Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
Cornelius was mentioned in Acts. I have no idea what the name of the Centurion was. Two different people. Cornelius was not Saved, and had earned respect from the Jews. God obviously had taken note, as well.
Except a man be born of WATER and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
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Cornelius was mentioned in Acts. I have no idea what the name of the Centurion was. Two different people. Cornelius was not Saved, and had earned respect from the Jews. God obviously had taken note, as well.
marksman
My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
Ou slimme, ja, water means and water is water. But you did not know, old wise man, that while you quoted John 3:5, you haven't R.E.A.D it. Too lazy? No. Too dense? NO no! Too clever? YES! But do not dare to show just how clever you are because that might show the TRUTH of John 3:5.
Look at what I said, "the TRUTH of John 3:5".
Is John 3:5 the truth? Yes AND no. John 3:5 IS not Jesus Christ The Word of God who said "I AM The Truth". John 3:5 cannot speak for itself and say what Jesus said, BUT speaks "OF TRUTH" -- "OF" Jesus Christ The Truth the word "water" speaks "OF".
IT IS WRITTEN, "Everything became OF water". IS everything water therefore? No, everything that was made, was made by the WORD of God. The word "water" is not water but speaks of things made "OF Water" the Word of God.
Just like we speak of the Truth of John 3:5, exactly so do we speak of the "Water" mentioned in the verse, it is not <<baptised / immersed in / sprinkled with water>>; it is SPIRITUALLY / metaphorically / figuratively ONE: BY THE ALMIGHTY condescending CREATOR SAVIOUR IN, BY AND THROUGH The Word his only begotten Son AND the Holy Spirit of GOD IN FULL FELLOWSHIP OF THE TRINITY, The Only Power giving or taking Life Eternal.
American Baptists, your Calvinism is a hoax for as long as you will be Baptists in water, and so the Presbyterians, your Grace Only is a hoax for as long as you will be Baptisers with water.
marksman
My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
marksman
My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
1Corinthians 13:12 Clearly we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
So is that a yes or no answer to my question in post #209? Do you believe that that thief may have previously been converted, was water baptized, and the fruit of that is being crucified as a thief, along with blaspheming, mocking and shaking his head at Jesus while hanging on the cross?
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mailmandan
Well-Known Member
In regards to the word "water" in John 3:5, there are those who would argue that the natural sense of the passage parallels water with being born out of a mother’s womb and with flesh. Simply stated in that case, two births are necessary. The first is a physical, literal, "flesh" birth (which is, of course, accompanied by amniotic "water") and the second is Spirit.
There are also those who would argue that Jesus mentions "living water" in John 4:10, 14; 7:37-39 and in John 7:38-39, we read - "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. But this He spoke concerning the Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the source of living water and spiritual cleansing. If "water" is defined as baptism, then we could just as justifiably say, "Out of his heart will flow rivers of living baptism" in John 7:38. If this sounds ridiculous, it is no more so than the idea that water baptism is the source or the means of becoming born again. So to automatically read "baptism" into John 3:5 simply because it mentions "water" is unwarranted.
Yet there are still others who would argue that "water" is used in the Bible as an emblem of the Word of God, and in such uses it is associated with cleansing or washing. (John 15:3; Ephesians 5:26) When we are born again, the Holy Spirit begets new life and we are said to become "partakers of the divine nature" (2 Peter 1:4). The new birth is brought to pass through "incorruptible seed, by the Word of God, which lives and abides forever" (I Peter 1:23) and the Holy Spirit accomplishes the washing of regeneration. (Titus 3:5)
There are also those who would argue that Jesus mentions "living water" in John 4:10, 14; 7:37-39 and in John 7:38-39, we read - "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. But this He spoke concerning the Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the source of living water and spiritual cleansing. If "water" is defined as baptism, then we could just as justifiably say, "Out of his heart will flow rivers of living baptism" in John 7:38. If this sounds ridiculous, it is no more so than the idea that water baptism is the source or the means of becoming born again. So to automatically read "baptism" into John 3:5 simply because it mentions "water" is unwarranted.
Yet there are still others who would argue that "water" is used in the Bible as an emblem of the Word of God, and in such uses it is associated with cleansing or washing. (John 15:3; Ephesians 5:26) When we are born again, the Holy Spirit begets new life and we are said to become "partakers of the divine nature" (2 Peter 1:4). The new birth is brought to pass through "incorruptible seed, by the Word of God, which lives and abides forever" (I Peter 1:23) and the Holy Spirit accomplishes the washing of regeneration. (Titus 3:5)
That word used for "water" is used 64 times in the N.T.
Let's take a look if it is translated "word of God"...
Matthew 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water[G5204]: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
G5204
ὕδωρ / ὕδατος
hudōr / hudatos
Thayer Definition:
1) water
1a) of water in rivers, in fountains, in pools
1b) of the water of the deluge
1c) of water in any of the earth’s repositories
1d) of water as the primary element, out of and through which the world that was before the deluge, arose and was compacted
1e) of the waves of the sea
1f) fig. used of many peoples
Let's look at another verse...
Acts 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water[G5204]: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
G5204
ὕδωρ / ὕδατος
hudōr / hudatos
Thayer Definition:
1) water
1a) of water in rivers, in fountains, in pools
1b) of the water of the deluge
1c) of water in any of the earth’s repositories
1d) of water as the primary element, out of and through which the world that was before the deluge, arose and was compacted
1e) of the waves of the sea
1f) fig. used of many peoples
This would seem to indicate that this word used for water really means water.
God Bless!
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Rocky Wiley
Active Member
Baptism is to wash away all your sins of the past. This is to keep them from following after you to judgment.
I'm sorry, but water really means water...
"He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water."
I'm sorry, but water really means water... Does "water" literally mean "water"? It sounds horrifying!
"For My people have committed two evils: They have forsaken Me, The fountain of living waters, To hew for themselves cisterns, Broken cisterns That can hold no water." Jeremiah 2:13.
I'm sorry, but water really means water... I am beginning to see the foundation for Water Worship I see here!
It fascinates me to see how so many people can dig a word out of a dictionary, ignore the Bible, and build an entire "theology" on their presumption of a single word!
That word "water" in John 3:5 is not that word robots show is 'water' a million times and is not <<used 64 times in the N.T.*>>, but is the phrase, 'eks hudatos' "OF / out of Water", not 'en hudati' like John the baptist baptised "in / with water" Matthew 3:11 John 1:26,31,33 Acts 11:16.
[* 79 times according to Youngs]
Let's take a look what it is if 'eks hudatos' is translated in the Word of God: 1) In OT times, of Jacob's well John 11:12; 2) In NT time, "the Water of Life .. of THIS water I shall give him .. water springing up into eternal life .. give me THIS water" John 4:11-15. 3) the eunuch's baptism of a visible, bodily, "coming up out of the water" of the mud-pool in the desert. Acts 9:36-39.
Not even Ephesians 5:26 has 'eks hudatos', but "washing of water (Genitive Article 'tou') IN BY THE WORD".
Nor even 1Peter 3:20 has 'eks hudatos', but "souls were saved THROUGH - dia - water in the days of Noah". But according to 2Peter 3:5,6, "the earth out of water (eks hudatos) created .. being overflowed with water (hudati)" like in water-baptism by immersion, "perished" and was not, saved!
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Fantastically exceedingly good post!
Thus it fascinates me, on the other hand, to see how people can fashion, figment, one general word out of Context, ignore the whole Bible, and build an entire "theology" on presumption all by themselves!
I can no longer, as I said in the past, live with water baptism in the Church, or I must be dishonest with Scripture and myself.
We know that Jesus said "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
Many, if not few, contend and insist that to be "born again" is to be baptized with water.
Can one be "born again" twice or thrice or even more?
Or
Can such rebirth spoken of by Jesus Christ be undone once done?
Tong
R0765
Many, if not few, contend and insist that to be "born again" is to be baptized with water.
Can one be "born again" twice or thrice or even more?
Or
Can such rebirth spoken of by Jesus Christ be undone once done?
Tong
R0765
When Jesus was baptised by John the Baptist we see that Jesus went out for 40 days and then took on the Devil. it was this that set him out on his mission to deal with this world.
John the Baptist said that he was not worthy giving of the Baptism of Holy Spirit, that was of Jesus Christ only.
One must be water baptised to receive the Holy Spirit, as that is it's intention, no one can receive the Holy Spirit who is not water baptised.
Satanist claim that Paul was not water baptised, but many many of the Jews were water baptised by John, even tho they all did not receive the Holy Spirit, but I am sure that Saul would of been one to of been water baptised by John and Saul got the message from God and became Paul.
You must be born of the Water baptism Jesus said so.
What is water baptism, well it was one taking it on yourself pre Christianity or one who was not brought up in the faith by family, but if one was born in a true Christian family you would of been water baptised as a baby because as such you are in the community of Christ Jesus, fact is that any worthy Christian would baptise their children in fact, so that's why one goes to Church with ones children, this is in the hope that they recive the Holy Spirit, that's the number one point of getting water baptised and going to Church.
One does not receive the Holy Spirit until one is truly born again.
One is water baptised first and then one learns from religious instruction, but the hope is for one to receive the Holy Spirit, now some receive X amount of gifts as to the Holy Spirit but that does not mean that they are truly born again, because they can fail as to the weeds of this world choking them, stunting their growth in Christ.
So one could say one is in regard to one born again of the water and one can be born again of the Holy Spirit, their is a trans stage from faith in Jesus = as Jesus says, oh you of little faith ? that's most believers by far and then their is they of faith that can move mountains = truly born again. it's they that are in the Kingdom of God = not of this world lead astray of worldly deceptions, they are sent out among the wolfs in this world.
Now we can see the being water baptised is not the key ingredient but it's the start of, like a marriage day somewhat, but such things are more than that day, because one works towards making a marriage work and so to does one as to a baptism, it's not just a one off day experience, your God mother and God father have set task to help one on the path to the Lord Jesus, just as your family does.
Now if the mother and dad just get the child baptised and claim that that's all they have to do. that's wrong. that's like sending a child off to school on the first day and then dismiss any regard to ones upbringing. or one sending children off to Church and not doing your duty as to them.
Not necessarily. Your doctrine depends on the concept that they are two different people. However, in light of your doctrine, believe that the holy scriptures substantiate the concept that the Centurion in Matthew 8:5-13 were one and the same person.
He was saved if he was the man in the gospel. And it is a good bet to say that he was in fact that man.
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