Grace vs Legalism

[Behold]

Why are we not to pray for someone who has committed a sin unto death, and what is the sin unto death?

The sin unto death.

there are a few ways to understand this sin.. and verse.

Notice that the verse says of it......"THE sin"...... unto death.
So, when you have a "THE", you have something special to follow.
Such as "a" Cross, vs THE Cross.
or "a" Spirit, vs THE Spirit

So, "THE sin unto death", can be taught this way and it not error..... 1.) If you are a Christ Rejector until the day you DIE, then you have committed "THE SIN, (the only one that sends you to hell)......and you committed it, unto your death.
So, you died committing Christ Rejection, which is THE SIN of SINs.....its the one that can't be forgiven, so its "THE" sin, among all other sins.


Or you can teach "the sin unto death" this way, and its not error.

2.) There is a sin that follows some after they die. Its "THE sin". and if you commit that one, you have brought eternal damnation on yourself.
John 3:36.

So, "death" in that verse would not be earthly physical, but it would be The 2nd Death, and there is THE Sin that will cause you to have the 2nd Death, and this sin follows you after you are physically dead.

 

[Behold]

if they turn to another god and reject Christ in whom they once believed, it is impossible to turn them back.

Lots of difficulty with the way you are trying to think about this verse..
To begin with, if a person is born again, that settles their eternity, as God settled it with the Blood of Jesus.
So, all wrong thoughts you have about ...."what if a person does that, what if a person does this, what if a person becomes a Buddhist and a Scientologist after they are born again".
Well, they are then a buddhist and a scientologist who is born again.
"BORN AGAIN" is why we go to heaven.......not because we dont do certain things or make certain willful mistakes.
If you can ever realize that God's Salvation is not controlled by you, then you will finally understand GRACE.

Also, to be "enlightened" is not to be born again.

Every Sunday in many churches, the Pastor talks about Jesus and gives the Gospel, and unbelievers = know its true.
The Devil knows its true.
So, being "enlightened" is to "come to the knowledge of the Truth".....To see it, and understand it, but, that is not how you are born again.
You have to take the next STEP OF FAITH...
You have to go from being enlightened and coming to the knowledge of the Truth, into actually having FAITH In Christ.
So, these unsaved Hebrews, ... just like their ELDERS, KNEW Yeshua was Messiah, but they were jealous and envious and this drove their hatred which kept them from RECEIVING their Messiah by faith.

 

[CharismaticLady]

What then is your new thought?

What the unpardonable sin could be against the Spirit. It is by someone who already was born again, and switched to a different god or no god at all. They sinned against the Holy Spirit already in them.

 

[marks]

The unpardonable sin, but by someone who already was born again, and switched to a different god. They sinned against the Holy Spirit already in them.

Where do you find that in the Bible?

 

[CharismaticLady]

Where do you find that in the Bible?

Hebrews 6 and 10, and 2 Peter 3

 

[Behold]

The unpardonable sin, but by someone who already was born again, and switched to a different god. They sinned against the Holy Spirit already in them.

The unpardonable sin is only committed before you are born again.
Its the sin of UNBELIEF.....its not the sin of stupidity or apostacy that you can commit and yet you are born again.

If a person dies a Christ Rejector, they have died UNPARDONED......or as Jesus says...."you have died in your SINS".
ONLY an unbeliever can commit this sin.
And the worst way you can commit it is to be a WILLFUL UNBELIEVER< as this person is enlightened, they KNOW the truth, but refuse it.

= Unsaved Hebrews "if we sin WILLFULLY"< Paul is telling them about what THEY are doing.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

-
The reality is........The Blood of Christ has already cleansed our Sin.....all of it.....>Tomorrow's included.
If you don't understand this, and you have been falsely taught that your sin till the Cross is forgiven, and you then get God to take care of the new ones, by repenting, ... = you have been mislead and are practicing a waste of your time.

If you'll take your NT and turn to Colossians 2:13 AND THEN Romans 4:8, you will find an amazing discovery that, if you will believe it, will transform your Life in Christ.

Colossians 2:13 ...Paul teaches you that ALL your sin is gone, forgiven, remitted, redeemed, by Christ on the Cross.
Roman 4:8 Paul then confirms that God does not ever again, hold you accountable for your sin, in eternity.
He can't, as all your sin, ALL OF IT, Paul just told you is taken care of by Jesus on the Cross as the Blood Atonement.
So, your sin is gone, and when you are confessing and repenting of what is not being charged to you, you are wasting your Christian Life.
God does not re-clean you, every time you mess up and tell Him you are sorry.
He has already CLEANED you with the Blood of Jesus, 2000 yrs ago.
Now, when you can SEE THIS, you have taken your first real steps inside the Grace of God, as Right Believing.

Romans 5:20 "Where SIN abounds...Grace moreso Abounds".... = means....when you sin, (works of the Flesh ) after you are saved, the Blood Atonement has already paid for that one ALSO.... It means that when you sin a year from now, on a Monday morning, just before you come here to argue about OSAS, and you sin again (works of the Flesh)....THE CROSS has already taken care of that one also.
Realize the revelation that something that happened 2000+ years ago on a CROSS, is STILL your Salvation 20 yrs from NOW !
Saint, if God didnt take care of all your sin when you were saved, you'd be hell bound the same day you were born again.
You can't save yourself, and you can't keep yourself CLEAN.
You have to TRUST IN CHRIST at some point, with real Faith, so that your walk of faith is inside the Grace of God, trusting in CHRIST ALONE to KEEP YOU SAVED.
Until you can see this, and start to exist there in your MIND, then you will live outside the understanding of the Grace of God and continue to exist as a confessing repenting Discipleship FAILURE.

If a Legalist-Heretic.... could actually comprehend that you can't out-sin the BLOOD of CHRIST, that this blood has actively and permanently SOLVED your "sin" issue, then what a happy Christian they would be, as then they could actually Trust Christ totally., and not just partly.
This is why Jesus died for you. Its what He's doing on the Cross. He is Paying for (cleansing) our sin, from us, by dying FOR IT ALL.
And He DID.

Amazing how many people who claim to be Christians can't even begin to comprehend SALVATION.
Legalists don't understand that the CROSS is a completed work (Blood Atonement), so, they reach into the bible with eyes closed and spiritual mind locked.... and never care to learn or realize that not every verse is aimed at a born again believer.

Now, for the sake of those of you who have not been taught anything about your NT,.... Scriptures in the NT, and OT< are sometimes literal, sometimes symbolic, and sometimes allegorical....in meaning.
For example, "all who call on the name of Jesus, shall be SAVED"...is literal.
But, "take this cup, as its the blood of the New Covenant".. this can't be LITERAL, as Jesus's Blood is still in HIS BODY, when He's drinking the cup.

See it? ?

A legalist does not understand that "where there is no law, there is no transgression".....as "Christ has ABOLISHED THE LAW" is in the NT, reader. Ephesians 2:15
A legalist, reads Romans 4:8, where they are told that God does not hold them accountable, for sin...(impute)(charge).... and they just foolishly ignore this and run back to Hebrews, a book-letter not written to the CHURCH, but to UNSAVED JEWS..."HEBREWS"... and then they get lost in it and stay lost in it.

Ask why LEGALIST,.. Ask WHY does God not hold you accountable, in Eternity, for your sin that you do tomorrow and next week.

A.) Because God already held Jesus accountable on the CROSS for them ALL.
Understand?.... as this is so so important for you to understand.

A Legalist will take a verse out of Matthew, given before Jesus was on the Cross, that is not NT doctrine for the Blood Bought Redeemed Church, and use this verse out of context to prove to themselves they can "lose it"=(Their Salvation)
A Legalist thinks they are in Christ, then fall out of Christ when they sin, and if they confess = do penance or whatever other deeds they can come up with, they get back INTO Christ.
However, Christ has contradicted you, as He said "I will never leave you or forsake you"...so, "Christ in you, the hope of Glory", is a fact, that you need to start believing.

A Legalist actually believes they are saved untill they sin, then confess, and are saved again, ... as if Salvation is a type of Yo-Yo, of sinning confessing, sinning confessing, sinning confessing.....up down, up down in Christ out of Christ, in Christ, out of Christ.,. kinda crazy, isn't it?
And all of this confusion and chaos is not only the misunderstanding the Blood Atonement, its also not giving FULL Credit DUE to the finished work of Jesus on the Cross.... and that is the REAL issue, for the Legalist - Heretic.
Don't be that person.

Dare I post in this thread???

I have NOT read all 54 pages of this thread. Just want to start off with this disclaimer. But I'd like to share some things about this topic that the Lord showed me years ago.

It seems that grace and legalism are opposites, but they really aren't. The opposite of legalism is license. Legalism is man's way of trying to be righteous before God by keeping the Law. License is man thumbing his nose at the law. Both of these are lived out BY THE FLESH. Look at what Paul said to the Galatians:

Gal 3:1-5--You foolish Galatians! Who has hypnotized you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was vividly portrayed as crucified? I only want to learn this from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now going to be made complete by the flesh? Did you suffer so much for nothing — if in fact it was for nothing? So then, does God supply you with the Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law or by hearing with faith?

Paul is saying that the Galatians began their Christian walk with the Spirit (when they were saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ). He calls them foolish because they believed that they could continue their Christian walk by trying to keep the law. They were not endeavoring to finish in the same way they began--by grace through faith with the Spirit.

So...legalism and license are lived out according to the flesh. Grace is lived out according to the Spirit.
.

 

[justbyfaith]

What would happen if we stuck to Scriptural terms?

The problem I have when discussing things in this detail using non-Scriptural terminology, is, what do they mean exactly? Using the Biblical terms helps us to stay with the Biblical understandings, for instance.

And even using Biblical terminology doesn't always keep us safe, we need to be clear how we use it. For instance Body and Flesh are used for the same thing, our natural life in this world as one born in the biological line from Adam, that is, our material participation in Humanity, our body, or flesh. Many have come to use "flesh" as something different from our body, which results in erroneous understandings sometimes.

Regarding 1 John 1, unless we realize that John is talking about the regenerate and the non-regenerate, and how we receive our reconciliation, being forgiven and cleansed, then it will result in idea that conflict with other passages.

But the correct understandings bring harmony within them all.

Much love!

I find that my understanding of 1 John 1:8 does not bring conflict of understanding with other passages.

 

[Behold]

Hebrews 6 and 2 Peter 3

Christ rejection is not found in those verses.
Maybe you should double check.
The Unpardonable sin is Christ Rejection, till death.

 

[Behold]

I find that my understanding of 1 John 1:8 does not bring conflict of understanding with other passages.

The conflict it brings is within and regarding your lack of understanding of the Blood Atonement.
The way you wrongly understand 1 John , is why you can't believe Colossians 2:13 or Romans 4:8

If you will let go of trying to keep yourself saved, your "indwelling sin issue", that really isn't, will be taken care of by Right Believing.
If you will stop trying to have faith in your Faith to keep you saved, and exert instead faith in CHRIST to get you to heaven, and nothing else, you will resolve your spiritual issues.
When this happens, your sin consciousness will fade, and your discipleship that is in bondage to your self righteousness that is causing you to keep sinning and repenting, will stop.

 

[Behold]

foolish because they believed that they could continue their Christian walk by trying to keep the law
.

Welcome aboard.

Take it further.
Tell people when you teach this verse that Paul said those foolish Galatians (now legalists) were BEWITCHED.
They were MIND BLINDED by deceptive spiritual LIARS.
"WHO has bewitched you".... Paul asks them.
= THE FALSE TEACHERS OF LEGALISM who twist the truth of Grace as Given as a Gift, into the lie of "license to sin".
In other words, these Liars, they pervert the mind of a believer.....they subvert it, by causing them to SEE GRACE.. when taught correctly as "license".
So, JUDE says, that these lying teachers, replaced the correct understand of Grace, with the LIE that Grace... when taught correctly,... is "LICENSE or Licentiousness"

Legalists, or those who have "bewitched" real believers, do it, by subverting the Truth of Grace INTO the false ("bewitched") idea that Grace is LICENSE to SIN, when it is taught as God actually provides it.

 

[marks]

Hebrews 6 and 10, and 2 Peter 3

Exegetically, I meant. Sorry!

 

[marks]

I find that my understanding of 1 John 1:8 does not bring conflict of understanding with other passages.

Though you believe that we may be born again, and then lost?

Much love!

 

[marks]

If you will stop trying to have faith in your Faith to keep you saved, and exert instead faith in CHRIST

Good way to put it, having faith in "faith" instead of faith in Christ.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Dare I post in this thread???

Jump on in! Did you bring your armor?

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Jump on in! Did you bring your armor?

I ALWAYS have my armor on, lol!

 

[justbyfaith]

We keep going in circles, I keep thinking at the end of it all we think the same things.

Indwelling sin . . . the old man of flesh, who is the sinner, who is the person we were before we were born again, the corrupt body we live in, That's the closest I come to "indwelling sin". Sin dwells in my flesh body. I also dwell in my flesh body, but I don't dwell in sin, and sin does not dwell in me.

I hope that clarifies!

Much love!

In Romans 7:18 Paul declares that he is his flesh...For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) dwelleth no good thing...

Stop trying to replace New Testament Truth with Old Testament Verses.

See 2 Timothy 3:16. Even the Old Testament is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in righteousness.

So, all wrong thoughts you have about ...."what if a person does that, what if a person does this, what if a person becomes a Buddhist and a Scientologist after they are born again".
Well, they are then a buddhist and a scientologist who is born again.

What if, in becoming a scientologist or buddhist, they become a Cross-denier and Christ-rejecter?

The conflict it brings is within and regarding your lack of understanding of the Blood Atonement.

I have no lack of understanding about the blood atonement.

The way you wrongly understand 1 John , is why you can't believe Colossians 2:13 or Romans 4:8

I believe in those verses with all of my heart.

If you will stop trying to have faith in your Faith to keep you saved, and exert instead faith in CHRIST to get you to heaven,

My faith is wholly and completely in Christ and what He did for me on the Cross, to get me into heaven.

 

[justbyfaith]

Though you believe that we may be born again, and then lost?

Much love!

Not born again, and then lost...but that we can have faith, and thus be saved temporarily, and then be lost, if we fall away.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Welcome aboard.

Thank you! It's not often that I'm welcomed into a thread, lol.

Take it further.
Tell people when you teach this verse that Paul said those foolish Galatians (now legalists) were BEWITCHED.
They were MIND BLINDED by deceptive spiritual LIARS.
"WHO has bewitched you".... Paul asks them.
= THE FALSE TEACHERS OF LEGALISM who twist the truth of Grace as Given as a Gift, into the lie of "license to sin".
In other words, these Liars, they pervert the mind of a believer.....they subvert it, by causing them to SEE GRACE.. when taught correctly as "license".
So, JUDE says, that these lying teachers, replaced the correct understand of Grace, with the LIE that Grace... when taught correctly,... is "LICENSE or Licentiousness"

I also believe that Paul asked the Galatians who had "bewitched" them because of the other problem he was addressing in this epistle. Because many of the converts in that area had been in bondage to pagan gods and practices (including witchcraft and sorcery), Paul used this very strong language.

The Galatians were dealing with a double whammy. The Gentile converts had grown up immersed in the idolatry of paganism; the Jewish converts had grown up immersed in the Law. So, while the new Christians were learning to live as new creations in Christ, Judaizers were insisting on circumcision. Paul warns the Gentiles not to go back into bondage to the elemental forces of the world and not to place themselves in bondage under the Law.

Gal 4:8-11--But in the past, when you didn’t know God, you were enslaved to things that by nature are not gods. But now, since you know God, or rather have become known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and bankrupt elemental forces? Do you want to be enslaved to them all over again? You observe special days, months, seasons, and years. I am fearful for you, that perhaps my labor for you has been wasted.

 

[justbyfaith]

Welcome aboard.

Take it further.
Tell people when you teach this verse that Paul said those foolish Galatians (now legalists) were BEWITCHED.
They were MIND BLINDED by deceptive spiritual LIARS.
"WHO has bewitched you".... Paul asks them.
= THE FALSE TEACHERS OF LEGALISM who twist the truth of Grace as Given as a Gift, into the lie of "license to sin".
In other words, these Liars, they pervert the mind of a believer.....they subvert it, by causing them to SEE GRACE.. when taught correctly as "license".
So, JUDE says, that these lying teachers, replaced the correct understand of Grace, with the LIE that Grace... when taught correctly,... is "LICENSE or Licentiousness"

Legalists, or those who have "bewitched" real believers, do it, by subverting the Truth of Grace INTO the false ("bewitched") idea that Grace is LICENSE to SIN, when it is taught as God actually provides it.

The false teachers actually teach that grace is a license for immorality...that grace means you can do whatever you want...even if what you want is to do the ungodly thing.

While the true grace of God is found in 1 Peter 5:10-12 (kjv). It means that after you have suffered a while, the Lord will make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, and settle you.

It does indeed mean that there is no more condemnation from the law. However, real grace, when applied, teaches us to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts. Those who are under the New Covenant are governed by the law from the inside (Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6; Romans 5:5, Galatians 5:22-23); while they are no longer condemned by it from the outside in any case where they might blow it (Romans 6:14, Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19, Romans 7:6, Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14, hebrews 7:18-19).