Christian Fiction, Sci fi,make believe...

[Angelina]

No one believes because of what they see.
They only believe when the Holy Spirit gives them a new heart.Ezk36:25-27.
Thousands saw Jesus,healings, and did not believe.

The verse you are quoting refers directly to the house of Israel, [please read in context] not post resurrection, non-believing gentiles. Of course they believed and why shouldn't they. The only people who came against the signs and wonders Jesus performed were the scribes, Pharisees and teachers of the Law.

 

[historyb]

You assume I go by scripture alone...well that would be incorrect...I have experienced it in my life. Prophesy (fulfilled), Angel visitation, healing, demons cast out...and I am not the only one...
Believe what you want....I seek Him for answers not the forum...unless I just want a discussion on something.

If I said something wrong I apologize it is the rare evangelical who doesn't go by Scripture alone. I suppose your going to tell me your not an evangelical . I wish our chosen Church affiliation would be under our avatars it would be much more help in knowing how to approach people at CF they do that and it makes it nice. Hope I haven't made you upset I am sorry.

 

[historyb]

Fyi,
If a person believes in additional revelation apart from scripture, they are not sola scriptura.

It depends believe me, spend enough time on forums and there will be a million definitions of Sola Scriptura and yours is only one, but people will fight and say their definition of Bible alone is right.

 

[historyb]

That is incorrect. While there are some symbols in Revelation, it is generally to be taken its plain literal sense. And if all those prophecies have been fulfilled, then it stands to reason that we would be in the New Heavens and the New Earth at this time. Since that is patently not the case, suggesting that the events in Revelation have ALREADY been fulfilled are false.

Events in Revelation chapters 6-22 are all in the future (other than the first five seals, which correspond to the Olivet Discourse). The 6th and 7th seal events and everything else that follows lies in the future (perhaps not too far away).

That is all you not me, I totally and absolutely disagree with you.

 

[historyb]

I agree, and it's probably part of the reason why there is a decline in Christianity in the west today, there's not enough Christians moving in the supernatural, we need Christians moving in the supernatural more, even if it's just the basics, otherwise people will go looking in other directions that aren't good.

As the missionary said there is not a lot of faith in the wet. We replaced it with rationalism.

So these signs, wonders and miracles are important even for Christians to experience, as it helps them to develop a solid strong faith in Jesus, that nobody can shake.

They have strengthen my faith and if these things did not happen I may have been long gone, why serve a God who doesn't do anything for his people

 

[Heart2Soul]

If I said something wrong I apologize it is the rare evangelical who doesn't go by Scripture alone. I suppose your going to tell me your not an evangelical . I wish our chosen Church affiliation would be under our avatars it would be much more help in knowing how to approach people at CF they do that and it makes it nice. Hope I haven't made you upset I am sorry.

I wasn't upset brother, I just wanted to clarify my position. I apologize if I sounded harsh....
I agree with you about denominations under our avatars but then I wish we didn't have denominations.
God Bless

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Angelina,

You will find that most believers who became believers during the times of Jesus and the Apostles, were shown some kind of sign or power from on high before they believed and with that, a personal testimony that comes from one who is saved.

No, that is not how people believe;
37 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:

38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?

39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,

40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

Not even Thomas [one of the 12] believed until he saw Jesus hands and feet. John 20:25.

But looks like you have missed what Jesus said;
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

How is a non believer supposed to accept the word of salvation without it's accompanying power from on high via the Holy Spirit?

Good question. Natural men cannot believe God or His word.The power of God enables an unsaved person to believe by giving them a new heart, The unseen supernatural work of the Spirit.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Josho said;

For much of the world, we need to prove to them that our God is a living powerful God. Even many Christians need these experiences, as some are unfortunately starting to doubt, turn their backs on Jesus and search in other places. So these signs, wonders and miracles are important even for Christians to experience, as it helps them to develop a solid strong faith in Jesus, that nobody can shake.

It shows the growing need that people need to see the "living Church, the Church that is awake and moving in the Holy Spirit" and not the "sleeping Church."

We cannot prove anything to unsaved persons;
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
So your suggestion is not correct.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

If the Holy Spirit speaks to me apart from scripture it is for my benefit and no one else's....if He speaks to me a Word to share it will line up with scripture.

Hello Hts,
I want you to clarify this.for me so I do not misunderstand.
As.posted,I do not think the Holy Spirit speaks to anyone apart from scripture,but rather scripture illuminated by the Spirit.

Are you speaking of an audible voice? one that could be recorded?

Are you speaking of a random thought that is unspoken?

If it is a thought,how do you know it is from the Holy Spirit?

We have a God given conscience . Are you suggesting that what is in your conscience is always the Holy Spirit, and not just well ordered thoughts from your own mind?
We do commune with God in prayer and He knows our thoughts before we even articulate them.
We a have vain or fleshly thoughts that we are commanded to mortify.
Are you able to always distinguish what thoughts are you and what thoughts you think are from God to.you?
If any thought comes from God Himself, as you say outside of scripture, how can you say it is not new revelation?
many times people use the "expression" the Lord "spoke" to me, but they are not mean8ng that literally, but are indicating a certain person came to their mind so they prayed for that person or offered that person scriptures to help them.
This happens daily as a normal.day for believers. is this what you are saying? I do not want to put words in your mouth, but i am trying to understand what you mean.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Hello Hts,
I want you to clarify this.for me so I do not misunderstand.
As.posted,I do not think the Holy Spirit speaks to anyone apart from scripture,but rather scripture illuminated by the Spirit.

Are you speaking of an audible voice? one that could be recorded?

Are you speaking of a random thought that is unspoken?

If it is a thought,how do you know it is from the Holy Spirit?

We have a God given conscience . Are you suggesting that what is in your conscience is always the Holy Spirit, and not just well ordered thoughts from your own mind?
We do commune with God in prayer and He knows our thoughts before we even articulate them.
We a have vain or fleshly thoughts that we are commanded to mortify.
Are you able to always distinguish what thoughts are you and what thoughts you think are from God to.you?
If any thought comes from God Himself, as you say outside of scripture, how can you say it is not new revelation?
many times people use the "expression" the Lord "spoke" to me, but they are not mean8ng that literally, but are indicating a certain person came to their mind so they prayed for that person or offered that person scriptures to help them.
This happens daily as a normal.day for believers. is this what you are saying? I do not want to put words in your mouth, but i am trying to understand what you mean.

1. On the way home on a Friday, He spoke to me saying I want you to move to Tulsa. I didn't even like Tulsa and said if you really want me to move then you have to pay the way because I can't afford it. Monday my boss called me into the office and asked if I would move to Tulsa...the company would pay all expenses. Since I was already told by the Holy Spirit then I knew it was His Will so I accepted.
2. I was fired by a manager (on a Friday) and I prayed and He said read Psalm 109...never read much of Psalms and especially that one...after reading I said please don't put his family out on the street...He said come Monday he will be fired and you will take his place. Monday I came in and the owners were there and we all sat in a meeting and he got fired and I took his place.

I could go on and on but the circumstances of the two I just gave were extraordinarily against me yet God gave me favor over the others.
This is the last testimony I will share with you because this is very sacred to me and I don't want to defend my experience against a non-believer.
The other questions have already been answered.

 

[amadeus]

If I said something wrong I apologize it is the rare evangelical who doesn't go by Scripture alone. I suppose your going to tell me your not an evangelical . I wish our chosen Church affiliation would be under our avatars it would be much more help in knowing how to approach people at CF they do that and it makes it nice. Hope I haven't made you upset I am sorry.

It would be, as I see it, a rare person who really goes by "Scripture alone", even though may say that they do. They also go by their own head, their own logic and hopefully, sometimes at least, the leading of Holy Spirit. [Ideally should not we always be led by the Holy Spirit?]. That they do not is apparent to me [to anyone else?] by those who seem to be familiar with the Bible but hold sometime diametrically opposite beliefs about God and the Way of God.

As to posting the "chosen church affiliation" of each member, that would be difficult for some like myself who have no such affiliation... unless you want to count my affiliation with this forum as one of its members. Even people who do have a more clearly defined affiliation with a group are not always clearly bound by the essential doctrines or beliefs of that group.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Josho said;

We cannot prove anything to unsaved persons;
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
So your suggestion is not correct.

I really don't understand your use of this scripture to back your statement....hundreds of unsaved people are saved daily because they heard the Gospel of Salvation and believed...therefore they received it and accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior...and their mind was still carnal at the time...
Romans 8
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[historyb]

As to posting the "chosen church affiliation" of each member, that would be difficult for some like myself who have no such affiliation... unless you want to count my affiliation with this forum as one of its members. Even people who do have a more clearly defined affiliation with a group are not always clearly bound by the essential doctrines or beliefs of that group.

Not really. You would pick non denominational. Without such a system it will continue creating animosity and hard feelings. It doesn't mean anyone is bound it is easier to approach a person when you can see where they com from. Not have something like that is bad and cause for misunderstanding.

-------------

Before anyone says anything there is no such animal as a plain Christian. I was viciously attacked when I first came here because I wasn't evangelical, non denominational or whatever silliness and it would have been nice to know where people stood, it is quite the trap to just have Christian when it is not true.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Heart2Soul,

This is the last testimony I will share with you because this is very sacred to me and I don't want to defend my experience against a non-believer.

I understand what you mean. Thanks for clarifying a little bit.
You suggesting it as a defense against a "non-believer" is unfortunate.
I do not believe in censorship however , and do not have thin skin, so I would rather a person be honest, and then we can help correct where they have gone off.

The other questions have already been answered.

Not really. You did answer a bit, but never addressed these questions, because it will get down to it.

I really don't understand your use of this scripture to back your statement....hundreds of unsaved people are saved daily because they heard the Gospel of Salvation and believed...therefore they received it and accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior...and their mind was still carnal at the time...


7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Well, how do you understand Romans 8:7?
How do you understand it in relation to the fall?

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

The verse you are quoting refers directly to the house of Israel, [please read in context] not post resurrection, non-believing gentiles. Of course they believed and why shouldn't they. The only people who came against the signs and wonders Jesus performed were the scribes, Pharisees and teachers of the Law.

The verses I quoted apply to all mankind. The dispensational idea does not matter.

 

[amadeus]

Not really. You would pick non denominational. Without such a system it will continue creating animosity and hard feelings. It doesn't mean anyone is bound it is easier to approach a person when you can see where they com from. Not have something like that is bad and cause for misunderstanding.

Animosity and hard feelings will continue without regard to any designation or the lack thereof. It is the nature of the beast that man is.

"I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts." Ecc 3:18

Everyone thinks he is right and few of those will admit to the possibility that he is wrong.

"Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts." Prov 21:2

Jesus, the Truth, came to planet Earth as a man and even toward Him there was animosity and hard feelings. Are any of us here doing things than Jesus did ?

Before anyone says anything there is no such animal as a plain Christian. I was viciously attacked when I first came here because I wasn't evangelical, non denominational or whatever silliness and it would have been nice to know where people stood, it is quite the trap to just have Christian when it is not true.

How many have you met anyone here on this forum who have not been unreasonably attacked because of what he did or did not believe? Ask others and I suspect you will find few, if any, without a similar story. And this is a better forum... perhaps even the best of available Christian forums. Is the persecution it unfair? Perhaps consider what they did to Jesus. Did he deserve at any time to be persecuted, tortured and crucified? Less I would say than any one of us here.

"Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake." Matt 5:10-11

"Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also." John 15:20

 

[historyb]

How many have you met anyone here on this forum who have not been unreasonably attacked because of what he did or did not believe?

Me and other Traditional Christians

And this is a better forum... perhaps even the best of available Christian forums.

No, it's not. It can be but there must be changes but it appears the owner will not do it. When non orthodox are not allowed to put things in Christian forums, when there is a place to go for like minded Christians, when there is an indication what a person is under their avatar then it will become a better forum

 

[amadeus]

@Hisman

Amadeus said:
How many have you met anyone here on this forum who have not been unreasonably attacked because of what he did or did not believe?

historyb said:
Me and other Traditional Christians

Whatever that means...? The Catholics, the Mormons, the JWs, the Oneness Jesus Only, the tongue talkers, the non-tongue talkers, the various Baptists, the trinitarians... All of those and more I have seen under personal attack without good cause although often the attackers might deny it... Don't suppose that you and those who believe as you do are all alone when it comes to being attacked. Lots of others too... Unfortunately places [forums] where there is little or no disagreement are likely to be dull and dying. Disagreement among men is likely to lead to personal attacks. It should not, but until we are overcomers as Jesus was an overcome, our beast still wants to lift up his nasty head at every opportunity.

Amadeus said:
And this is a better forum... perhaps even the best of available Christian forums.

historyb said:
No, it's not. It can be but there must be changes but it appears the owner will not do it. When non orthodox are not allowed to put things in Christian forums, when there is a place to go for like minded Christians, when there is an indication what a person is under their avatar then it will become a better forum

My friend I am very definitely non-orthodox according to one definition of the term. As to places for like mind Christians to go, they exist and some people do go to them and whether they be designated as Christian Internet forums or they are groups of people in buildings naming themselves as Christians, it is not unusual for them to be dead. What they are and what they are not is why I spend as much time here as I do. Of course that is my opinion. Yours is apparently different.

 

[Angelina]

The verses I quoted apply to all mankind. The dispensational idea does not matter.

Yet you believe that the gifts of the Spirit died out with the Apostles?

 

[historyb]

Whatever that means..

It means Catholics, Orthodox, Anglicans, Lutherans that don't follow whatever they think the Bible says. Traditional Christians unlike modern Christians don't poopoo all over Church history because they have a Bible. Traditional Christians understand and have a place for Church fathers, for the Eucharist, Saints, and all the other things that modern Christians jettison.