WOULD YOU LIKE TO JOIN A NEW TESTAMENT CHURCH?

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mjrhealth

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Just a thought. Are we not seeing miracles because we are not seeking the Kingdom of God first? I could believe that as we seem to be more enamored with denominations rather than the Kingdom of God.
More likely that when there we see miracles people chase after the miracles, no interest in Christ an what He has to offer.

Joh 6:26 Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.
Joh 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
 
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marksman

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More likely that when there we see miracles people chase after the miracles, no interest in Christ an what He has to offer.

Joh 6:26 Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.
Joh 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

So funny that those who deride miracles always quote this verse even when they are told you do not form a doctrine on one verse of scripture.
 

mjrhealth

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So funny that those who deride miracles always quote this verse even when they are told you do not form a doctrine on one verse of scripture.
No problem with miracles, but men love religion, love works, doing this doing that, miracles just another thing for men to follow after, few pursue after Christ for who He is.
 

amadeus

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Just a thought. Are we not seeing miracles because we are not seeking the Kingdom of God first? I could believe that as we seem to be more enamored with denominations rather than the Kingdom of God.
That is certainly at least part of the problem. If people are not seeking first things first they should expect very little from God... that is very little "good". However, if they are moving right striving to keep the first things first according to God, part of that is letting God lead. In that leading there is more likely to be found what men call miracles, but when they do happen, it is because someone is really letting Him lead... Someone putting too much emphasis on miracles may miss something at the moment more important! God knows!
 

Illuminator

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MORE ABOUT MEMBERS OF THE WAY.

The Members of the NTC were NOT Christians. That name did not come into operation until the gospel was taken to Antioch and it was the invention of unbelievers as a designation of contempt. The members of The Way as they were known, still observed the religious laws, attended the temple, honoured the Sabbath and Holy Days for the simple reason they did not stop being Jews.

Isaiah 35:8, Isaiah 54:13-17 – this prophecy refers to the Church as the Holy Way where sons will be taught by God and they will not err. The Church has been given the gift of infallibility when teaching about faith and morals, where her sons are taught directly by God and will not err. This gift of infallibility means that the Church is prevented from teaching error by the power of the Holy Spirit (it does not mean that Church leaders do not sin!)

Acts 9:2; 22:4; 24:14,22 – the early Church is identified as the “Way” prophesied in Isaiah 35:8 where fools will not err therein.

Matt. 10:20; Luke 12:12 – Jesus tells His apostles it is not they who speak, but the Spirit of their Father speaking through them. If the Spirit is the one speaking and leading the Church, the Church cannot err on matters of faith and morals.

Matt. 16:18 – Jesus promises the gates of Hades would never prevail against the Church. This requires that the Church teach infallibly. If the Church did not have the gift of infallibility, the gates of Hades and error would prevail. Also, since the Catholic Church was the only Church that existed up until the Reformation, those who follow the Protestant reformers call Christ a liar by saying that Hades did prevail.

Matt. 16:19 – for Jesus to give Peter and the apostles, mere human beings, the authority to bind in heaven what they bound on earth requires infallibility. This is a gift of the Holy Spirit and has nothing to do with the holiness of the person receiving the gift.

Matt. 18:17-18 – the Church (not Scripture) is the final authority on questions of the faith. This demands infallibility when teaching the faith. She must be prevented from teaching error in order to lead her members to the fullness of salvation.

Matt. 28:20 – Jesus promises that He will be with the Church always. Jesus’ presence in the Church assures infallible teaching on faith and morals. With Jesus present, we can never be deceived.

Mark 8:33 – non-Catholics sometimes use this verse to down play Peter’s authority. This does not make sense. In this verse, Jesus rebukes Peter to show the import of His Messianic role as the Savior of humanity. Moreover, at this point, Peter was not yet the Pope with the keys, and Jesus did not rebuke Peter for his teaching. Jesus rebuked Peter for his lack of understanding.

Luke 10:16 – whoever hears you, hears me. Whoever rejects you, rejects me. Jesus is very clear that the bishops of the Church speak with Christ’s infallible authority.

Luke 22:32 – Jesus prays for Peter, that his faith may not fail. Jesus’ prayer for Peter’s faith is perfectly efficacious, and this allows Peter to teach the faith without error (which means infallibly).

John 11:51-52 – some non-Catholics argue that sinners cannot have the power to teach infallibly. But in this verse, God allows Caiaphas to prophesy infallibly, even though he was evil and plotted Jesus’ death. God allows sinners to teach infallibly, just as He allows sinners to become saints. As a loving Father, He exalts His children, and is bound by His own justice to give His children a mechanism to know truth from error.

the sola scripturist cannot comprehend "infallible", so they are forced to change its meaning.
 

marksman

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Isaiah 35:8, Isaiah 54:13-17 – this prophecy refers to the Church as the Holy Way where sons will be taught by God and they will not err. The Church has been given the gift of infallibility when teaching about faith and morals, where her sons are taught directly by God and will not err. This gift of infallibility means that the Church is prevented from teaching error by the power of the Holy Spirit (it does not mean that Church leaders do not sin!)

Acts 9:2; 22:4; 24:14,22 – the early Church is identified as the “Way” prophesied in Isaiah 35:8 where fools will not err therein.

Matt. 10:20; Luke 12:12 – Jesus tells His apostles it is not they who speak, but the Spirit of their Father speaking through them. If the Spirit is the one speaking and leading the Church, the Church cannot err on matters of faith and morals.

Matt. 16:18 – Jesus promises the gates of Hades would never prevail against the Church. This requires that the Church teach infallibly. If the Church did not have the gift of infallibility, the gates of Hades and error would prevail. Also, since the Catholic Church was the only Church that existed up until the Reformation, those who follow the Protestant reformers call Christ a liar by saying that Hades did prevail.

Matt. 16:19 – for Jesus to give Peter and the apostles, mere human beings, the authority to bind in heaven what they bound on earth requires infallibility. This is a gift of the Holy Spirit and has nothing to do with the holiness of the person receiving the gift.

Matt. 18:17-18 – the Church (not Scripture) is the final authority on questions of the faith. This demands infallibility when teaching the faith. She must be prevented from teaching error in order to lead her members to the fullness of salvation.

Matt. 28:20 – Jesus promises that He will be with the Church always. Jesus’ presence in the Church assures infallible teaching on faith and morals. With Jesus present, we can never be deceived.

Mark 8:33 – non-Catholics sometimes use this verse to down play Peter’s authority. This does not make sense. In this verse, Jesus rebukes Peter to show the import of His Messianic role as the Savior of humanity. Moreover, at this point, Peter was not yet the Pope with the keys, and Jesus did not rebuke Peter for his teaching. Jesus rebuked Peter for his lack of understanding.

Luke 10:16 – whoever hears you, hears me. Whoever rejects you, rejects me. Jesus is very clear that the bishops of the Church speak with Christ’s infallible authority.

Luke 22:32 – Jesus prays for Peter, that his faith may not fail. Jesus’ prayer for Peter’s faith is perfectly efficacious, and this allows Peter to teach the faith without error (which means infallibly).

John 11:51-52 – some non-Catholics argue that sinners cannot have the power to teach infallibly. But in this verse, God allows Caiaphas to prophesy infallibly, even though he was evil and plotted Jesus’ death. God allows sinners to teach infallibly, just as He allows sinners to become saints. As a loving Father, He exalts His children, and is bound by His own justice to give His children a mechanism to know truth from error.

the sola scripturist cannot comprehend "infallible", so they are forced to change its meaning.

Thank you for your dissertation on the Catholic church. As this thread is not about the catholic church, I suggest you start your own promotion of catholicism elsewhere, and in the meantime could you delete this post. Thank you.
 

marksman

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No problem with miracles, but men love religion, love works, doing this doing that, miracles just another thing for men to follow after, few pursue after Christ for who He is.

My experience is after 66 years as a believer that people who are more interested in religion and works are not usually interested in the supernatural. In my study of the church, those that are prepared to ditch religion and works are the ones that have opened the door to the supernatural. People like David DuPlessis, Arthur Wallis, Derek Prince, Terry Virgo, Gerald Coates, Michael Pusey, Lance Lambert, Roger Forster, Roland and Heidi Baker, Rick Joyner, Bob Mumford, Michael Harper, Peter Wagner, and John Arnott to name a few.
 
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marksman

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ANOTHER SIDEBAR

It helps us to understand The Way if we know the background to religion and gods at the time they were spreading the good news.

At the time there was no shortage of gods, especially in Rome. In fact, almost everyone worshiped something. Roman homes would often have statues of several gods to cover wealth, health, good crops, children, and so on.

Up until the time of Jesus, all the other gods were just a monument to nothing. People revered them and worshipped them but all they were doing was worshipping a slab of stone. When they prayed to their gods they answered their prayers if coincidence gave them the answer they wanted. If it didn't then the god did not answer their prayer and so it was inadvisable to go ahead with whatever it was they wanted to do.

At the same time, it was the temple of those gods that came out on top because people regularly gave money to the temples and guess who benefited the most? The priests in those temples. If you wanted the god to help you out sometimes it was dependant on how much you gave to its temple.

This scenario shows you how clever Satan is. Despite the fact that the gods never did anything for the people who worshipped them, they still exercised a slavish devotion to these bits of stone. It wasn't until Jesus came along and started doing what he did and teaching what he taught that they began to realize they were being led up the garden path. The fact is all the pagan gods were a one-way street. The people serving the gods and the gods giving nothing back in return for the simple reason they couldn't as they were as dead as a dodo.

When Jesus came along he challenged the status quo. He has a habit of doing that even in the present-day church.

The Way Jesus brought with him was one that offered eternal life. None of the other gods did. he healed the sick. None of the other gods did. He raised the dead. None of the other gods did. He fed the 5,000. None of the other gods did. He accepted everyone. None of the other gods did. He taught the people. None of the other gods did. He taught the way of peace. None of the other gods did. He taught the way of forgiveness. None of the other gods did. He prayed for his followers. None of the other gods did. He forgave people. None of the other gods did. Jesus was active in the everyday lives of his followers. The pagan gods didn't have the slightest interest in what was going on in the worshiper's lives. Jesus didn't set himself above and apart from the common man. The pagan gods were untouchable. And most important, although the priests of the pagan gods managed to have him crucified he rose from the dead. He conquered death. That was one thing the pagan gods were incapable of doing.

It is no wonder that Jesus the Rabbi, the prophet, the messiah had such a following. So far the people who had a spirituality that encompassed their whole lives had been duped by pagan gods and their priests who were wealthy and untouchable were being offered a message of hope that would change their lives. They were being introduced to a God who was real and who spoke into their lives for the better. What was there not to like?

Even the worship of Yahweh the Jewish God did little for them as the Sanhedrin had turned it into a slavish rule of law which made it almost impossible to keep to satisfy their self-righteous demands. Apart from the fact that if you wanted an example of what it meant to be a follower of Yahweh, the last person you would turn to was a member of the Sanhedrin as they were all rich on the backs of the people's poverty so it was understandable that they saw Jesus as a threat to their authority and money.

So one might say that the entrance of Jesus into Jewish life was a breath of fresh air. Here was the genuine article, the real deal. One that the people could relate to. For years they had followed a god/s that were unreachable and demanding and offered nothing. This man spoke the language of the common man and backed up what he said with actions and miracles.

And that is why Jesus the messiah today is head of the church that has encompassed every part of the globe and which is built on people from every tongue, nation, and tribe. It is universal. That is why it is so important we focus on HIS church, not ours because it is HIS church that will win the day.

Not yours. Not mine. Not the Popes, God bless him. It will be HIS church.
 
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Illuminator

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Thank you for your dissertation on the Catholic church. As this thread is not about the catholic church, I suggest you start your own promotion of catholicism elsewhere, and in the meantime could you delete this post. Thank you.
You are trying to Protestantize "The Way" by ignoring the OT, and the facts of history. I am not promoting Catholicism, I am promoting the Truth, which evidently, you are afraid of. "The Way", as prophesied in Isaiah 35:8, clearly points to infallibility, "where fools will not err". You are forced to deny what you cannot comprehend, even when it is explained with multiple Scriptures listed in post #506. You have a big problem.

OIP.AVaKFSpzsdgHOCOQD8zOUQHaHB
 
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marksman

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You are trying to Protestantize "The Way" by ignoring the OT, and the facts of history. I am not promoting Catholicism, I am promoting the Truth, which evidently, you are afraid of. "The Way", as prophesied in Isaiah 35:8, clearly points to infallibility, "where fools will not err". You are forced to deny what you cannot comprehend, even when it is explained with multiple Scriptures listed in post #506. You have a big problem.

OIP.AVaKFSpzsdgHOCOQD8zOUQHaHB
Once again please delete your post as my thread is not there to promote catholicism.
 

marksman

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You are trying to Protestantize "The Way" by ignoring the OT, and the facts of history. I am not promoting Catholicism, I am promoting the Truth, which evidently, you are afraid of. "The Way", as prophesied in Isaiah 35:8, clearly points to infallibility, "where fools will not err". You are forced to deny what you cannot comprehend, even when it is explained with multiple Scriptures listed in post #506. You have a big problem.

OIP.AVaKFSpzsdgHOCOQD8zOUQHaHB

P.S. There are two things that do not allow me to be afraid. One, I am autistic so feelings do not dominate my life. And two, in 1976 I was in a head-on collision and because of the speed we were going, I should have died but didn't. As I saw the car on the wrong side of the road with no way of avoiding it I said "Jesus here I come" expecting to die.

At that very moment, a pair of hands behind me took hold of my shoulders and held me in place in my seat. I came out of it with hardly a scratch. The passenger in the other car shot through the windscreen and landed on the bonnet of my car such was the force of the impact.

My car was a mangled wreck and I could not get out of the driver's door.

On that day, I realised that it was an angel of the Lord behind me who saved me. Since that day I have never been afraid of anything.
 
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marksman

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Once again please delete your post as my thread is not there to promote catholicism.
You are trying to Protestantize "The Way" by ignoring the OT, and the facts of history. I am not promoting Catholicism, I am promoting the Truth, which evidently, you are afraid of. "The Way", as prophesied in Isaiah 35:8, clearly points to infallibility, "where fools will not err". You are forced to deny what you cannot comprehend, even when it is explained with multiple Scriptures listed in post #506. You have a big problem.

OIP.AVaKFSpzsdgHOCOQD8zOUQHaHB
The Way was neither protestant nor catholic. it was a sect of Judaism. It wasn't even Christian as that word was not invented until they went to Antioch to preach the gospel and it was given them by the unbelievers. it was not a term that they used for themselves. So please delete your post. I have asked you nicely so please do the Christian thing and delete it as it is an improper invasion of my thread.
 

marksman

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This thread is about being a member of the New Testament Church. Not as some are trying to make it a competition between the protestant and catholic church. Someone is accusing me of pitting protestantism against catholicism. The period I am writing about was neither protestant nor catholic. it was mainly a sect of Judaism known as The Way and I am sticking to the book of Acts to describe it.

Anyone who is not bound by denominationalism knows that I do not subscribe to either protestant or catholic teaching. I endeavour to teach the truth as I see it and if that upset a devotee of the catholic or protestant church, they have to deal with it and not expect me to revise my theology because they don't like it.

I have no objection to comments and ideas on MY THREADS but I am offended when someone uses MY THREADS to promote their doctrine and church contrary to what I am teaching in MY THREAD. Alternative views are welcome but not on the basis of they are right and I am wrong.
 

Illuminator

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My New Testament Church fulfils Judaism while yours ignores it. This is evident in your post about The Way.
 

marksman

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Isaiah 35:8, Isaiah 54:13-17 – this prophecy refers to the Church as the Holy Way where sons will be taught by God and they will not err. The Church has been given the gift of infallibility when teaching about faith and morals, where her sons are taught directly by God and will not err. This gift of infallibility means that the Church is prevented from teaching error by the power of the Holy Spirit (it does not mean that Church leaders do not sin!)

Acts 9:2; 22:4; 24:14,22 – the early Church is identified as the “Way” prophesied in Isaiah 35:8 where fools will not err therein.

Matt. 10:20; Luke 12:12 – Jesus tells His apostles it is not they who speak, but the Spirit of their Father speaking through them. If the Spirit is the one speaking and leading the Church, the Church cannot err on matters of faith and morals.

Matt. 16:18 – Jesus promises the gates of Hades would never prevail against the Church. This requires that the Church teach infallibly. If the Church did not have the gift of infallibility, the gates of Hades and error would prevail. Also, since the Catholic Church was the only Church that existed up until the Reformation, those who follow the Protestant reformers call Christ a liar by saying that Hades did prevail.

Matt. 16:19 – for Jesus to give Peter and the apostles, mere human beings, the authority to bind in heaven what they bound on earth requires infallibility. This is a gift of the Holy Spirit and has nothing to do with the holiness of the person receiving the gift.

Matt. 18:17-18 – the Church (not Scripture) is the final authority on questions of the faith. This demands infallibility when teaching the faith. She must be prevented from teaching error in order to lead her members to the fullness of salvation.

Matt. 28:20 – Jesus promises that He will be with the Church always. Jesus’ presence in the Church assures infallible teaching on faith and morals. With Jesus present, we can never be deceived.

Mark 8:33 – non-Catholics sometimes use this verse to down play Peter’s authority. This does not make sense. In this verse, Jesus rebukes Peter to show the import of His Messianic role as the Savior of humanity. Moreover, at this point, Peter was not yet the Pope with the keys, and Jesus did not rebuke Peter for his teaching. Jesus rebuked Peter for his lack of understanding.

Luke 10:16 – whoever hears you, hears me. Whoever rejects you, rejects me. Jesus is very clear that the bishops of the Church speak with Christ’s infallible authority.

Luke 22:32 – Jesus prays for Peter, that his faith may not fail. Jesus’ prayer for Peter’s faith is perfectly efficacious, and this allows Peter to teach the faith without error (which means infallibly).

John 11:51-52 – some non-Catholics argue that sinners cannot have the power to teach infallibly. But in this verse, God allows Caiaphas to prophesy infallibly, even though he was evil and plotted Jesus’ death. God allows sinners to teach infallibly, just as He allows sinners to become saints. As a loving Father, He exalts His children, and is bound by His own justice to give His children a mechanism to know truth from error.

the sola scripturist cannot comprehend "infallible", so they are forced to change its meaning.
 

marksman

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My New Testament Church fulfils Judaism while yours ignores it. This is evident in your post about The Way.

My New Testament Church fulfils Judaism while yours ignores it. This is evident in your post about The Way.
 

marksman

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You are trying to Protestantize "The Way" by ignoring the OT, and the facts of history. I am not promoting Catholicism, I am promoting the Truth, which evidently, you are afraid of. "The Way", as prophesied in Isaiah 35:8, clearly points to infallibility, "where fools will not err". You are forced to deny what you cannot comprehend, even when it is explained with multiple Scriptures listed in post #506. You have a big problem.

OIP.AVaKFSpzsdgHOCOQD8zOUQHaHB
You are trying to Protestantize "The Way" by ignoring the OT, and the facts of history. I am not promoting Catholicism, I am promoting the Truth, which evidently, you are afraid of. "The Way", as prophesied in Isaiah 35:8, clearly points to infallibility, "where fools will not err". You are forced to deny what you cannot comprehend, even when it is explained with multiple Scriptures listed in post #506. You have a big problem.
 

marksman

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A DEVELOPING CHURCH
When anything is growing be it the church, a business, or a family, there are always teething problems. I remember when our son was born, thinking about how my daughter was going to respond to this new addition to the family, bearing in mind she was getting all the attention up till now. So I devised a plan to try and mitigate the addition for her as much as possible.

When we brought our son home from the hospital, our daughter was sitting on the settee waiting. I came through the front door and walked up to her before I did anything else and said to her "This is your new brother," emphasizing the "your" and put him in her arms. The plan seemed to work as they were the best of mates growing up.

Not surprising, the NTC having been up to now a sect of Judaism, was going to encounter growth problems with the entrance of Gentiles into the church. Don't forget that the new believers up till now were Jews who still adhered to the demands of the Jewish religion which kept everyone else at bay and not wanting others to join in the worship of Yahweh. Anyone that was not a Jew or a proselytiser was not allowed into the temple or synagogue and the males that were had been circumcised as evidence of their Jewishness.

The church in Judea took the initiative and came down to Antioch to let them know that salvation was dependent on circumcision. In other words, repent and be baptised and be circumcised for the forgiveness of sins. it was not an issue on the day of Pentecost because the new converts were Jews.

However, Paul and Barnabas were not convinced so there was a disputation with the men from the Judean church. Because they could not agree they decided that Paul and Barnabas along with a few others would go up to Jerusalem and talk to the apostles and elders about this matter. Note apostles and elders. Note no mention of pastors.

When they got to Jerusalem they met with the church and the apostles and elders (not pastors) and told them about the wonderful things that had been happening amongst the gentiles. Now note who were against what they wanted. Pharisees who believed. It is hard to convince people who are wedded onto a particular doctrine. I guess you have noticed that here. Moving on or going with the flow was not on the agenda of the Pharisees even though they were believers. Their attitude was we have always done things this way and we are not going to change. Lord, deliver us from the status quo.

As far as they were concerned they had to be circumcised and keep the law of Moses (as well as being born again and receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit).

After some long deliberations, Peter addressed the meeting. He said it was God's plan to preach the good news to the Gentiles which was made evident by giving them the Holy Spirit which signalled the fact that there was no difference between Jew and Gentile and then Paul and Barnabas recounted the signs and miracles that God had done through them amongst the Gentiles. (It seems wherever you go you can't get away from the supernatural).

Then James appealed to OT prophecy from Amos 9: 11-12, to back up the claim to accept the Gentiles but not to bother them with Jewish ways except to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality (which would include homosexuality), from things strangled and from blood (that put paid to the idea of drinking Jesus blood at the communion.)

They agreed on this and sent some men to Antioch with a letter from the church at Jerusalem which said in as many words forget the demand for circumcision, just make sure you don't do the things that are listed (that which they agreed upon) and if they did this they would do well.

It appears the believers in Antioch were pleased with the outcome. In addition, Judas and Silas who were prophets stayed there for a time exhorting and encouraging the church. Whilst most of the visitors went back to Jerusalem Simon, Paul and Barnabas stayed to teach and preach the Word of the Lord.

That in a sense was a momentous occasion for the church because it could have descended into farce and disagreement, but the Lord prevailed and a good outcome was achieved by everyone. Growth always brings mess but it always can be cleared up if we are prepared to listen to the dictates of the Holy Spirit. Bearing in mind that it is HIS church, not ours so he is well able to sort out any problems that may arise if we will listen to him and not to denominational demands.