Salvation Through Baptism ???

[marksman]

True. We must take all verses that pertains to a particular doctrine and until we have exhausted what else does the Bible say, we have not found truth, that is comparing scripture with scripture.

But what if we come across a verse that IS NOT found elsewhere in the Bible, what
then? How will we be able to understand that verse, for instance, such as Daniel 12:13?

I surmise that most in here need to expound (without bias) "grace vs works" of Ephesians 2:8-9 to get truth concentrating only on these two verses.

To God Be The Glory

My experience is that whatever the subject matter is, you will always find supporting verses for it.

 

[marksman]

Oh, easy now sir. Don't fall into the old and cheap ad hominem path.

Tong
R0782

Best to find out what ad hominem means.

 

[JunChosen]

My experience is that whatever the subject matter is, you will always find supporting verses for it.

What a neutral/defensive answer. I can assure you that Daniel 12:13 can't be found any where else in the Bible. I know the answer but you don't!

Best to find out what ad hominem means.

I know what it means and yet English is my second language.

I hope you're not reading Scripture the way you are displaying yourself?

To God Be The Glory

 

[marksman]

What a neutral/defensive answer. I can assure you that Daniel 12:13 can't be found any where else in the Bible. I know the answer but you don't!
I know what it means and yet English is my second language.
I hope you're not reading Scripture the way you are displaying yourself?
To God Be The Glory

The first thing you have to do is sort out that doctrine you are dealing with so let me ask you, what is the doctrine in Daniels 12:13.

Best to find out what ad hominem means. In case you hand not noticed, it was addressed to Tong.

And I don't think that it gives God glory in your critical remark.

 

[Tong2020]

Best to find out what ad hominem means.

Are you now moving on and appealing to ignorance or lack of knowledge?

Tong
R0784

 

[Grailhunter]

So you are saying that God cannot save a person by faith, and He needs a man to save them by baptizing them?

A man marooned on an island by himself cannot be saved?

No he cannot, but difficult to test since he would never meet anyone and would die alone and he could never tell his story.
What Christ said is simple, no if's no and's or no but's.
Things do have to happen. Could anyone be saved if Christ did not come? There are things that have to happen and a sequence of events....While Christ walked his ministry no one could achieve salvation because salvation was not possible to its fullest extent until after the crucifixion.

Christ said, Believe and be baptized....the Book of Acts...shows the urgency to be baptized after becoming a believer. Stand against what Christ said?....He gave no exceptions to the rule and you have no authority to add to or take away His words and His explanation of the Way to salvation.

 

[Grailhunter]

True. We must take all verses that pertains to a particular doctrine and until we have exhausted what else does the Bible say, we have not found truth, that is comparing scripture with scripture.

But what if we come across a verse that IS NOT found elsewhere in the Bible, what
then? How will we be able to understand that verse, for instance, such as Daniel 12:13?

I surmise that most in here need to expound (without bias) "grace vs works" of Ephesians 2:8-9 to get truth concentrating only on these two verses.

To God Be The Glory

So am I to assume you think Daniel 12:13 is a mystery.
Choosing to believe in Christ is not works, baptism is not works, and communion is not works.
Sorry Christ but Christianity is too much work.....
What is faith....believing....believing....believing. And not believing in what Christ said?....it is just the work of choosing the thought that Christ is real. No change of life....just believe and you have a ticket to heaven....So sad the end will be so disappointing for you.

But there are works....the Greek word for deeds can be translated works or deeds....generally the word should only be translated to works if referring to the Mosaic Law. There is nothing in Christianity or what Christ told us to do that is works.

If you just believe and sit like a bump on a log.....your religion being a list of don't do's so you don't sin and look after yourself so you go to heaven, you missed the point of the entire Gospel and are of no service to Christ. Good deeds do not save you, they mean you understand Christ and the Gospels. It means that you are applying Christianity to your life. If parents would send their son to college to be a doctor and after graduating he decided not to be doctor but only look after his own health, that would be very disappointing. Christ died for you, how disappointed would Christ be in you if you did the same. What would be His judgment of you. Look at the story of the talent.....the end will not be good for you.

Christ died to save you, at least believe what He said and do what He said to be saved, then walk His walk....but to speak against Him and the Gospels would be the worst of all sins....

 

[Tong2020]

What scriptures clearly say is that we are saved by grace through faith, not through baptism.

Who dare say otherwise and go against scriptures?

The unbeliever asked "what must I do to be saved?"

Scriptures give this answer, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household."

Some here give the answer, "Believe and be baptized".

Questions:

1. If after believing, the man dies, is he saved?

2. If after believing, the man lives, is he saved, or will he have to be baptized to be saved?

What are your answers to the two questions?

Tong
R0786

 

[Grailhunter]

What scriptures clearly say is that we are saved by grace through faith, not through baptism.

Who dare say otherwise and go against scriptures?

The unbeliever asked "what must I do to be saved?"

Scriptures give this answer, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household."

Some here give the answer, "Believe and be baptized".

Questions:

1. If after believing, the man dies, is he saved?

2. If after believing, the man lives, is he saved, or will he have to be baptized to be saved?

What are your answers to the two questions?

Tong
R0786

What scriptures clearly say is that we are saved by grace through faith, not through baptism.
What the scriptures clearly say is that Christ said to believe and be baptized. You stand against the testament of Christ and are accursed by the scriptures.

 

[Grailhunter]

What scriptures clearly say is that we are saved by grace through faith, not through baptism.

Who dare say otherwise and go against scriptures?

The unbeliever asked "what must I do to be saved?"

Scriptures give this answer, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household."

Some here give the answer, "Believe and be baptized".

Questions:

1. If after believing, the man dies, is he saved?

2. If after believing, the man lives, is he saved, or will he have to be baptized to be saved?

What are your answers to the two questions?

Tong
R0786

Questions:

1. If after believing, the man dies, is he saved?

2. If after believing, the man lives, is he saved, or will he have to be baptized to be saved?

What are your answers to the two questions?

So silly....again Christ gave no if's, no and's, and no buts.
The failure in your thinking is that believing and faith means you do nothing but that. If you believe in Christ, if you have faith in Christ, you will do what He told you to do to be saved. Faith is more than sitting their thinking about it. Why do you think it was so urgent for those in the Bible to be baptized after believing?

 

[Tong2020]

The Questions are:

1. If after believing, the man dies, is he saved?

2. If after believing, the man lives, is he saved, or will he have to be baptized to be saved?

What are your answers to the two questions?

The true Christian knows the correct answer to those questions.

Tong
R0787

 

[Grailhunter]

The Questions are:

1. If after believing, the man dies, is he saved?

2. If after believing, the man lives, is he saved, or will he have to be baptized to be saved?

What are your answers to the two questions?

The true Christian can answer those with a straight and direct answer.

Tong
R0787

Ok I will dummy this down for you.
The answer is no. No if's, no and's and no but's.

Some people think that all judgment occurs the moment they believe....they forget about judgment day.

If a man sitting on a log decides he believes in Christ and dies immediately, he is not saved.

If a man sitting on a log decides he believes in Christ and 50 years later dies and was not baptized, he is not saved

If a serial killer in his teens believed and was baptized but then became a serial killer, he is not saved.

If Hitler at the end suddenly believed in Christ just before he was killed, he is not saved.

All of these people will appear before Christ at judgment and their fate will be decided by Him. But none of this changes what Christ and the Apostles said to do to be saved.

 

[Tong2020]

Baptism is not a work that one does. One cannot baptise themselves...

It is rather, a gift that one receives from God!

Can we be saved by Grace through faith if we refuse that Grace?

Peace be with you!

@Philip James

Hello Philip James!

Yes, baptism with water is performed by one to another. In baptism with the Holy Spirit, it is Jesus who baptizes the convert. In both instances, it is a work performed by the baptizer upon the person being baptized.

Yes, we can also look at baptism with the Holy Spirit as a gift, for this is freely administered by Jesus Christ, according to His will, and in His time, which could be before or after the baptism with water. However, I'd say that is not so with baptism with water, wherein such could only be administered by the baptizer according to the will of the other person.

You asked "Can we be saved by Grace through faith if we refuse that Grace?" Saved by grace does not mean saved by baptism with water.

What scriptures clearly say is that we are saved by grace through faith, not through water baptism or anything else for that matter.

The unbeliever asked "what must I do to be saved?"

Scriptures give this answer, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household."

Some here give the answer, "Believe and be baptized".

Questions:

1. If after believing, the man dies, is he saved?

2. If after believing, the man lives, is he saved, or will he have to be baptized to be saved?

What are your answers to the two questions?

Tong
R0788

 

[Candidus]

No he cannot, but difficult to test since he would never meet anyone and would die alone and he could never tell his story.
What Christ said is simple, no if's no and's or no but's.
Things do have to happen. Could anyone be saved if Christ did not come? There are things that have to happen and a sequence of events....While Christ walked his ministry no one could achieve salvation because salvation was not possible to its fullest extent until after the crucifixion.

Christ said, Believe and be baptized....the Book of Acts...shows the urgency to be baptized after becoming a believer. Stand against what Christ said?....He gave no exceptions to the rule and you have no authority to add to or take away His words and His explanation of the Way to salvation.

The example of the thief on the cross unravels such water worship, or such a weak god that cannot save by grace through faith as he promised.

 

[JunChosen]

So am I to assume you think Daniel 12:13 is a mystery.

No. It's just hidden. It is God's prerogative to conceal things.

Choosing to believe in Christ is not works,

The word "choose" is an active verb.

just believe and you have a ticket to heaven....So sad the end will be so disappointing for you.

The devil and demons also believe..

If you just believe and sit like a bump on a log.....your religion being a list of don't do's

That's correct! God said: "The day you eat from the knowledge of good and evil, you will surely die!"

Christ died to save you,

So now you are playing like God knowing who the saved are!

To God Be The Glory

 

[bbyrd009]

I can assure you that

oh jeez. i can assure you that he who says he knows, dont

Daniel 12:13 can't be found any where else in the Bible

hmm, sounds a lot like for all must come before the judgement seat to be judged for their works to me?

I know the answer but you don't!

that makes you hopeless imo, not smarter. Wadr. You know the "answer" to a passage that specifically states that Daniel did not know the answer to, and could not discover even by asking the horse's mouth? Would you pls just listen to yourself for a sec man? Have you been carried away by your own grandeur or what sir

 

[JunChosen]

The first thing you have to do is sort out that doctrine you are dealing with so let me ask you, what is the doctrine in Daniels 12:13.

It is for me to know and for you to find out.

Best to find out what ad hominem means. In case you hand not noticed, it was addressed to Tong.

Oops. I thought this was a forum.

To God Be The Glory

 

[JunChosen]

oh jeez. i can assure you that he who says he knows, dont

hmm, sounds a lot like for all must come before the judgement seat to be judged for their works to me?

that makes you hopeless imo, not smarter. Wadr.

We all have our own opinions, don't we?

To God Be The Glory

 

[bbyrd009]

We all have our own opinions, don't we?

To God Be The Glory

i only wish, Jun, wadr i would love to hear you speak an "opinion" for a change, while at the same time i understand why all the cock-sureness too ok. I mostly wish that i knew a better way to express that, without doing this fwiw

im currently getting a lot of instruction from what gets dropped in a quoted post,

You know the "answer" to a passage that specifically states that Daniel did not know the answer to, and could not discover even by asking the horse's mouth?

but you may certainly take the q rhetorically if you like ok

the hell of it is, you might actually have some valuable information to impart i guess, too. I mean prolly not, but maybe so. I say this bc Scripture tells us that you do not, as a general rule, even as you insist that you do. So if only everyone had an opinion, yes; ive scoured the board this morning looking for a single one...i think it was amadeus who saved us today

sorry if this is coming out bad ok, i am hardly a stranger to it myself

 

[Grailhunter]

No. It's just hidden. It is God's prerogative to conceal things.


The word "choose" is an active verb.



The devil and demons also believe..



That's correct! God said: "The day you eat from the knowledge of good and evil, you will surely die!"



So now you are playing like God knowing who the saved are!

To God Be The Glory

It all comes down to if you believe what Christ said. Or if you believe you have authority that over rides what Christ said. So for what I have seen of you is that you preach an alternate gospel so accursed you are.