesus for yourself. There is a sovereign God.

I can claim the Blood of Jesus for myself, and i can claim that im the Righteousness of God in Christ.
I can Claim and DO Claim :

1. Im a Son of God
2. Born again
3. Heir of God
4. Joint Heir with Christ
5. Im..."As Christ is, so are the born again, IN THIS WORLD"
6. Im ... "Seated in Heavenly places, in Christ"....right now and forever.
7. Im ..."In Christ"., and there is no sin in Christ.
8. Im .. ."The Temple of the Holy Spirit"
9. Im the "Body of Christ".
9. Im "sealed until the day of Redemption "in Christ".
10. Im a "Saint"
11. Im a "Brethren"
12. Im "Blood Bought"
13. Im "justified by Faith"
14. I have "eternal Life"
15. Im "ONE" with God and Christ.
16. Im a part of "the Bride of Christ".

17, and i claim that you are a Legalist, proven by the fact that you are a sinning self saver, who has no understanding of anything i just wrote, including the Grace of God or the Blood Atonement,

 

[Behold]

"Suppose we claim we are without sin. Then we are fooling ourselves. The truth is not in us"

Yes, i understand that you have read this one verse.
Yet, there are others.
Go and read where John is talking to the BORN AGAIN...and not just people (unbelievers) who are defined as "WE".
Read 1 John 3. and you'll discover that the same Apostle in the same EPISTLE says that the born again, "can't sin".
Read it, and believe it.
Try that.

 

[Episkopos]

I can claim the Blood of Jesus for myself, and i can claim that im the Righteousness of God in Christ.
I can Claim and DO Claim :

1. Im a Son of God
2. Born again
3. Heir of God
4. Joint Heir with Christ
5. Im..."As Christ is, so are the born again, IN THIS WORLD"
6. Im ... "Seated in Heavenly places, in Christ"....right now and forever.
7. Im ..."In Christ"., and there is no sin in Christ.
8. Im .. ."The Temple of the Holy Spirit"
9. Im the "Body of Christ".
9. Im "sealed until the day of Redemption "in Christ".
10. Im a "Saint"
11. Im a "Brethren"
12. Im "Blood Bought"
13. Im "justified by Faith"
14. I have "eternal Life"
15. Im "ONE" with God and Christ.
16. Im a part of "the Bride of Christ".

17, and i claim that you are a Legalist, proven by the fact that you are a sinning self saver, who has no understanding of anything i just wrote, including the Grace of God or the Blood Atonement,

Anybody can claim that...it's easy...just read the bible and claim all the good stuff for yourself while ignoring all the admonitions, teachings and warnings. Also dump any humility and fear of God in favour of a smug self-assurance. :)

You forgot from your list

17. Self-justified
18. Delusional
19. Indoctrinated
20. Arrogant
21. Pharisaical
22. Puffed up
23. Spoiled
24. Lawless
25. Stealer of holy things (thief)
26. Liar
etc...

 

[Joseph77]

Anybody can claim that...it's easy...just read the bible and claim all the good stuff for yourself while ignoring all the admonitions, teachings and warnings. Also dump any humility and fear of God in favour of a smug self-assurance.

Good.
... but .... (isn't this a warning ? ) .... a description of the false gospel that destroys souls and seeks to bring everyone else down with it ?

 

[Behold]

Anybody can claim that...it's easy...just read the bible and claim all the good stuff for yourself while ignoring all the admonitions, teachings and warnings. Also dump any humility and fear of God in favour of a smug self-assurance. :)

You forgot from your list

17. Self-justified
18. Delusional
19. Indoctrinated
20. Arrogant
21. Pharisaical
22. Puffed up
23. Spoiled
24. Lawless
25. Stealer of holy things (thief)
26. Liar
etc...

Actually to know what i just posted, to understand it, and be able to teach it and Preach it, you have to have a very thorough knowledge of the doctrines of Paul and a deep understanding of Jusitification by Faith.
This takes years of study and receiving revelation.
The reason all this is new to you, (even tho you'll claim you know all this to save face) and you say it seems like "heresy" and "gnostic" teaching.... is because you are deep into heresy, and seem to have no desire to stop sinning.
Your heresy is so thick that it does not even allow you to understand the most basic principles of the Blood Atonement.
You would have to do a "Google" search to find out how to explain the Blood Atonement, and even then, you'd not admit you did this..


Listen, Episkopos.....Think on this, and i hope it helps you.
-

Jesus came to set you free from the law of sin and death, that is the "power of the Law" that keeps you sinning.
See, this is the "curse of the Law", and Jesus came to "remove the curse of the Law".
Most believers have actually been taught to keep themselves under the law by Pulpits and Teachers .....that is, they are taught to try to be good to be accepted by God. Or to try to keep your salvation. And all that rotten theology causes poisoned thinking that manifests as wrong believing..... and that puts you under the bondage of the Law and that is why you keep doing wrong, when you want to do right......same as Paul is explaining. "that i would do, i do not, and that i dont want to do, i do", = Walking in the FLESH.

So, Paul gives you the answer....the solution...

Romans 8:6... ""The MIND governed by the flesh is death, but the MIND governed by the Spirit is life and peace.""

That means... if you walk in the flesh you are walking under the dominion of the Law , which is death...which is wrong believing which causes sinning and sinning and can't ever Live Holy and stay there. vs, the Right Mind, the "Mind of Christ", right believing, which is to walk in the correct Spiritual understanding, or.. to "walk in the Spirit" that empowers Holy Living.

Then Paul tells you this... 1 Corinthians 15:57

""But thanks be to God, which giveth us the VICTORY = through our Lord Jesus Christ.""

Now do you see that VICTORY, episkopos? That is complete and constant victory or deliverance from sinning. And notice that this comes "through Jesus"... not you. Not your striving to be holy, and straining to do right. But your victory comes from JESUS, who said...>"apart from Me, you can do NOTHING".
And that is the TRUTH. Apart from the right understanding of how to walk in the Spirit, and in the mind of Christ, you can do nothing that will cause you to always live Holy.

So, To walk in the Spirit and to have the Mind of Christ, is to have mental alignment with the Truth that sets you free. .. Which means, When you are mentally walking in that Truth, then you are "walking in the Light." and have the MIND of Right Believing...

And how do you get that episkopos?

You have to renew your mind.

You have to empty your head of all ideas and lies you have believed regarding anything that is related to you trying to be accepted by God. You have to let go of all self effort to try to be accepted by God. You have to literally come to a mental place where you have Full Assurace of your Salvation that is totally and only dependent on the Blood of Jesus, maintaining it for you as God's gift to you.
You have to exist here in your Heart.....> Hebrews 13:9 "it is good that the heart be ESTABLISHED WITH GRACE"..and not with theology, and doctrine, and religious concepts..... but ONLY GRACE.

 

[justbyfaith]

There seems to be a pitting of scripture against scripture in this combination of 1 John 3:5 and 1 John 5:20 as these together are pitted against 1 John 1:8.

But I would say that when two scriptures together are pitted against a singular scripture, that that singular scripture, like a sword, will cut those two scriptures, which are taken as one, back in two.

The reality is that God sometimes uses hyperbole in His integrated message system.

The reality is that it is *as good as if* we have no sin as believers; because when the element of sin is rendered dead, it has no power over you; and therefore it is as good as gone.

But that we all have indwelling sin is clear when you take a sincere look at 1 John 1:8.

If you are deceiving yourself and the truth is not in you, that is a serious thing. You have gone astray from the faith; and James 5:19-20 applies.

 

[Behold]

There seems to be a pitting of scripture against scripture in this combination of 1 John 3:5 and 1 John 5:20 as these together are pitted against 1 John 1:8.

Its not "pitted scriptures" that are knocking you off your High Horse, its a lack of Spiritual Discernment of The New Testament, that is your problem.
This is not going to change.
You are too deep in "self" to be freed.

 

[Cristo Rei]

Yes, i understand that you have read this one verse.
Yet, there are others.
Go and read where John is talking to the BORN AGAIN...and not just people (unbelievers) who are defined as "WE".
Read 1 John 3. and you'll discover that the same Apostle in the same EPISTLE says that the born again, "can't sin".
Read it, and believe it.
Try that.

I know. I acknowledged that there is scripture that supports both your belief and ours and i gave a possible explanation.
But you dismiss my explanation while twisting and ignoring any scripture that is contrary to your belief.

 

[Behold]

I know. I acknowledged that there is scripture that supports both your belief and ours and i gave a possible explanation.
But you dismiss my explanation while twisting and ignoring any scripture that is contrary to your belief.

You write with a mind that is not dull.
I read you.
So, you will understand that God's bible, especially the NT, is some parts Literal, some parts symbolic, and some parts allegoric.

When we read verses...... sometimes they SEEM to contradict, tho they do not.

For example...

1. "If we say we have no sin"

2." The born again can't sin."

So, that is not a contradiction.. that is 2 things God is showing us.
One, is that a Preacher, Apostle, will discern the level of understanding he faces in the Audience., and he teaches TO that level.
If im talking to a room full of babes in Christ then i speak to that Level.
If im talking to room full of Theologians, then i speak to that level.
The Apostles do this, also.
So, that is one thing that happens when Apostles talk to different Groups, and if we dont recognize this, we will try to jam all verses into one theological box and that will create heresy within our theology.
We MUST "rightly DIVIDE" the word, or we will wrongly divide it, and 42,000 denominations are found as the outcome.

Next, when a verse is talking to the "born again", as John is doing in 1 Jn 3, then he speaks to them as the rules of the Blood Atonement apply.
= You can't sin......no sin found.
This is the EFFECT, the eternal effect of God's BLOOD that has the power to always keep you righteous, at all times.

Reader, go and read Romans 4:8.
God does not charge you with your sin, in eternity, if you are born again.
HE CANT.
He has already Judged Jesus for ALL Your sin.
God does not "double judge"..>He does not accept the Blood of Jesus, to then judge you for what the BLood of Jesus has resolved for you.

 

[marks]

There seems to be a pitting of scripture against scripture in this combination of 1 John 3:5 and 1 John 5:20 as these together are pitted against 1 John 1:8.

But I would say that when two scriptures together are pitted against a singular scripture, that that singular scripture, like a sword, will cut those two scriptures, which are taken as one, back in two.

The reality is that God sometimes uses hyperbole in His integrated message system.

The reality is that it is *as good as if* we have no sin as believers; because when the element of sin is rendered dead, it has no power over you; and therefore it is as good as gone.

But that we all have indwelling sin is clear when you take a sincere look at 1 John 1:8.

If you are deceiving yourself and the truth is not in you, that is a serious thing. You have gone astray from the faith; and James 5:19-20 applies.

I think that this passage is contrasting those who claim that they have no sin to those who confess their sin. Those who say they have no sin, and therefore do not confess, and therefore remain in their sins, unforgiven.

But when we confess our sin, God forgives us, and justifies us, and begets us a new creature, the spirit child of God, who is righteous, like his Father is righteous, holy like his Father is holy, because our very life itself is from God.

It is true that we live in sinful flesh, corrupted by both nature and nurture, yet that corrupted flesh is no longer who we are. And it has no power over us, the children of our Heavenly Father.

It's not "as good as gone", it IS gone. From us. But not the bodies we live in. So we are told to put off the old man, and put on the new man. Putting on the new man = putting on Christ. To your faith add virtue, to virtue add knowledge,

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

Actually to know what i just posted, to understand it, and be able to teach it and Preach it, you have to have a very thorough knowledge of the doctrines of Paul and a deep understanding of Jusitification by Faith.
This takes years of study and receiving revelation.
The reason all this is new to you, (even tho you'll claim you know all this to save face) and you say it seems like "heresy" and "gnostic" teaching.... is because you are deep into heresy, and seem to have no desire to stop sinning.
Your heresy is so thick that it does not even allow you to understand the most basic principles of the Blood Atonement.
You would have to do a "Google" search to find out how to explain the Blood Atonement, and even then, you'd not admit you did this..


Listen, Episkopos.....Think on this, and i hope it helps you.
-

Jesus came to set you free from the law of sin and death, that is the "power of the Law" that keeps you sinning.
See, this is the "curse of the Law", and Jesus came to "remove the curse of the Law".
Most believers have actually been taught to keep themselves under the law by Pulpits and Teachers .....that is, they are taught to try to be good to be accepted by God. Or to try to keep your salvation. And all that rotten theology causes poisoned thinking that manifests as wrong believing..... and that puts you under the bondage of the Law and that is why you keep doing wrong, when you want to do right......same as Paul is explaining. "that i would do, i do not, and that i dont want to do, i do", = Walking in the FLESH.

So, Paul gives you the answer....the solution...

Romans 8:6... ""The MIND governed by the flesh is death, but the MIND governed by the Spirit is life and peace.""

That means... if you walk in the flesh you are walking under the dominion of the Law , which is death...which is wrong believing which causes sinning and sinning and can't ever Live Holy and stay there. vs, the Right Mind, the "Mind of Christ", right believing, which is to walk in the correct Spiritual understanding, or.. to "walk in the Spirit" that empowers Holy Living.

Then Paul tells you this... 1 Corinthians 15:57

""But thanks be to God, which giveth us the VICTORY = through our Lord Jesus Christ.""

Now do you see that VICTORY, episkopos? That is complete and constant victory or deliverance from sinning. And notice that this comes "through Jesus"... not you. Not your striving to be holy, and straining to do right. But your victory comes from JESUS, who said...>"apart from Me, you can do NOTHING".
And that is the TRUTH. Apart from the right understanding of how to walk in the Spirit, and in the mind of Christ, you can do nothing that will cause you to always live Holy.

So, To walk in the Spirit and to have the Mind of Christ, is to have mental alignment with the Truth that sets you free. .. Which means, When you are mentally walking in that Truth, then you are "walking in the Light." and have the MIND of Right Believing...

And how do you get that episkopos?

You have to renew your mind.

You have to empty your head of all ideas and lies you have believed regarding anything that is related to you trying to be accepted by God. You have to let go of all self effort to try to be accepted by God. You have to literally come to a mental place where you have Full Assurace of your Salvation that is totally and only dependent on the Blood of Jesus, maintaining it for you as God's gift to you.
You have to exist here in your Heart.....> Hebrews 13:9 "it is good that the heart be ESTABLISHED WITH GRACE"..and not with theology, and doctrine, and religious concepts..... but ONLY GRACE.

If you read a superman comic book...would you claim afterwards to be able to leap tall buildings in a single bound and fly faster than a speeding bullet...because you read about it?

 

[justbyfaith]

Its not "pitted scriptures" that are knocking you off your High Horse, its a lack of Spiritual Discernment of The New Testament, that is your problem.
This is not going to change.
You are too deep in "self" to be freed.

I'm afraid you have three fingers pointing back at you (Matthew 7:1-5, Luke 6:41-42).

If you had discernment in the understanding of the New Testament, you would not be teaching gnosticism here, in contradiction to 1 John 1:7-9.

The majority of your posts are leveled against these three verses. Sometimes, you can even make a biblical case against them. Which makes your writings even more dangerous to the body.

 

[justbyfaith]

It's not "as good as gone", it IS gone. From us. But not the bodies we live in.

The fact that it is not gone from the bodies we live in means that it is not gone; but as good as gone.

 

[Behold]

If you read a superman comic book...would you claim afterwards to be able to leap tall buildings in a single bound and fly faster than a speeding bullet...because you read about it?

Here is some more.
I hope you find Grace.

--
Episkopos....."work out your salvation IN awe and wonder".... does not mean "work to keep it, or work to make yourself worthy, or work to keep yourself worthy".

"working out your salvaiton".... is like Learning how to Paint.. Its to have all the tools available and you learn how to produce something beautiful which is a Holy life being lived for Christ.

The right idea is to learn how to live in the available power of Jesus so that you always live in the Victory. That is how you "work out your salvation"

So how do you do that? A.) You have to learn how to let the Power of Jesus give you the Victory.

And how do you do that? B.) You do that by resting in Grace and flowing in the Spirit.... that is to walk in the Light.

And how do you do that? C.) You LEARN to live in the PEACE of God, which is the Faith that pleases God. = You do this by right believing which causing right living.

 

[Episkopos]

Here is some more.
I hope you find Grace.

--
Episkopos....."work out your salvation IN awe and wonder".... does not mean "work to keep it, or work to make yourself worthy, or work to keep yourself worthy".

"working out your salvaiton".... is like Learning how to Paint.. Its to have all the tools available and you learn how to produce something beautiful which is a Holy life being lived for Christ.

The right idea is to learn how to live in the available power of Jesus so that you always live in the Victory. That is how you "work out your salvation"

So how do you do that? A.) You have to learn how to let the Power of Jesus give you the Victory.

And how do you do that? B.) You do that by resting in Grace and flowing in the Spirit.... that is to walk in the Light.

And how do you do that? C.) You LEARN to live in the PEACE of God, which is the Faith that pleases God. = You do this by right believing which causing right living.

We work out our salvation by being purged from the iniquity that is in every man....and this AFTER being born again. They who are purged from their soulish power will be vessels of honour. And they who claim mighty things for themselves because of an equipping gift....without being crucified in the soul life...will be vessels of dishonour. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

A person can only walk in the Spirit when crucified. Otherwise one must carry his own cross daily to be LED (to the cross) by the Spirit.

 

[Behold]

----

 

[Behold]

We work out our salvation by being purged from the iniquity that is in every man....and this AFTER being born again. They who are purged from their soulish power will be vessels of honour. And they who claim mighty things for themselves because of an equipping gift....without being crucified in the soul life...will be vessels of dishonour. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
A person can only walk in the Spirit when crucified. Otherwise one must carry his own cross daily to be LED (to the cross) by the Spirit.

episkopos...
Something that is interesting is that if a person believes they can "lose it", its because they are trusting in themselves to keep it. So, that means they are not trusting in Christ to keep them saved, but only acknowledge that He began their Salvation. So, if anyone could lose their salvation because they have lost their faith, its the people who think and believe that they can lose their salvation, because the reason they believe this is because they are no longer trusting in Christ to keep them saved.....See how that works? So, you have literally become the victims of your own Christ Rejecting heresy, and you are oblivious to you own lack of True Faith, as you spiritual condition. You are the pot calling the kettle black, and it is you who is both the pot and the black.

 

[Episkopos]

episkopos...
Something that is interesting is that if a person believes they can "lose it", its because they are trusting in themselves to keep it. So, that means they are not trusting in Christ to keep them saved, but only acknowledge that He began their Salvation. So, if anyone could lose their salvation because they have lost their faith, its the people who think and believe that they can lose their salvation, because the reason they believe this is because they are no longer trusting in Christ to keep them saved.....See how that works? So, you have literally become the victims of your own Christ Rejecting heresy, and you are oblivious to you own lack of True Faith, as you spiritual condition. You are the pot calling the kettle black, and it is you who is both the pot and the black.

You have it backwards. You are trusting in God by GOING TO GOD to be crucified. Otherwise you are leaning on your own understanding in thinking that a gift justifies you from condemnation.

All of your posts are twisted...you are relying on yourself and your own errors in understanding. You are proud and arrogant...with not a trace of humility or fear. So you will be rejected. God is looking for BOTH vessels of honour AND vessels of shame and dishonour. So you have chosen your destiny because of your ego.

You still need to go to God.

And a heretic HATES going to God. (or even the mention of having to go to God....so much for a relationship)

A basic logic shows that a person who thinks he doesn't need to go to God is in a make believe world that is trying to SHUT God out.

Instead these rely on their own understanding...thinking that to be "saved" means never having to say you're sorry...OR GO TO GOD.

A salvation of God avoidance.

that is what you are preaching here...a false gospel.