The Basis of Salvation

[CadyandZoe]

Absolutely, per John 320:21-23, Matt. 16:19, Matt. 18:15-18 and John 16:12-15.

So then. You admit yourself to be a sinner, yes? Most Christians do. I do. In the next age we want to be made free of sin. Yes? How do you suppose God is going to bless you and me with sinlessness? Coercion?

 

[CadyandZoe]

Being called and chosen does NOT require that I accept.
Anyway - until we get past "Epignosis" - we're at a standstill.

Epignosis is the death knell for OSAS . .

We have moved beyond Epignosis. If we haven't that is your decision. The choice to know the truth is yours. The choice to have full knowledge is yours.

In Peter's view, being called and chosen means something much stronger than you seem to realize. Maybe you should allow him to teach you what he wants to teach you?

 

[Cooper]

We have moved beyond Epignosis. If we haven't that is your decision. The choice to know the truth is yours. The choice to have full knowledge is yours.

In Peter's view, being called and chosen means something much stronger than you seem to realize. Maybe you should allow him to teach you what he wants to teach you?

Seeing as Epignosis means the precise and correct knowledge; used in the N. T. of the knowledge of things ethical and divine: we all have a long way to go.

 

[Cooper]

ANY situation where we are in concert with the will of God - and it was NOT our choice is coercion.

If you are married - and you lavish your wife with gifts in order to stay with you - that's NOT love. SHE needs to make the conscious decision to stay with you. That's the only REAL love.
God doesn't BRIBE us to stay with Him - and until we are made perfect in Heaven - we are not in perfect union with His will because of our proclivity toward sin.

Those in Heaven ARE in perfect union with His will.
We're still BEING sanctified.

In agreement with you, let me illustrate by saying my dog loves me, not because I give him presents, I don't. I love God in the same way, partly because He first loved me, but also for what he has done for me throughout my entire life, and for His great gift of salvation, for which I thank him from the bottom of my heart. To my mind, my dogs love for me, and my love for God is perfect love, and I know that if I was to chastise my dog, he would still love me. He would lick my hand bless him. I hope I have that same perfect love for God, but I don't feel like I want to be tested right now.
.

 

[Behold]

Lol....Paul didn’t teach you that. What you are spouting is your interpretation of Paul. Sooooooo Seriously....from whom did you learn what you are teaching? Or are you self taught?

Only a Catholic would deny that Paul teaches "justification by Faith".

 

[BreadOfLife]

We have moved beyond Epignosis. If we haven't that is your decision. The choice to know the truth is yours. The choice to have full knowledge is yours.

In Peter's view, being called and chosen means something much stronger than you seem to realize. Maybe you should allow him to teach you what he wants to teach you?

If you've "moved beyond" Epignosis - then you are ignoring the Word of God.

It's not up to YOU to throw out words you don't agree with.

 

[CadyandZoe]

If you've "moved beyond" Epignosis - then you are ignoring the Word of God.

It's not up to YOU to throw out words you don't agree with.

I haven't thrown them out. I showed you that your conclusions about the significance of epignosis are not valid. I was trying to help you make contact with the rest of scripture. But you seem stuck on a few verses. I'm sorry we can move beyond this point. I thought maybe.

 

[Cooper]

This isn't going very far very fast, so here we are : -

God’s plan of salvation for mankind.
Step 1: is to believe Jesus Christ is the eternal God, and that our gift of eternal salvation was gained by His vicarious resurrection that conquered Satan and death.

Step 2: The risen Christ, our advocate now pleads on our behalf. “So now, if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 1Jn 2:1., who is making intercession for us. Rom 8:34; Rom 11:2; Heb 7:25 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 1Ti 2:5

Step 3: Is the Judgement, when we shall have to answer for our own sins.
If at anytime we deny Christ or His finished work on the cross, our salvation is in peril,“Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father; everyone who confesses the Son has the Father also. 1Jn 2:22-23” for “it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, since on their own they are crucifying again the Son of God and are holding him up to contempt. (Heb 6:4-6)

About those who wander astray we read:
Our Saviour, Jesus Christ the Good Shepherd will seek those who have wandered away from the fold, but the rebellious ones, who perhaps with the best of intentions, like the Galatians who went back to a work based salvation and the keeping of Old Testament festivals etc., so denying Christ’s redeeming work on the cross, will find their life with Jesus is finished. (Gal 5:4)

Finally, the Crown of Righteousness is not ours until we:
have fought the good fight, have finished the race, and have kept the faith. From now on there is reserved for us the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will give us on that day, and to all who have longed for his appearing. (2Ti 4:7-8)
.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I haven't thrown them out. I showed you that your conclusions about the significance of epignosis are not valid. I was trying to help you make contact with the rest of scripture. But you seem stuck on a few verses. I'm sorry we can move beyond this point. I thought maybe.

HOW did you show me that??

The entire crux of these 2 passages is the Greek term, "Epignosis".
As I explained to you - ONLY a truly born again Christian has Epignosis of Christ. A non-believer or a casual "dabbler" doesn't have it.

Remember - Epignosis is a FULL, experiential and relational knowledge - NOT just a mental or emotional assent (oida/gnosis).
Only a truly converted person possesses this - so your dodging of this term only shows that you can't deal with it.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Only a Catholic would deny that Paul teaches "justification by Faith".

CORRECTION:
Only a Catholic would recognize that "Faith" is FAR more that just "belief".

Remember, son - even the DEMONS believe in the truths about God (James 2:19).
If that's all YOU do - then you're no better off than they are . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

So then. You admit yourself to be a sinner, yes? Most Christians do. I do. In the next age we want to be made free of sin. Yes? How do you suppose God is going to bless you and me with sinlessness? Coercion?

You asked me if I confess my sins to a priest - then you respond with this?
Not sure where you're going with this . . .

 

[Marymog]

Only a Catholic would deny that Paul teaches "justification by Faith".

Hi Behold,

I never said that Paul didn’t teach Justification by Faith.....How did you come to that conclusion???


You DODGED my question. Who teaches you these things? Or are you self taught?

 

[Marymog]

Calvin is not worth discussing.
similar to the "holy father".
Both are heretics, needing public attention.
Ignore them both, is the remedy.

Behold,
Let’s get serious for once instead of being so dramatic. Are you suggesting that everything YOU write on here IS worth discussing? YOU are not a heretic? We shouldn’t ignore YOU because...............????

Curious Mary

 

[CadyandZoe]

You asked me if I confess my sins to a priest - then you respond with this?
Not sure where you're going with this . . .

I'm sorry, I thought we were having a conversation. I was trying to get you to see that we are not saved by self-effort.

 

[CadyandZoe]

HOW did you show me that??

The entire crux of these 2 passages is the Greek term, "Epignosis".
As I explained to you - ONLY a truly born again Christian has Epignosis of Christ. A non-believer or a casual "dabbler" doesn't have it.

Remember - Epignosis is a FULL, experiential and relational knowledge - NOT just a mental or emotional assent (oida/gnosis).
Only a truly converted person possesses this - so your dodging of this term only shows that you can't deal with it.

Okay, let's talk about Hebrews 10. Where in Hebrews 10 does Paul make YOUR point, that it is possible for a born-again person to walk away and lose his salvation? I don't see that anywhere in the text.

What I see is Paul's strong exhortation to persevere in the faith. What I don't see, are examples of people who did not take his advice.

 

[Cooper]

Okay, let's talk about Hebrews 10. Where in Hebrews 10 does Paul make YOUR point, that it is possible for a born-again person to walk away and lose his salvation? I don't see that anywhere in the text.

What I see is Paul's strong exhortation to persevere in the faith. What I don't see, are examples of people who did not take his advice.

Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. (Hebrews 10:38 KJV)

My Soul: This is God speaking about those who draw back. Notice, in the ASV (clicky) we are told these who turn back are righteous already.

The KJV uses the word "just" meaning justified, and you have to be saved in order to be justified.
.

 

[Behold]

CORRECTION:
O.

Only the Catholic Doctrine teaches that "grace thru faith" if believed as Paul teaches is, is "cursed of God".
So, your cult of mary, revokes the Gospel of the Grace of God as taught by Paul , and defines anyone who "by faith alone" believes that God redeems them, ...Your cult teaches that these same are "anathema".

You yourself believed that Water Baptism is how God saved you.
Your phony bible teaches in John 3, that a person is "born again OF/by WATER""
So, your cult of mary bible is a Cross rejecting Lie.

 

[Cooper]

Only the Catholic Doctrine teaches that "grace thru faith" if believed as Paul teaches is, is "cursed of God".
So, your cult of mary, revokes the Gospel of the Grace of God as taught by Paul , and defines anyone who "by faith alone" believes that God redeems them, ...Your cult teaches that these same are "anathema".

You yourself believed that Water Baptism is how God saved you.
Your phony bible teaches in John 3, that a person is "born again OF/by WATER""
So, your cult of mary bible is a Cross rejecting Lie.

And, sprinkling a baby never saved anyone.
.

 

[Behold]

And, sprinkling a baby never saved anyone.
.

The catholic bible teaches that salvation is : "water regeneration".
This is why catholics are obsessed with water.

"Born again by/of water".. is how the Catholic bible explains the cult of mary's version of Salvation.

When we realize that God gave His own blood to save us, while the catholics teach that the city water supply is the atonement..

See the problem?
They dont.

 

[Cooper]

The catholic bible teaches that salvation is : "water regeneration".
This is why catholics are obsessed with water.

"Born again by/of water".. is how the Catholic bible explains the cult of mary's version of Salvation.

When we realize that God gave His own blood to save us, while the catholics teach that the city water supply is the atonement..

See the problem?
They dont.

Dear me.....