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Its only foolish because HE didnt,
Joh_3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
according to your foolishness, God gave Himself. one that cannot die, became dead and than raised Himself from the dead. And here we hear the laughter of satan and his hordes as they see "christians" stripping away salvation by there ignorance and blindness.
Lol, that is hilarious.
Hos 9:7, The days of visitation are come, the days of recompence are come; Israel shall know it: the prophet is a fool, the spiritual man is mad, for the multitude of thine iniquity, and the great hatred.
Since I have proven the Deity of Christ on these boards time and time again, I do not feel that I have to do it again here.
But I will say that yes, God gave Himself on the Cross; He became human so that He would be able to die. Yes, Jesus raised Himself from the dead (John 10:18, Romans 4:24-25, Romans 10:9).
So mankind has no salvation because the foolish of this world have clearly stated that God died for the sins of man and not Christ, and so a legal precedent has happened in that God broke His own covenant with His son, whom He , God sent to the cross for our sake. I guess God is a liar according to you.
Your confusion perhaps, not mine.
Regarding the truth in scriptures that man was created in the image of God, such image could be properly understood in the unfallen Adam and not in the fallen Adam. To try to understand the image of God in fallen Adam proves to be erroneous and misplaced. Further, scriptures teach us not much about the unfallen Adam that we are somewhat limited to knowing the image of God in him. However, scriptures teach us that Jesus Christ is the image of God. And we are blessed in that scriptures tells us a lot about Jesus, so that we can now see and know the image of God by looking at Him. Looking at Jesus then, we see the image of God. And of the many things we learn of the image of God, one is that of being clean, uncorrupted, without sin ~ holy.
You said "No other creature on earth has the spiritual discernment that only humans and angels, and for arguments sake, any other creature that has a conscience or an awareness of right and wrong." What you say there of man as having an awareness of right and wrong, which is in other words, of good and evil, jumps out of the truth that man (Adam) was created by God, innocent, without the knowledge of good and evil. You speak about the fallen mankind who, after Adam have eaten of the forbidden fruit, have gained knowledge of good and evil, of right and wrong, rendering the man, innocent no more, and clean no more, without sin no more, holy no more ~ in the image of God no more.
While there is that distinction between man and other creatures, that does not establish that such distinction is the image of God. You easily forget that scriptures declare that Jesus Christ is the image of God (which at least for me, implies that there is no other among man except him for that matter). And that I'm sure is not only because he have spiritual faculty. For if that were it, then it is pointless that scriptures makes such declaration of Christ, when that will render all fallen mankind as the image of God.
You said "....image of God does not denote a standing with God the Judge, as to guilt or innocence, as Adam chose to sin while being created in God's image. "
And no one is saying that. You must realize that innocence is not some act that man does. Innocence is a quality or state of being and existence.
Again, I like to point you to Jesus Christ who is the image of God, that perhaps you may, by doing so and if God wills, understand what the image of God is.
Tong
R0856
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I understand why you say that. For you don't know God as a triune God.
I ask these simple questions to you:
1. Who do you say created all things that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers?
2. Who do you say is before all things?
3. In whom do you say all things consist?
Romans 11:36 For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen.
God created because He willed to do so. God created because of His purpose. God created because He is pleased to do so. God created for His glory.
I see that you have trouble understanding the pre-existence of the Christ, that is, the Word referred to by apostle John, the Lord whom John the baptist was sent to prepare His way. Additionally, you have trouble understanding what it means that the Christ is the King of kings and the Lord of Lords, something that is true only of God and of no one else, more so, of a any creature.
You speak of the triune nature of God as foolishness according to your human capacity of reasoning and thinking (human wisdom), as though by such natural human capacity you expect to comprehend and understand His words in scriptures (even God). Scriptures was clear on this, that the the things of the spirit of God are spiritually discerned. It must be realized that everything about God is spirit and is spiritual, for God is Spirit. And because of that, the fallen natural man could not significantly and substantially comprehend and appreciate God, more than the revelation by the things created. And so God, in His eternal wisdom, in His time, sent Jesus Christ who is the (visible) image of God. That through Him, we may see and know God who is invisible. And so that, when it was time that Jesus Christ went back to heaven, that God sent the Holy Spirit even to dwell in the child of God, that by such, the child of God is able to spiritually discern the things of the Spirit of God, and be conformed to the image of the Son, that is, Jesus Christ.
Tong
R0857
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You're entirely wrong Tong, you didn't explain anything with any sort of viable understanding. The confusion lies with you. You do not have a comprehensive understanding of this principle, and you cannot get over the one verse that refers to Christ's image. Your whole doctrine on this matter seems to stem from that one verse. Like I said, it's an ontological issue, not moral. Man can sin and find redemption for his sins, in both the Old and New Testaments (oblations and repentance), this does not change his intrinsic constitution, obviously. For this matter, because animals do not have such a moral awareness, and therefore are unaccountable for what they do (innocent), they too then, according to your understanding, be considered in the image of God, Yes, the absurdity of such a notion exposes the fact that the image of God is referring to those with the ability to comprehend God, our existence, our conscience.
The following passage shows that God refers to His image in those who came after Adam's 'fallen state', even within murderers.
Genesis 9:6. "Whoever sheds man's blood, By man his blood shall be shed, For in the image of God He made man.
Even David was considered a 'man after God's own heart'. Moses was a 'friend' to God, Job & Noah were considered righteous before God. All this, after the fall.
Get serious Tong, you're just babbling continuously. Start showing that you have some logical understanding of what you profess. You keep deferring the obligation because you can't make sense of anything that you adhere to, but try to accuse others of being spiritually blind. You've been explained the redundancy of having three all-powerful beings in one godhead, or the idiocracy of God propitiating Himself, or the oxymoron and implausibility of a the existence of a god-man.
Quit babbling Tong, get serious and start explaining these absurdities if you can, to show that you have any discernment of God's Word, as you naively and erroneously claim.
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Lol, does it not seem absurd that God would desire to create us puny humans in the first place? Lots of things seem absurd at first glance because we don't fully understand God's nature, and we never will on this side of death.
I think you meant mans fallibility, not infallibility, BTW.
I'm still not sure what you think your demonstrated with the Atonement, as I saw nothing there that disproves the deity of Christ.
Such a rebellious and disobedient race ! Only then also noting the extravagantly over-generous mercy of the Creator,
and
"eye has not seen" the ETERNAL LIFE GLORY AS ONE WITH THE FATHER AND WITH THE SON ... ... ...
a tad, (BILLIONS AND BILLIONS AND BILLIONS TO THE TRILLIONTH TRILLIONTH TRILLIONTH POWER AND MORE ) ... ,
more than puny..... we won't even remember this pitiable life in the flesh, none of the worries or pains or tears or unimaginable baby killers , warmongers, poisoners of mankind and polluters of all the earth....
not even at all.....
Christ is God, and also died for the sins of man.
Have you considered what a coward the Father must be, to create a finite human being and force him to go to the Cross to pay for the sins of mankind; and didn't do it Himself?
But this is not what happened. In Isaiah 9:6 it becomes clear that the son who was given was and is the everlasting Father. In order, also, to make that scripture not say what it clearly is teaching, one has to change the wording of the scripture twice.
Also, there is clearly one Lord in holy scripture (Ephesians 4:5, 1 Corinthians 8:6); and this Lord is the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21). Yet, no one can say that Jesus is the Lord except by the Holy Ghost (1 Corinthians 12:3), even the Spirit of truth. And Jesus is the Lord (1 Corinthians 8:6).
This would indicate that Jesus, being the one Lord, is the same Person who was previously said to be the one Lord.
Only the Son is in human flesh and the Father is an eternal Spirit who inhabiteth eternity. And the Holy Ghost is also an eternal Spirit who inhabits eternity; and has behind Him an understanding of what it means to be human (see Luke 23:46); while the Father doesn't. Yet they are the same Spirit (Ephesians 4:4, 1 Corinthians 12:4-6); while the Holy Ghost proceedeth from the Father (John 15:26). This is because the eternal Spirit (the Father) took on human flesh; Eph 3:11, According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
And subsequently released His Spirit out of that flesh back to the eternal Spirit who inhabiteth eternity.
For because He inhabiteth eternity, He cannot cease to dwell in eternity, even though He descends.
Because the nature of someone inhabiting eternity is that they are there eternally.
Hope this helps.
The Trinity is really not that hard to understand once you know what it is all about.
That was on you since you had been evading it for long now.
First you said in your other post that "The message of the Christ is that man can find redemption through the perfect sacrifice of Jesus Christ." From which I asked the question "What is foolishness in that, if that is the message of the cross? Why do the Greeks who seeks after wisdom find that to be foolishness, if that is the message of the cross?". And to which you responded with this post of yours, which does not really address the question. So, do not be surprised if ever I ask the question again to you, as though, it was uncalled for.
To comment on this post of yours, I can see that you have given us a picture of how the proud and epicureans, and the shallow and unwise, perceives the message of the cross. But what I was asking is with regards what scriptures said, that is, that the message of the cross is foolishness to the wise such as were those referred to by Paul as "the Greeks", in those days. Well,....
Anyway, let me just move on and tell you this, that when scriptures said that the message of the cross is foolishness to the Greeks, it presents the gospel preached as a contradiction to human wisdom. Its message of a crucified Messiah, does not appeal to human wisdom, which to those that the world considers wise, is foolishness. The message of the cross, as perceived according to human wisdom, is foolishness, not because the crucifixion of a person in those days was foolishness, for it was not. But here is what makes it foolishness to them who were considered the wise in those days ~ the preaching by the apostles about the person crucified, that is, Jesus. More than that they preach that Jesus is the Christ, what they testify to, teach, and preach about the Christ is what makes the message of the cross as utter foolishness to the wise Greeks of those days. Among the many truths they testify to, teach, and preach about the Christ is that He is the Savior; that He is the Lord whose way John the baptist prepared upon His coming into the world; that by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; that all things were created through Him and for Him, that He is before all things; that in Him all things consist; that without Him nothing was made that was made; that He is the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last; King of kings and the Lord of lords; etc., etc.. In other words, they testify to, teach, and preach, that the Christ is the Almighty God.
Thus, the message of the cross, to them who were considered the wise in those days, and I think even now in our days, is utter foolishness according to human wisdom.
You said regarding the message of the cross, "But the insightful, humble and reverent, perceive the wisdom of God behind it." But here's what Paul said in scriptures relative to this, "For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God."
Tong
R0858
bbyrd009
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May I ask, do you know who said this, "I am the First and the Last. I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore."?
Tong
R0859
The great danger to the lost souls is not only denying Jesus is God,
but the false teaching , (does it bring them comfort!? ), that everyone is made in the image of God ,
as if they hope or think they somehow are saved, no matter even if they do deny Jesus !
And so forth with however many other false teachings they hold.
i.e. unbelief condemns people today.
but the false teaching , (does it bring them comfort!? ), that everyone is made in the image of God ,
as if they hope or think they somehow are saved, no matter even if they do deny Jesus !
And so forth with however many other false teachings they hold.
i.e. unbelief condemns people today.
Jesus Christ is the image of God. If all men were made in the image of God, there is no point in God's predestination to be conformed to the image of His Son, those He foreknew. For my other arguments against such, please check out my exchanges with DNB relative to that under this thread.
Tong
R0860
So now that it wasnt Christ that dies but God, we have no salvation, thanks for doing the devils work for Him.
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