Salvation Through Baptism ???

[Mr C]

And He did it with His Blood, not water baptism.

While Jesus was walking on earth His blood had not yet been shed.


Mt 9:2 And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee.
Mt 9:5 For whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and walk?
Mr 2:5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.
Mr 2:9 Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk?
Lu 5:23 Whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Rise up and walk?

 

[Tong2020]

So were those in (Acts 2:38,47 ; 8:5,12,13,26-40 ; 16:15,30-34 ; 22;16)

So were the Ephesians in (Acts 19:1-6).

So were the Corinthians in (Acts 18:8)

For it is by grace that we are saved through faith.

Tong
R0793

 

[Tong2020]

That is not the point.

They only received their blessing after DOING ALL THE LORD COMMANDED (Gen.6:8,22)(2Kings 5)(Rom.6:3-18)(Mark 16:16)(1Peter 3:20,21) (Col.2:11,12) (Heb.10:22) (Mt.28:18-20).

That is the point.

Well, my point is that the salvation regarding Noah, Naaman, the Ephesians, in scriptures, were not the same salvation. That is important to point out when one make references to them on the subject of salvation. And the topic under this thread is if salvation, that is, from sin and hell, is through baptism.

Tong
R0794

 

[JunChosen]

Eastern Orthodoxy, Oriental Orthodoxy, Lutheranism, Methodist and the Anglican/Episcopalians teach baptismal regeneration. There are many other local churches that teach it. It has been taught for 2,000 years. When did your teaching begin? (hint: about 500 years ago)

Many people do NOT know how to read Scripture because they are not guided by the Holy Spirit! They read and critique the Bible like it is an ordinary book instead of a Holy and Spiritual Book.

When did your teaching begin? (hint: about 500 years ago)

After I became saved when I started to read the Bible and by the teaching of the greatest Teacher, the Holy Spirit and BTW, if you didn't know it already the Bible was written 2000 years ago.

1 Peter 3:21 and Acts 22:16 specifically say baptism saves and washes away sin

Are you trying to entrap me again? How many times do I have to say water baptism has no spiritual value?

"Arise, and be baptized, and wash away your sins" is a principle, that is in order to become saved a person must have his sins washed. Can you wash your sins away? "Calling on the name of the Lord" ...I repeat... "calling on the name of the Lord" to wash your sins!!!

Water baptism is a ritual and is a "work" that man performs and therefore, contrary to Ephesian 2:9.

Not by works of righteousness which we have done (Eph. 2:9), but according to his mercy he saved us BY THE WASHING OF REGENERATION, and renewing of the Holy Spirit. Titus 3:5

Bold and underlined words are for emphasis.

To God Be The Glory

 

[JunChosen]

In Bulgaria they answer YES and NO by shaking their head opposite of the way we do in the USA.

If an American went to Bulgaria he might say they had it wrong.

I had the same exact experience when I was in Sri Lanka

 

[Tong2020]

It may astound you to learn the word Believe can be translated as OBEY.


A Reply To A Denominational Preacher

A Reply to a Denominational Preacher

(excerpt)

Christianity is a system of faith, and in that arrangement the individual who is converted to Christ undergoes that change by his personal belief. God's scheme of human redemption makes salvation contingent upon one's response to His plan.

22

There are a number of words in the New Testament which belong to the same family and are translated faith or belief. It would help tremendously in the understanding of the subject to examine and define these words and observe how they are used in these passages of the word of God. The root word for faith is peitho, and it means "to persuade, or to be persuaded; to confide in, trust." This word is used 55 times in the New Testament. Here are some of the uses: (1) Trust. "He trusted in God" (Matthew 27:43). This is our word for faith. (2) Persuade. "... and am persuaded of the Lord Jesus" (Romans 14:14). (3)Confidence. "We have confidence in the Lord" (II Thessalonians 3:4). (4) Obey. Some seven times this word is translated obey. "As many as obeyed him ..." (Acts 5:36). "Obey them that have the rule over you" (Hebrews 13:17). "That they should not obey the truth" (Galatians 3:1; Romans 2:8; Galatians 5:7; Acts 5:37; James 3:3).

The word obey in these passages is from peitho, the root word for faith. "As many as obeyed him ... as many as were convinced and persuaded by him." The word pistis is a cognate (that is, related by birth; belonging to the same family of words) of peitho, used 244 times in the New Testament, and following is the definition of this word faith by the standard, reputable scholars of the New Testament language.

How the Lexicons Define Faith
Pistis (faith): "Used especially of the faith by which a man embraces Jesus, i.e., a conviction full of joyful trust, that Jesus is the Messiah, the divinely appointed Author of eternal salvation in the kingdom of God, conjoined with obedience to Christ. In faith to give one's self up to" (-Henry William Thayer).

Peitho involves obedience. To obey God, is properly the result of God's persuasion (peitho). But faith (pistis) is different from obedience.

Tong
R0795

 

[Tong2020]

We agree.

Did the preachers in (Acts 8) teach water baptism as a part of the gospel which saves?

YES / NO

While it could be that water baptism may well be taught by the apostles, water baptism is not the gospel that the apostles preached. Rather, it is Jesus Christ that the apostles preached.

Acts 8:5 Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria and preached Christ to them.

Acts 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning at this Scripture, preached Jesus to him.

Tong
R0796

 

[Tong2020]

While Jesus was walking on earth His blood had not yet been shed.


Mt 9:2 And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee.
Mt 9:5 For whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and walk?
Mr 2:5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.
Mr 2:9 Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk?
Lu 5:23 Whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Rise up and walk?

Jesus, even from the foundation of the world, in God's perspective, had shed His blood (Rev.13:8). What happened about 2000 years ago at the cross, in no way, shape or form, affect that matter regarding God. Why Jesus can forgive sins even before the cross testifies to that.

Tong
R0797

 

[Mr C]

Jesus, even from the foundation of the world, in God's perspective, had shed His blood (Rev.13:8). What happened about 2000 years ago at the cross, in no way, shape or form, affect that matter regarding God. Why Jesus can forgive sins even before the cross testifies to that.

Tong
R0797

Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

 

[Tong2020]

Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

No doubt. And as I have pointed out, Jesus, even from the foundation of the world, in God's perspective, had shed His blood (Rev.13:8). What happened about 2000 years ago at the cross, in no way, shape or form, affect that matter regarding God. Why Jesus can forgive sins even before the cross testifies to that.

Tong
R0798

 

[marksman]

Are you trying to entrap me again? How many times do I have to say water baptism has no spiritual value?

If that is the case, why did Peter say on the day of Pentecost, "Repent and be baptized for the remission of sins and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

If it has no spiritual value why did Peter say you needed it for the remission of sins?

 

[marksman]

While it could be that water baptism may well be taught by the apostles, water baptism is not the gospel that the apostles preached. Rather, it is Jesus Christ that the apostles preached.

Acts 8:5 Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria and preached Christ to them.

Acts 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning at this Scripture, preached Jesus to him.

Tong
R0796

Is that so? So Peter didn't say on the day of Pentecost "Repent and be BAPTISED for the remission of sins and you shall receive the Holy Spirit."

 

[Tong2020]

Is that so? So Peter didn't say on the day of Pentecost "Repent and be BAPTISED for the remission of sins and you shall receive the Holy Spirit."

Yes that is so in accordance to scriptures.

Peter's answer in v. 38 to the question asked of him v. 37, got nothing to do with the truth that baptism is not the gospel that the apostles preached, but Jesus Christ. Perhaps it would be helpful to you to read Acts 2 and then tell us what is the gospel that Peter preached.

Tong
R0804

 

[Mr C]

No doubt. And as I have pointed out, Jesus, even from the foundation of the world, in God's perspective, had shed His blood (Rev.13:8). What happened about 2000 years ago at the cross, in no way, shape or form, affect that matter regarding God. Why Jesus can forgive sins even before the cross testifies to that.

Tong
R0798

(Rev.13:8) does not mean what you claim it means by a long shot.

eisegesis.

Jesus is God,that is how He could forgive sins.

While a man lives he can give his material things away any way he chooses, but when he dies his WILL will regulate where and how and who those things go to.

 

[Tong2020]

(Rev.13:8) does not mean what you claim it means by a long shot.

eisegesis.

Jesus is God,that is how He could forgive sins.

If there is forgiveness of sin without the shedding of blood by Jesus Christ, then there was no real need for Jesus to shed His blood.

Tong
R0807

 

[Mr C]

If there is forgiveness of sin without the shedding of blood by Jesus Christ, then there was no real need for Jesus to shed His blood.

Tong
R0807

God (Jesus) has all the POWER to do so.

 

[Tong2020]

God (Jesus) has all the POWER to do so.

There is no issue that God is omnipotent. The issue is:

If there is forgiveness of sin without the shedding of blood by Jesus Christ, then there was no real need for Jesus to shed His blood.

Tong
R0808

 

[Mr C]

If there is forgiveness of sin without the shedding of blood by Jesus Christ, then there was no real need for Jesus to shed His blood.

Tong
R0807

Mt 9:2 And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee.
Mt 9:5 For whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and walk?
Mr 2:5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.
Mr 2:9 Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk?
Lu 5:23 Whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Rise up and walk?

 

[Mr C]

There is no issue that God is omnipotent. The issue is:

If there is forgiveness of sin without the shedding of blood by Jesus Christ, then there was no real need for Jesus to shed His blood.

Tong
R0808

Mt 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

 

[Tong2020]

Mt 9:2 And, behold, they brought to him a man sick of the palsy, lying on a bed: and Jesus seeing their faith said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee.
Mt 9:5 For whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and walk?
Mr 2:5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.
Mr 2:9 Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk?
Lu 5:23 Whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Rise up and walk?

It seems you don't understand what I said in my other post, that you go in circles.

Jesus, even from the foundation of the world, in God's perspective, had shed His blood (Rev.13:8). Why Jesus can forgive sins even before the cross testifies to that.

Tong
R0809