How could the Messiah be sinless?

[DNB]

Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (KJV) - Blue Letter Bible
[Search domain www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?t=KJV&strongs=H5937] H5937 - `alaz - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (KJV)

Psa 96:12 - Let the field be joyful, H5937 and all that is therein: then shall all the trees of the wood rejoice.

You got me there!

 

[Renniks]

Why can't you understand it Rennik? You're unaware that 1 + 1 <> 3, you don't know that elephants cannot fly, nor can trees talk? You haven't got the sense to know absurdities when you hear them? I'm just asking?
You seem to be rather bold in stating that you can't comprehend the implausible, as though it sounds reverent and pious, and thus, you accept it as truth?
You are trying to glorify your ignorance, and inability to explain the conundrum that your exegesis forced you into. Is your lack of comprehension of what you assert, anything more than that?

Lol, if you have a God you can fully understand, you don't have the God of the Bible, that's for sure. I accept what the Bible teaches about the Trinity and I'm not bothered at all that I cannot fully comprehend how three can be eternally one. If a person starts trying to grasp the incarnation and finds no mystery in how God can be both fully man and fully God, well, he hasn't gone very deep in his worship. The mystery is part of the Glory of the Eternal Deity, that is and was and is to come.

 

[Renniks]

Why don't you have a problem with a pre-incarnate Christ? You said it yourself, that you don't understand anything that you are espousing? Why would you ask such a blatantly obvious question? Why are you trying to glorify such frivolity with God's Word?

Because I don't have a problem with the God of the Bible. Frivolity? What is frivolous about the mystery of the Glorious and incomprehensible Trinity?

 

[Renniks]

You are unaware of God's omniscience and sovereignty?

Yes, and I suppose you claim to fully understand those too.
The verse references time. It's not speaking in the abstract.

 

[Renniks]

Jesus was sinless because he was not born from the will of a man, because the lust from a man came from the works of devil on fleshy desire. All mankind was born into the world with the will of sexual penetration from a man. That's why Jesus was born from the words of God just like Adam, but the differences is Adam was married and Jesus had not married. And the spiritual awakeness of Jesus is natural because since he was a kid he already knew the words of God until he grown up as an adult.
In the day of Jesus walked the earth there are no such an entertainment like tv, cell phones, music, etc so Jesus had grown up in the faith of the righteous family of Nazareth. It's so 180 degree opposite with our lives today, since a kid we're not aware of the spiritual awakening so that when we see such a sins in tv, movie, or any other media we see it naturaly and not aware of what we had just saw is such a sins and it does records to our subsconcious memory. If everyday we see such kind of a sins in tv shows than someday it will affect our brain to do the same as what have been recorded on our memory. No wonder cartoon these days are so many "works of the devil", for instance the songs Baby Tooth Shark was refers to the tooth of Ifrit, super heroes was refers to the witches or mutant (baphomet), lion king was refers to arabian gods Al-lat, etc. This is the beginning of the brainwashing of the sins works in our daily lives. Because the works of the devil is a repeatable lies would be accepted as truth in such amount of time (just like the hitler false flag big lie propaganda).
If we do such a repeatable sins than someday devil will found a way to enters into our body to become a disease such as tumors, cancer, or any other disease. I found this fact from moslem writings about how did djinn/devil manifested our body into cancer or tumor. So, our world environment today is bloated with the influences of the darkness, as a Christian believer we have to renew our strategy to live in today's corrupted environment.

And then, there's always this guy, who just goes off on a rant and we are all left to wonder what in the world all this has to do with the topic at hand, or what he actually said... and if perhaps he should back away from the youtube conspiracy theory channel for just one day.

 

[OzSpen]

The Spirit of God is not a separate person, he is the personality of God, which means that everything that God is, is his spirit.
But a satisfying answer why the spirit is sometimes separated from the Father and also from the Son, I do not have.
But this is certainly due to the language of the Hebrews, for also a hebrew spoke as if his spirit was not himself.

janc,

You are promoting a non-Trinitarian God.

Oz

 

[Yan]

And then, there's always this guy, who just goes off on a rant and we are all left to wonder what in the world all this has to do with the topic at hand, or what he actually said... and if perhaps he should back away from the youtube conspiracy theory channel for just one day.

You can see how did Jesus had lived and how did we lived today, if the truthful Jesus was condemned by mankind so did we.
If Jesus was experiencing allegation and false propaganda from scribes & pharisee, so did we (John 15:18-27).

 

[OzSpen]

The Messiah who is the Son of God did not exist before his incarnation, but the Spirit who is in him already existed.
It could be that through the incarnation of the Spirit a separate person has come into being, so the Messiah is not the Father but they have the same "nature" because they have the same Spirit.

janc,

You are reading a different Bible to mine.

Read what Jesus said about His own pre-existence (John 3:13; 6:33, 38, 62; 8:23; 16:28).

Isn't it amazing that Christ existed before Abraham's birth (John 8:58–59)? However, Abraham’s birth preceded Jesus’ own birth by centuries! The NT teaches that Jesus was pre-existing with His Father (Romans 8:3; 1 John 1:2; Galatians 4:4), thus making him a separate Person to the Father. Several passages even identify Jesus as the Creator (John 1:2–3; Colossians 1:16–17; Hebrews 1:2).

What could John 17:5 possibly mean? 'And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed'. Jesus the Son was in the presence of the Father before the incarnation. That's Bible!

Col 1:16-17, 'For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together'. So, outside of time, Jesus the Son was the Creator of the universe, thus making his living before the creation. He holds everything together now.

Therefore, you are teaching false doctrine with your trumped up version of the pre-existence of God the Son.

Oz

 

[Phoneman777]

The Bible clearly says that every human will sin someday:

There is no human who does not sin. (1 Kings 8:46)

But then how could the Messiah be sinless?

I would say that the spirit in the Messiah was not a human spirit but the spirit of God. The Spirit of God in the flesh, therefore John 1:1 and 14. But then one asks oneself the question, did the incarnation of the Spirit create another person separated from the father? Should one think that God has begotten a real son? That God has begotten a real son sounds illogical to me, since this would then be a second God, but if the Messiah is the Father, one would have to ask oneself why the Bible constantly separates the Son from the Father.

Isn't it enough to just believe the Word of God?

"I have kept My Father's commandments." John 15:10 KJV
"...but (He)was in all points tempted like as [we are, yet] without sin." Hebrews 4:15 KJV
"...holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners..." Hebrews 7:26 KJV

 

[Phoneman777]

You will never learn anything will you? I already addressed this but it simply did not register.

Thanks...no need to lead one to water when the water's right in front of him.

 

[DNB]

Lol, if you have a God you can fully understand, you don't have the God of the Bible, that's for sure. I accept what the Bible teaches about the Trinity and I'm not bothered at all that I cannot fully comprehend how three can be eternally one. If a person starts trying to grasp the incarnation and finds no mystery in how God can be both fully man and fully God, well, he hasn't gone very deep in his worship. The mystery is part of the Glory of the Eternal Deity, that is and was and is to come.

My point is, if one cannot understand what they just concluded, it puts into question the accuracy of their exegesis. Especially, when the doctrine does not bring glory to God. We are created in God's image, we do understand His character and ontology to a large degree, that is why we are told to be like Him. But rather, it is the magnitude that is in question. We know that God is unquantifiable, indivisible, and unconfused, and yet the doctrine of the trinity defines the opposite.
I believe that your inability to comprehend your own exegesis, exposes the inaccuracy of your theology.

 

[friend of]

Right were created in God's image God image is Christ

 

[DNB]

Because I don't have a problem with the God of the Bible. Frivolity? What is frivolous about the mystery of the Glorious and incomprehensible Trinity?

It's frivolous to make implausible conclusions about God, then claim them to be doctrinal truth. You are equating oblivion and confusion, with transcendence and incorporeality. My point is, when your tenet defines redundancy in the Godhead, as in 3 omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient beings in one, when only 1 is necessary to create and maintain the universe, your 'mystery' is nothing more than confusion and idiocracy. When your idea of Atonement requires a god-man, as in God obeyed and raised Himself, then this incomprehensibility is nothing more than absurd and ridiculous.
Again, you're trying to glorify ignorance.

 

[DNB]

Yes, and I suppose you claim to fully understand those too.
The verse references time. It's not speaking in the abstract.

Well, I do, in regard to the historicity of the Bible. His foreknowledge and sovereign is evidenced throughout the history of man, and all the covenants that God decreed between Himself and man, equally induces the significance and practicality of these attributes.
Becoming man, and atoning for their sins in order to propitiate Himself, just does not elucidate or effectuate these attributes.
So, yes, I am claiming to be more informed than yourself, ....because you prefer to assert your ignorance. That is, I will not say that about myself in regard to my understanding of God and His covenants, Atonement and Messiah are concerned. I am quite prepared to explain it in full without appealing to confusion and mystery. (I'm not trying to sound proud here, just simple and straight forward)

 

[DNB]

Right were created in God's image God image is Christ

We are all created in God's image, have you not heard?

 

[janc]

Not sure if Romans 8:3 has been posted yet...

Romans 8:3
"For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh"

The key word is 'likeness'. Not actual sinful flesh.

I love this verse...

John 8:58
"Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am"

Jesus exists in the past and present at the same time. This is a very advanced concept that can be found in Quantum Physics.

I also say here that this refers to the nature of the Messiah, for his spirit has no beginning, but the Son of God did not exist before the incarnation.
Can a man say that he has existed for 5000-6000 years? Yes, he can, because he is an Adam, and the Adam has existed for so long.

 

[Enoch111]

I also say here that this refers to the nature of the Messiah, for his spirit has no beginning, but the Son of God did not exist before the incarnation.

How long are you going to keep beating this drum of FALSE DOCTRINE? If you think that this belief is clever, be advised that it is from the pit of Hell.

 

[Renniks]

It's frivolous to make implausible conclusions about God, then claim them to be doctrinal truth. You are equating oblivion and confusion, with transcendence and incorporeality. My point is, when your tenet defines redundancy in the Godhead, as in 3 omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient beings in one, when only 1 is necessary to create and maintain the universe, your 'mystery' is nothing more than confusion and idiocracy. When your idea of Atonement requires a god-man, as in God obeyed and raised Himself, then this incomprehensibility is nothing more than absurd and ridiculous.
Again, you're trying to glorify ignorance.

Well, since you are calling the Bible's teachings absurd and ridiculous, that's on you. There's been plenty of clear posts here about what the Bible actually teaches about the Trinity, but you refuse to see the truth. I am not confused about the Godhead, BTW. You can go on denying and feeling self-righteous that you are so much smarter than anyone in a couple of thousand years of Church history, or you can accept the glorious truth about who God really is.

 

[janc]

How long are you going to keep beating this drum of FALSE DOCTRINE? If you think that this belief is clever, be advised that it is from the pit of Hell.

How could the Messiah grow in wisdom and greatness before God if he has always existed?
Did he play dumb as a man?

 

[DNB]

How could the Messiah grow in wisdom and greatness before God if he has always existed?
Did he play dumb as a man?

You're wasting your time with this guy janc. After several posts he still hasn't been able to answer your initial question in the OP, and yet he continues to scream heresy, ...just like every heretic does. He hasn't a clue what he's talking about as is evidenced by first, his inability to listen and understand any of your questions, and two, to fundamentally prove his own position. Don't waste your time with him janc.