Except a man be born of WATER and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
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marksman
My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
Man, get off your inferiority complex horse, I'm just saying that what you are saying is just what Tong is saying.
I'm not stupid, marksman, nor jealous, like you marksman, nor a scared coward, marksman, like you are, marksman, who seems too afraid of me to address me in second person singular. It does not leave a good impression, outjie.
Don't praise yourself too highly, you're no <<blathering idiot>>; you're a blathering braggart.
Too much study not enough Jesus as always.
Mat_3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
HE did what was of necessity to show things to come.
Act 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
Act 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
see now HE reveals what so many are too blind to see.
Act 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
Act 11:17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
Not a drop of water anywhere,
Who would deny a man dying in the desert no water in site, the right to salvation just because christians "demand" he be baptized.
It's good that you don't believe as others do, that being baptized is getting born again.
You said "...repentance is getting rid of the old man and baptism is putting on the new man." Please cite the scriptures where your statement there is coming from. I know no scriptures that teaches that repentance is getting rid of the old man and that baptism is putting on the new man.
You also said "You can't put on the new until you have got rid of the old. Is that too hard for you to understand?" There is only an old man when there is a change to being a new man. So any discussion of scriptures pertaining to the old man and the new man could only have meaning to the Christian, because to the non-Christian, there is no change to a new man in the first place. Now regarding the Christian then, what is the old man but refers to his former sinful self, and what is the new man but refers to his new self that was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness, renewed in knowledge according to the image of God who created him? So the Christian, he is a new man. The old man he was, when spoken of, is taken only as a reference to what he formerly was, but not as though it is something that still exist that one can put on and off. Nay. For the old man had died when the new man was created by God.
Tong
R0779
Okay, if you don't want to answer the questions isr and instead make irrelevant comments, that's fine, if that suits you and is all that you can do.
Tong
R0780
I have dealt with my share of "educated idiots' who were told at graduation by a Professor that they actually knew something! Why is it, when you cannot win the argument, that you give us your educational resumé? No one who would teach someone Baptismal Regeneration (or the evasive dodge that does not admit Baptismal Regeneration, yet says that someone is not saved if they are not baptized)... is any spiritual "giant," but a Giant Heretic!
I am not anti-education nor anti-theology in the least! But it is a fallacy to believe that just because you went to a University, that you know the Bible and Christ better than someone who did not. Name-dropping (implying that "spiritual giants" taught you something, is the fallacy of an appeal to authority). It's great that you like certain teachers! It's awesome that you sought out a University or College to fill your thirst for knowledge and understanding! I believe that you are smart and want to believe the Bible to the best of your capability and knowledge! But allow me to make an observation from my experience...
I have met many people in my life. I have been many places around the world, and I have met many educated, and uneducated people. While I have learned a lot from some very intelligent teachers; I have learned even more from those who have no claim to "Higher Education" in the way of knowing God, loving Christ, and obeying Him to their utmost ability. My point is, knowledge is not knowing God; it is not spirituality. I know a lot more than many Christians that I have met, yet I am more challenged and humbled by their faith and practice than most of the educated "spiritual giants" I have known. Education and being right is much more than having a formal education. Personally, I can easily say that I learned far more in 4 years of military experience and travel than I have in my 3 1/2 years of University Education. Life can be a greater teacher for some people than a formal education. This may not be true for everybody, but it has been true for the majority of people I have met.
Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
The burden of proof of yours. Just determining in advance your own theology must be true is not sufficient grounds for assuming something that is not said.
But I'm not just relying on a single case in which non-Jews, and unsaved Gentiles, have done good. From the beginning God called upon men everywhere to do good. So you must assume they can do what God wants them to do. To say that the whole world was despicably evil, and only a small number of Jews did good under the Law is absurd. God had told the ancient Hebrews under the Law that they could do good under the Law. This suggests that all men can obey the voice of their conscience within them. And Paul confirmed this in Romans 2, where he argues that some Gentiles have verified their goodness by obeying their conscience.
Rom 2.14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)
You really have a ridiculous position, which is often what I hear as a bad interpretation of Paul, that all people are despicably wicked unless Christ is in them doing the good. This is an absurd position that fails to recognize what Paul is really saying. He is just saying that the gross wickedness of a holy nation, Israel, proves that the best of nations collapse into wickedness, arguing for the ubiquity of the sin nature in all nations, in every individual. It doesn't mean all of mankind are despicably wicked--only that they are all *capable* of it.
Paul's argument is simple. If despite the fact some goodness exists in mankind there remains a sin nature, they will be cast out of paradise, just as Adam and Eve were cast out of Eden over a single sin. Therefore, men require an atonement for their sin in order for their righteousness to hold up before God, and grant them eternal life.
All men are capable of great wickedness because the sin nature resides within them. The proof was that Israel, a holy nation, collapsed into grotesque wickedness, in which virtually the whole nation was caught up in that wickedness.
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Gen 6:5, And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
This did not only apply to mankind in Noah's day; but to all of mankind:
Gen 8:21, And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.
Jer 17:9, The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Romans 2 speaks of gentiles who do not have the law, but who do have faith in Jesus Christ. It is only through faith in Jesus Christ that anyone can do good, Romans 3:10-18.
1Co 1:18, For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
1Co 1:21, For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
The Cross declares that all of mankind is sinful; otherwise Jesus wouldn't have had to die for the sins of all men. See 2 Corinthians 5:14. All were dead in trespasses and sins, Ephesians 2:1.
The preaching of it is foolishness to those who perish; but "the foolishness of preaching" will also save those who can find it in their hearts to believe.
Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
No, this *indictment* applied only to those in Noah's day. The benefit applied to future generations. Two different points.
At this point you are unable to answer, but only to divert to claim your words are "spiritual" and mine are "foolishness." That isn't an answer, so I'll stop here.
You can choose to harden your heart if you wish.
It is clear that the indictment of sin is not only on the people of Noah's day but on all of mankind.
You would see that if you would take a closer look at the scriptures at hand.
It is clear that the indictment of sin is not only on the people of Noah's day but on all of mankind.
You would see that if you would take a closer look at the scriptures at hand.
No, I'm saying that my words are "the foolishness of preaching" and that this is why you deem them to be absurd.
Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
Sorry, you're advertising for yourself. There is nothing in this that is true, or genuine preaching. I don't know how you can claim anything you're saying is the word of God?
The word of God says that mankind can respond in righteousness to His word. But you say they cannot, and can only do despicably wicked things. That is not "preaching." That is not the "word of God!"
I reject what you say because it's wrong, and will not lead people to Christ. It will turn them off because frankly, it's not true, and it's rude.
Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
Your commentary on ch. 9 treats Gentiles who have received Christ, and fails to treat Gentiles who have not yet received Christ and still are viewed as righteous. In Rom 2, Paul refers to Gentiles who had not yet received Christ, but who lived by their conscience as if they already have faith in Christ. Your whole commentary is built upon a premise that is false, indicating that Gentiles cannot be righteous unless they are Christians, when Paul in Rom 2 clearly debunks that idea.
And your commentary on ch. 10 is equally false because it treats living by Grace as if we no longer live, as Christians, by "do's and don'ts." Obviously, we still live by do's and don'ts. We *do* accept Christ and we *don't* follow after our carnal nature.
Israel was rejected not because it followed the do's and don'ts of the Law, but rather, because they failed to follow it properly, in an inward way. If they had, they would've properly prepared themselves to receive eternal redemption and final atonement from Christ, for which the Law had been trying to prepare them. They just didn't follow the Law properly, and were covering themselves up with "appearance" works like "filthy rags."
I do not believe that anyone will receive the Holy Spirit unless one is water baptised first.
One can not be a heathen and then bingo your saved
.One has to be initiated first and then learn religion, most are only religious followers of a religion only having some sort of faith in Jesus but do not know him and that is why every Christian denomination has failed nowadays, because they have turned their backs on Jesus Christ because such do not truly know him. the proof is in the pudding, just look at the fail rate, they have failed the people, because they are preaching a religion and not Christ Jesus.
Your point being could have anyone just pop up out of the blue, from Budda, Islam ect and claim to be of Christ Jesus. I believe that one has to have a handle on the OT for a start to be truly born again.
Mat 3:11 yes ! so what no proof of not water baptised, such does not reject such at all.
Act 1:4 yes to be born again, the water baptism does not save you but it in hope of such will lead you to such, the Holy Spirit does Save. still no cookie rejecting the water baptism.
Act 1:5 yes they were in fact and all of them were water baptised, to claim that they themselves were not is absurd.
What is it of that that you are trying to make out ? if you read all of Act 11, Act 11:15 does not mean or prove that they were not water baptised at all, you will have to find somewhere in the Bible that it clearly says that X, Y or Z was not water baptised at all.
Act 11:16 that's true but so what, such does not change the context, no were in the Bible does it say water baptism is worthless.
Act 11:16 who believed it says, so such had faith in Jesus ! most likely water baptised and knowing the word, if they were not water baptised they followed the path of the religious as in such a way but have not been anointed. I think that such are only religious and may not be truly born again.
All Satanist will clearly reject the act of water baptism and that's a fact, just as it is so with the Holy Spirit but they will claim to be of God, Religious and all but tainting the word.
Why would one try to bastardise the water baptism, I would say such is an act of Satan, I have seen in my time people who grasped at Naming ceremony's but rejected water baptism in fear, getting in a huff with me as to water baptism and you know what each one of them have become atheist. they try and make out that water baptism is a nothing and elevate a bloody atheist Naming ceremony way on high
. no I see through it for what such is, blatant disrespect to God.No Christian would reject one a drink of water, let alone try to bastardise water baptism for a start.
Please give chapter and verse. Show how man can respond in righteousness (that isn't filthy rags) apart from faith; in God's word.
It is not wrong; and will lead people to Christ.
Romans 2 is speaking of Gentiles period. Since Gentiles who had not received Christ cannot do good (Romans 3:12), it leaves only Gentiles who had received Christ as being those that it is speaking of.
Yes, we walk according to the Spirit and not according to the flesh. We behave according to the fruit that we bear because of having the Spirit. And this has not to do with "do's and don'ts" but with living according to the Spirit.
Once we have accepted Christ, walking according to the fruit of the Spirit is something that flows. It is not something that we "do". It is a matter of who we now are as people and living according to our new nature, which is who we are in Christ. And if we live according to the Spirit, we will not walk according to the flesh (Galatians 5:16).
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Something to do with men denying the power of God and His right to save whom He will save. Nothing to do with what you believe but who God is.One can not be a heathen and then bingo your saved
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