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Featured Except a man be born of WATER and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by 07-07-07, Jun 21, 2020.

  1. 07-07-07

    07-07-07 Active Member

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    John 3
    [5] Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

    Since this is the prerequisite to enter into the Kingdom of God, I think it is very important to have a full understanding of it. While being born of the Spirit is pretty self explanatory, being born of "water" is less clear; that's why I put that word in all caps in the title: WATER. I say that it's less clear because I've heard many commentaries on it's meaning. Here are two.

    1. When were are born of a natural birth via our Mother's wombs, then we are born of WATER when her water breaks. However, that does not make any sense in the context that Jesus spoke. It's as strange as Nicodemus' response, "How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?"

    2. When we are baptized in water, then we are born of WATER. However, that would not be in proper context as water baptism is merely symbolic of what has already happened. The born-again experience. Your old man has been buried and a new man has come forth. So, water baptism could not be what Jesus was referring to.

    Therefore, we must dig deeper into the Scriptures to have a full understanding of what Jesus meant. I'll let the Scriptures speak.

    Ephesians 5
    [24] Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
    [25] Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
    [26] That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of WATER by the WORD,
    [27] That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

    How is the Church washed in WATER? By the Word of God. The Word of God is the WATER.

    1 Peter 1
    [22] Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
    [23] Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

    Being born again by what? By the Word of God.

    Therefore, as supported by Scripture, Jesus is saying that "Except a man be born of WATER [the Word of God] and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
     
  2. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Although, it can be said that being water-baptized in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth for the remission of sins is the fulfilling of the condition of a promise (Acts of the Apostles 2:38-39); and that promise appears to be regeneration by the Holy Ghost.
     
  3. DPMartin

    DPMartin Well-Known Member

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    its interesting you leave out the Lord's explanation to place yours:


    Joh 3:5  Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 
    Joh 3:6  That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 
    Joh 3:7  Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 
    Joh 3:8  The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. 
    Joh 3:9  Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? 
    Joh 3:10  Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? 
    Joh 3:11  Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. 
    Joh 3:12  If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? 
    Joh 3:13  And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 
    Joh 3:14  And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 
    Joh 3:15  That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 


    its not that complicated one must be born into the world receiving the life of Adam and Noah and to be in the Kingdom of Heaven one must be born of the Life that is from Heaven of God via Jesus. therefore as Jesus says only that which is of Heaven can be in Heaven. just as only that which is born of man can be a man in the world or born of a cat in the world to be a cat in the world, and one must be born of mankind first to be eligible to be born of the Spirit which is from Heaven.
     
  4. Getitright

    Getitright Active Member

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    Jesus was talking about water baptism. Your exegesis of Ephesians 5 isn't correct. The word isn't the word of God. The word that is translated word is the Greek word rhema. It means the spoken word. The word translated washing literally means a bath. According to this there was a spoken word that required a bath in water. What was this spoken word that required a bath in water? Jesus spoke these words.


    19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:1 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. (Matt. 28:1 KJV)

    Here we have a spoken word requiring a bath in water.

    That this is the correct understanding is verified by a couple hundred years of early church history. Irenaeus, was a disciple of Polycarp who was a disciple of the Apostle John

    Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Book 1, chapter 21.

    Chapter 21. — The views of redemption entertained by these heretics.
    1. It happens that their tradition respecting redemption is invisible and incomprehensible, as being the mother of things which are incomprehensible and invisible; and on this account, since it is fluctuating, it is impossible simply and all at once to make known its nature, for every one of them hands it down just as his own inclination prompts. Thus there are as many schemes of “redemption” as there are teachers of these mystical opinions. And when we come to refute them, we shall show in its fitting-place, that this class of men have been instigated by Satan to a denial of that baptism which is regeneration to God, and thus to a renunciation of the whole [Christian] faith.


    Early Church Fathers - – Ante-Nicene Fathers: The Writings of the Fathers Down To A.D. 325.
     
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  5. Anthony D'Arienzo

    Anthony D'Arienzo Well-Known Member

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    completely wrong
     
  6. Getitright

    Getitright Active Member

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    No it's not.
     
  7. Anthony D'Arienzo

    Anthony D'Arienzo Well-Known Member

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    1] Christian baptism did not exist yet.

    2] Eph5 was not written yet.

    3] Nicodemus was Jewish

    4] He knew two references that were being spoken of;
    the water of separation, the water of ezk 36.

    Numbers 19 King James Version (KJV)
    19 And the Lord spake unto Moses and unto Aaron, saying,

    2 This is the ordinance of the law which the Lord hath commanded, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring thee a red heifer without spot, wherein is no blemish, and upon which never came yoke:

    3 And ye shall give her unto Eleazar the priest, that he may bring her forth without the camp, and one shall slay her before his face:

    4 And Eleazar the priest shall take of her blood with his finger, and sprinkle of her blood directly before the tabernacle of the congregation seven times:

    5 And one shall burn the heifer in his sight; her skin, and her flesh, and her blood, with her dung, shall he burn:

    6 And the priest shall take cedar wood, and hyssop, and scarlet, and cast it into the midst of the burning of the heifer.

    7 Then the priest shall wash his clothes, and he shall bathe his flesh in water, and afterward he shall come into the camp, and the priest shall be unclean until the even.

    8 And he that burneth her shall wash his clothes in water, and bathe his flesh in water, and shall be unclean until the even.

    9 And a man that is clean shall gather up the ashes of the heifer, and lay them up without the camp in a clean place,
    and it shall be kept for the congregation of the children of Israel for a water of separation: it is a purification for sin.

    10 And he that gathereth the ashes of the heifer shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the even: and it shall be unto the children of Israel, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among them, for a statute for ever.

    11 He that toucheth the dead body of any man shall be unclean seven days.

    12 He shall purify himself with it on the third day, and on the seventh day he shall be clean: but if he purify not himself the third day, then the seventh day he shall not be clean.

    13 Whosoever toucheth the dead body of any man that is dead, and purifieth not himself, defileth the tabernacle of the Lord; and that soul shall be cut off from Israel: because the water of separation was not sprinkled upon him, he shall be unclean; his uncleanness is yet upon him.

    14 This is the law, when a man dieth in a tent: all that come into the tent, and all that is in the tent, shall be unclean seven days.

    15 And every open vessel, which hath no covering bound upon it, is unclean.

    16 And whosoever toucheth one that is slain with a sword in the open fields, or a dead body, or a bone of a man, or a grave, shall be unclean seven days.

    17 And for an unclean person they shall take of the ashes of the burnt heifer of purification for sin, and running water shall be put thereto in a vessel:

    18 And a clean person shall take hyssop, and dip it in the water, and sprinkle it upon the tent, and upon all the vessels, and upon the persons that were there, and upon him that touched a bone, or one slain, or one dead, or a grave:

    19 And the clean person shall sprinkle upon the unclean on the third day, and on the seventh day: and on the seventh day he shall purify himself, and wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and shall be clean at even.

    20 But the man that shall be unclean, and shall not purify himself, that soul shall be cut off from among the congregation, because he hath defiled the sanctuary of the Lord: the water of separation hath not been sprinkled upon him; he is unclean.

    21 And it shall be a perpetual statute unto them, that he that sprinkleth the water of separation shall wash his clothes; and he that toucheth the water of separation shall be unclean until even.

    22 And whatsoever the unclean person toucheth shall be unclean; and the soul that toucheth it shall be unclean until even.

    ezk36
    25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

    26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

    27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
     
  8. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    This is the correct and biblically consistent interpretation. The Water of the Word is also called "the Gospel" and "the Word of God".
     
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  9. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    No He was not. Water baptism CONFIRMS that someone has already been born of water and of the Spirit.
     
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  10. historyb

    historyb Well-Known Member

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    Well spoken!
     
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  11. Randy Kluth

    Randy Kluth Active Member

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    Very insightful, I think. I could be wrong, but I agree with you.
     
  12. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    AMEN

    Your post is confirmed by <<the prerequisite to enter into the Kingdom of God>>, being a single condition, not two, that one must be born of Water-AND-of (The) Spirit. If the one happened, the other happened or neither happened! On the ground, everyone who has been baptised is not born again and everyone who is born again is not baptised; but everyone "born of Water-AND-of (The) Spirit" is born again and saved irretrievable.

    Therefore, as supported by Scripture, Jesus is saying that "Except a man be born of WATER" : the Water-of-LIFE Jesus Christ - "and of the Spirit" - for with the Father GOD IS ONE, "he cannot enter into the kingdom of God".
    The <prerequisite> divine miracle for and of the New Birth, is GOD - Divinity - in Full Fellowship of Father, Son and Holy Spirit: "I AM COME that they might have life more abundantly" as Life "in the Kingdom of God". John 10:10.
     
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  13. mailmandan

    mailmandan Well-Known Member

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    In regards to the word "water" in John 3:5, there are those who would argue that the natural sense of the passage parallels water with being born out of a mother’s womb and with flesh. Simply stated in that case, two births are necessary. The first is a physical, literal, "flesh" birth (which is, of course, accompanied by amniotic "water") and the second is Spirit.

    There are also those who would argue that Jesus mentions "living water" in John 4:10, 14; 7:37-39 and in John 7:38-39, we read - "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. But this He spoke concerning the Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the source of living water and spiritual cleansing. If "water" is defined as baptism, then we could just as justifiably say, "Out of his heart will flow rivers of living baptism" in John 7:38. If this sounds ridiculous, it is no more so than the idea that water baptism is the source or the means of becoming born again. So to automatically read "baptism" into John 3:5 simply because it mentions "water" is unwarranted.

    Yet there are still others who would argue that "water" is used in the Bible as an emblem of the Word of God, and in such uses it is associated with cleansing or washing. (John 15:3; Ephesians 5:26) When we are born again, the Holy Spirit begets new life and we are said to become "partakers of the divine nature" (2 Peter 1:4). The new birth is brought to pass through "incorruptible seed, by the Word of God, which lives and abides forever" (I Peter 1:23) and the Holy Spirit accomplishes the washing of regeneration. (Titus 3:5)
     
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  14. Waiting on him

    Waiting on him Well-Known Member

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    Matthew 3:11 KJV
    I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

    Does this mean that Jesus is going to pour lava on me?
     
  15. Randy Kluth

    Randy Kluth Active Member

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    I'm not really clear about what you're saying here, except there are different views. Yes, baptism doesn't fit the mold. But in my view, using the word "water" does fit the OT concept of using water as a cleansing principle, and the word of God therefore did and does clean. So we must be born of a new nature through the cleansing of God's word and through the Holy Spirit.
     
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  16. mailmandan

    mailmandan Well-Known Member

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    I was simply pointing out the various interpretations made by various people for "water" in John 3:5. I certainly see "water" used as a cleansing principle/washing of regeneration accomplished through the cleansing of God's word and through the Holy Spirit at the moment of conversion/becoming born again.
     
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  17. Getitright

    Getitright Active Member

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    As I said, it's not wrong. It's clear in the Scriptures and there are several hundred years of Church history that show the same thing. Those who were taught by the apostles believed that water baptism was the means of new life.
     
  18. Getitright

    Getitright Active Member

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    That may have been what you were told, but it's not what the Scriptures teach.
     
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  19. Getitright

    Getitright Active Member

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    What does it mean to be baptized with fire? Remember, John was talking to unbelieving Jews
     
  20. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    No. That is not what I have been told. It is right there in the Bible.
     
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