Saved, which means what?

[Brakelite]

God isn't saving us from Himself. Even destruction in hell is an act of mercy toward those who hate righteousness and would loathe heaven. God is saving us from us.

 

[marksman]

Jesus came "to save that which was lost". What was lost? How about Life? But Jesus also had that in mind, did He not?

"The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly." John 10:10

Jesus brought Salvation and Life. What is required for a person to receive what Jesus brought? If a person were to lay hold of one or both, how long would this salvation and/or life last?

I once saw a video on evangelism, and they were making the point to not use religious phrases. To illustrate a new Christian was talking to a colleague at work and he said about his conversion. "I was lost but now I am found." (raised eyebrows).

 

[marksman]

1 Cor 15:1-9,14
Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.

I noticed this verse and one little word that I felt was quite significant. That word is "if."

You are saved by the gospel IF you hold fast to the word which Paul preached to them. If you DON'T hold fast, are you then in danger of losing your salvation?

 

[marksman]

I think that is a very good evaluation. It allows for free will and a deliberate determination to follow after unrighteousness, but expresses the difficulty that I believe would come with such a decision knowing God would make such a decision unattractive.

I think it would be more accurate to believe that those snakes were always in that wilderness, but Good removed His protection. I think the same could be said of many instances where we tend to think of ours and Israel's suffering as a direct result of God's action, but I rather think He is simply getting out of the way. "Except the Lord be merciful we would all perish".


The quarantine in one sense is Good hiding Himself in order to allow us time to come to Him and develop our faith. Like the curtains in the sanctuary. They were there to protect everyone from the death that would result from our sinful natures getting to close to God's holiness.
You know how we feel when we offend a friend or a spouse? We don't want to look them in the eye until we are certain we are forgiven. Sometimes even one offended by adultery never trust fully again although she had forgiven and stayed in the marriage. Isaiah was "undone" ... Woe is me he cried... Because He saw himself as he truly was in the light of Gods glory. God isn't going about seekng excuses to destroy us. On the contrary. He's going about doing all He can to save us from ourselves.

We should not be surprised at the snakes. After all, Satan is a snake in the grass.

 

[marksman]

I truly believe that one of the main messages of the Cross is that Jesus triumphed over death. He died that we might live. He redeems us from the grave.

As I understand things, Adam and Eve were not meant to die. It was sin and disobedience that caused death to rain. Jesus redeemed us from the curse of sin which was death. Through Christ, we no longer have to fear or experience death. We may die physically but spiritually we live forever to enjoy the fruits of his kingdom.

As we know, the Kingdom of God is an everlasting kingdom where death and sorrow have been banished. Apparently it is an amazing place according to one lady who was taken there by the Lord for a brief visit. She was an avid gardener and loved cultivating flowers. Whilst in heaven she thought about her flowers and in an instant, as far as her eye could see was flowers of every kind.

 

[Tong2020]

Christophany said: ↑
Its pretty clear from those passage Salvation is from the Lord and He has chosen who He will save from before the foundation of the world.

God, untouched or obstructed by time, may know who is to be saved, but we do not. We may know in this moment that we are walking with Him, but we do not know what we will be doing at the end of our course.

God having foreknowledge does not take away the truth that salvation of mankind belongs to God and is according to His will, purpose, pleasure and glory. Salvation of mankind is never spoken of in scriptures as belonging to man nor according to man's will.

Mankind's not having foreknowledge also does not take away the truth that salvation of mankind belongs to God and is according to His will, purpose, pleasure and glory. What that could however make us realize is that, it gives the Christian the understanding that his salvation is by God and secured until the end by God, Him who have foreknowledge of the future, and Him who is able to keep the Christian until the end.

With regards the salvation of mankind, as scriptures have it, it is God who saves, and it is God who have chosen. And as scriptures have it, man, by their own will and of themselves, have been shown to ever and always fall short of the glory of God, for God had seen of mankind, that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. God even said of man "the imagination of man’s heart is evil from his youth". God is Him who can save and indeed saves mankind, not because of anything else, but because that is His will, purpose, pleasure and glory, out of His love for mankind and who alone accomplishes it according to His wisdom.

Tong
R1042

 

[Tong2020]

No such uncertainty? Which man was so certain that he could and would never fail? Paul recognized his frailty as a man and fought to do what? Consider what he writes here:

"I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway." I Cor 9:26-27

Perhaps, if only one's salvation rest in the ability of man. But thanks be to God that such is not the case.

Tong
R1043

 

[Episkopos]

There is more to salvation than just having been saved at one time. A person who is saved from drowning does not automatically learn how to swim. And being saved once from drowning doesn't mean that person will not die from drowning later.

So then part of salvation is leaning how to swim so that we don't drown.

Save a man once from drowning and he will continue to need saving. Teach a man to swim and he will be preserved...and maybe even save others.

Salvation is just as much about preservation as it is about a one time rescue. Deliverance is also part of salvation.

And finally we are not saved for OUR purpose...but for God's purpose. And that is going to look very different from they who seek to save their own lives with their own self-interest.

 

[Tong2020]

1 Cor 15:1-9,14
Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.

I noticed this verse and one little word that I felt was quite significant. That word is "if."

You are saved by the gospel IF you hold fast to the word which Paul preached to them. If you DON'T hold fast, are you then in danger of losing your salvation?

It's really not that the Christians are saved on the condition that he hold fast the gospel preached to them, for we know that when they first believed and through which they were saved, such condition was not there. How then would after their believing through which they were saved, be now a condition to be saved?

If one will read carefully the passage, the part which says "if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain." is not a condition for salvation, but rather, a condition that tells whether or not their believing the gospel preached to them at the beginning, is sincere and true, or not.

So, to the question "If you DON'T hold fast, are you then in danger of losing your salvation?", my answer will be a NO. For if one don't hold fast, it only shows that his believing in the beginning was not really sincere and true, for then it could be said that there was no faith in the beginning, as such is a believing in vain. Thus, there is no salvation to lose.

Tong
R1044

 

[VictoryinJesus]

To become unsaved after meeting Jesus and receiving the Holy Ghost a person has to purposely disobey God. We really have power even if we don't even think about it when we do use it. We have to ignore or neglect or suppress that power, the Holy Spirit in us, to do those things.

Once you really have met the Master and really walked with Him for some length of time going away from Him is not going to be an accidental occurrence. But, if a person little by little over time begins to goes against what he knows is right before God, he may find himself in a place eventually where there is no room or time for repentance. Or he will actually fall out of love with Jesus and then God will send him a delusion and he will believe he is OK, when he is not. These are hypothetical situations which I don't like to detail because I am not God and really am unable to accurately and fairly judge. Fortunately for everyone I am not to be their ultimate judge in the things of God. But too many people like to take hold of a place where they never have to worry about falling or turning away from God. In this natural span of years allotted to us, I don't believe there is such a place. If we really love God and daily work on loving Him more, I do not believe we will ever have a problem with backsliding.

this is where we disagree and I’m not saying I’m right. But if you are right, then I’m in trouble. Isaiah 60:18-21 Violence shall no more be heard in thy land, wasting nor destruction within thy borders; but thou shalt call thy walls Salvation, and thy gates Praise. [19] The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the Lord shall be unto thee an everlasting light, (Ephesians 5:14)and thy God thy glory. [20]
(Ephesians 4:26) Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the Lord shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended. [21] Thy people also shall be all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified.

How much flesh falls away and departs from the Living God?
John 8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.

 

[Marymog]

The idea was posted by a friend as we see here:
@bbyrd009

bbyrd009 said: ↑
what does 'saved' even mean?" might be another interesting avenue

Some perhaps already have an idea as to where I am on this in the moment. I may allow a few to post before I get my feet wet...

As an aside:
These days this old body chills easily. I sit here at my computer typing and my fingers sometimes get so cold they hurt. I have to stop and massage them to get the circulation and hopefully the warmth back into them

It is summer here in Oklahoma, even this thus far mild summer, but my wife has to have the AC going so as not to overheat. [opposites attract...LOL]. I, on the other hand, usually have to put on a light jacket or sweater to avoid the chill of that same AC. Help us Lord...

And now back to the OP at hand with regard to "saved"!

Good Morning!

Saved is past tense. That means it has already happened.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Are we consuming mammon or God... or are we trying to consume them both in order to retain/obtain the best of both worlds: The world of the old man and the world of the new man?

concerning mammon: (imo) there is hope in Luke 16:9 And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when ye fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations.
Luke 16:9 Lexicon: "And I say to you, make friends for yourselves by means of the wealth of unrighteousness, so that when it fails, they will receive you into the eternal dwellings.

Who are ‘that, when you fail’ they may receive you into everlasting habitations? What is not dissolved 2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

Point is ‘that, when you fail’ 1 Corinthians 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.


make friends with
μαμωνᾶ
(mamōna) 3126: riches of Aramaic origin
of unrighteousness, ἀδικίας
(adikias) 93: injustice, unrighteousness

that when it fail...

 

[Waiting on him]

Good Morning!

Saved is past tense. That means it has already happened.

Big difference from gettin yourself saved and becoming a son.

 

[icxn]

Point is ‘that, when you fail’ 1 Corinthians 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Isn't the point to make friends by distributing charitably the riches (mammon) that we undeservingly (hence unrighteous mammon) received from God, before we die (fail) or before we waste it (i.e. when it fails)?

 

[Rocky Wiley]

Getting saved is asking Jesus to save you and then find the way to live for him. I ask Jesus in 1985 and He put a desire in my heart to find a church to guide me.
I was 45 years old at that time, but the best time is 6 or 7 years old. I have seen all six of my grandchildren repent and be baptized at that time. If one thinks that is too early they are wrong, for the proof is all six of my grandchildren from 12 to 18 today, are still living for God. It is not what they say that proves it, it is their life style in living that proves it.

Mat 19:13 Then were there brought unto him little children, that he should put his hands on them, and pray: and the disciples rebuked them.
Mat 19:14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 19:15 And he laid his hands on them, and departed thence.

Sorry for just jumping in, I will go back and read the other posts.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Isn't the point to make friends by distributing charitably the riches (mammon) that we undeservingly (hence unrighteous mammon) received from God, before we die (fail) or before we waste it (i.e. when it fails)?

maybe. But there seems to be a fine line between the son who wasted his living yet was found. And the one who pouted when that which was lost was received again, after wasting all he had on riotous living. (Luke 15:26-32 ...And he answering said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends: [30] But as soon as this thy son was come, which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf. [31] And he said unto him, Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine. [32] It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.

restored and reconciled to the Father. Luke 16:11 If therefore ye have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches ?


Hebrews 10:32-35 But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions; [33] Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used. [34] For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance. [35] Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.

 

[icxn]

maybe. But there seems to be a fine line between the son who wasted his living yet was found. And the one who pouted when that which was lost was received again, after wasting all he had on riotous living.

To the rich (the manager as well as the son who stayed), God gave charity as a path to salvation and to the prodigal the path of repentance. The two are not in opposition. They are the appropriate medicine that God provided as a remedy to whatever spiritual sickness might afflict us: greed, envy, prodigality...

Those who accept the spoiling of their goods practice involuntary charity, which is probably the greatest form of charity.

 

[Waiting on him]

To the rich (the manager as well as the son who stayed), God gave charity as a path to salvation and to the prodigal the path of repentance. The two are not in opposition. They are the appropriate medicine that God provided as a remedy to whatever spiritual sickness might afflict us: greed, envy, prodigality...

Those who accept the spoiling of their goods practice involuntary charity, which is probably the greatest form of charity.

Revelation 2:27 KJV
[27] And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

 

[amadeus]

If I was this kind of father to my children I would hope someone would shoot me in the head.

Do children ever disobey their natural fathers? Do natural fathers ever chastise their natural children? Who is our father, spiritually? And God... who are His sons? Are none of His sons ever cut off?

"And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death." Ex 21:15

"And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death." Ex 21:17

"Honour thy father and thy mother, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee; that thy days may be prolonged, and that it may go well with thee, in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee." Deut 5:16

"If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:
Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;
And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear." Deut 21:18-21

"For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?" Heb 12:6-9

"Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." John 8:41-44

 

[amadeus]

Salvation is a Process
The road to God’s Kingdom is often bumpy and sometimes hazardous, but it leads to the pearl of great price. No effort is too great for such a glorious treasure. Our role in the process of salvation consists of four steps:

Salvation is a Process

How Are We Saved? - Theology - Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America

--------------------

I wish we could get cold here with an air conditioner, all we have is an water cooler in So Cal with 110 heat and 30 percent humidity.

When I lived as a child just south of San Jose, California with my mother, I used to spend summers with my father in Oklahoma. None of my family in Oklahoma had AC in those days... only water coolers. I remember playing outside in the humid heat and then coming into the house and sitting on the floor by that water cooler. It felt pretty good under the circumstances.