Do Catholics Talk to Dead People?

[BreadOfLife]

No it is not wrong.
And you should have reread the meaning without a preconceived understanding.

I am Fully aware PRAY can be used to make a Formal Request to a Court, or government agency that holds a document an individual may wish to see or have a copy thereof,

You are way overboard, outside the parameter, if you think ... hey waaasup? Is an example of PRAYING a Humble question.

That is a question...without intent of humbleness, exalting, revering, respect, adoration ... or the likes thereof.

When you call upon Mary...you call out her Name...you call out to her in humble reverence and adoration. Maybe have bowed your head, or on your knees...You ARE PRAYING to her, that she be a deliverer TO God, of your Request.

Why you do Not have communication Directly with God, is a mystery... I have never heard a Catholic...Explain.

How you Bodily communicate, talking with your body's mouth... To an others Living soul, whose Body is Dead...
Is another mystery...I have never heard a Catholic...Explain.

Actually, what you're saying is a flat-out LIE.

First of all - a question or request or plea for ANYTHING (information, favors, etc.) is considered "Praying".
So, "Wassup?" IS a prayer.

Secondly - just because we request Mary or any other saint to pray for us in a humble manner doesn't mean we are "adoring" them.
Apparently, you didn't READ the whole definition:
intransitive verb
1: to make a request in a humble manner

Finally - WHO said we don't pray to God directly just because we ask others to pray FOR us? That is an asinine assumption.
Protestants ask people to pray for them ALL the time - and they STILL pray to God.

Next time - get your facts straight . . .

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Many words in Scripture require a long deep study ... and then to use the study to put a verse in context of The understanding...
According to man...
Or
According to God.

For example; words like;
Life, Death, Dead, Spirit, Soul, Man...etc.

Dead- means:
.. was alive and is no longer alive

Dead- means:
.."was or is" Alive but not with God

Dead- means:
.."was or is" Alive but, "Accounted" Dead,
BY God.

Soul- means:
.. Gods Breath of Life.

Soul- means:
.. Gods Breath of Life, Once given a man, activates (brings to Life), the man's Life.
(Here...man means Form/Body
(Here...man's Life means Blood

Soul- means:
.. the identity ... Name of man, so Also is the Soul the same Name as the man is Named.

Soul- is thus used to identify, call, understand...a Body of a man and Soul of a man--- is exclusive to ONE Individual man.

Soul- is the senses of a man activated IN the Body of a Man...
Meaning-
"A Body", without a Soul...is a Body that can not:
Hear, see, talk, touch/feel sensation, taste...

When Life ... of a Man (blood) STOPS flowing, the heart stops beating, (moving the blood), the organs and cells inside the body stop receiving oxygen and nutrients (from the Blood)...and the Body Dies.

* The "Living soul", IS Living ...By the Power of Gods Breath"...(NOT a man's Blood).

* As a BODY is "Dying"... it slips into a state of "unconsciousness"... the "senses" drift away...
Which IS..."The Living Soul" leaving/ departing the BODY.

* The Dead Body...feels, hears, says, sees, tastes.......Nothing!

* The Departed Living Soul?
Whep...here's a Note...all souls Belong To God. (You can read that in Scripture, "All souls are mine" sainthood the Lord God).

* the Departed Living soul is a Soul with Gods Breath remaining In the Soul, but the Soul is no longer in "its" Body. "It's"? Yes...Body and souls...same Name identity.

* the Dead Body- begind deteriorating / rotting...preparing to return to dust. Can be buried, burned, left in a field ...it will rot.

* and the Living Soul? What happens to That?

* depends...
What did that Body of man Decide and Do, while the Living Soul was IN His Body?
* was his Mind continuously getting his way by deceiving? Which affected his soul corruptly within him.
* was his Mind against God, continuously flapping his lips, speaking Against The Lord God? Again corrupting his soul.
* did that man seek a true forgiveness From God, for having corrupted his soul, by the thoughts and acts of his corrupt Flesh Body?

All depends on what the man (Flesh Body) chooses while the body is Still physically Alive.

God offers, a Way to all men, to be forgiven and have their Soul restored and Saved.
Restored to what?
Restored to GOOD, as God call all the things He created and made, in the Day He CREATED and MADE all things in the beginning.
Saved From What?
A damning Judgement and Sentence.
Eternal Separation From God.
Saved TO What?
The Lord Gods Peace, Joy, Comfort, Protection Via, His Power to Forever "Remain" with His Life in that Soul.

A Saved Living soul, departs a dying Body, and rises to Heaven, is With God in His Kingdom....And WAITS.

An Unsaved Living soul, departs a dying body, is lowered to Hell, is Separated From God, NOT in Gods Kingdom...And WAITS.

What is the WAITING For?
Gods plan to be Accomplished...
IOW- All Earthly men that ever HAVE or WILL be born...to be Accomplished.
Then Will God...begin MASSIVE Judgement and Sentencing...of the WHOLE of Man...
Body, soul, spirit of man.

A sentence of a Saved soul is Forever it shall remain with Gods Breath of Life.

* IMO and understanding: A sentence of an Unsaved soul is a bit more involved...

And that is determined: by what the man did while Alive.
* rejected God and physically died?
* rejected Christ Jesus and physically died?
Then; LIFE in his soul RETURNS to God.
* the Lifeless Body and Lifeless Soul ...
BURNED UP in the Fire Pit in Hell, and Forgotten.
(He knows nothing, physically feels, suffers nothing).

** But for a man alive in his Flesh...WHO...
EXPRESSLY... preached, taught, promoted, encouraged others TO NOT Believe in the Lord God...
"They have" committed an Unpardonable Sin AGAINST the Holy Spirit.

(We know they never received a born Again "spirit"... which is a whole other topic)...

But I lean toward the belief:
That Their Body is cast into the Fire pit and burned up...
But that;
That God LEAVES his Life IN their Soul, and casts them INTO the Fire pit, from which FOREVER they suffer...fully Aware, they can never escape, rest, enjoy....and fully Aware it was Because They promoted AGAINST God.

Mortal by definition means... shall die.
Men's Body's are mortal.
Animals are Mortal.
That which It's Life Is BLOOD, is Mortal.

An immortal thing...Does NOT Depend on Blood to Live.

Gods Life does not depend on Blood.
Spirits (angel's good / or bad) are not Mortal...they can never "physically Die".
A soul is not mortal. It can not Physically Die.
Calling a soul "dead", or it shall "die"...
Is a Spiritual Understanding of Death...
Separated from God....Not a Physical Death.
Souls can be Destroyed.

A man "putting on immortality"... is his Body being "Changed" from mortal Blood LIFE that Does Die...to an immortal body, without Blood", that can never Die.
Souls do not put on Immortality...
They simply "KEEP" Gods Breath of Life IN them...
Or God Removes His Breath of Life, takes that Life back to Himself, and destroys the soul by fire.

Remember a man can Kill his own body an others body...but he can Not Kill a soul.

Hope this is beneficial to you.
Glory to God,
Taken

All this you posted here at no time did you show me a scripture that says we have a soul much less a immortal soul. Man is a soul just as animals are souls. The same breath that man has animals have the life is in the blood of animals as it is with humans. Humans don't have souls that separate from the body and go to heaven or hell. The scriptures don't speak of the soul that way.

 

[Berserk]

Notice how anti-Catholic Fundamentalists in this thread keep ducking the posted testimonies to miracles achieved through prayers to the saints. I'll bet none of them have ever seen an indisputable miracle in response to their prayers to God. They ignore Jesus' principle, "By their fruits you shall know them," and the lack of demonstrable power does not support their status as instruments of the kingdom: "The kingdom of God depends not on (God-] talk, but on power (1 Cor 4:20)."

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Wow, just wow..

Lord, have mercy!

People can say what they want about me. I choose to believe what Gods Holy Spirit had written down. I will not agree it's ok to take scripture out of context for someone to prove his/her believe. I also will not go along with imperfect people's interpretation of scripture. If something is written down in scripture that contradicts someones interpretation, I'm believing what's written down.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Obviously you didn't read my post. I said that all in heaven are alive not dead. At no time did I say anyone in heaven was dead. Also the context of James 5:16 is talking about humans not Angels or spiritual beings. You can take a scripture out of context all you want to try to prove what you believe but it's not going to convince me. Also the Trinity and incarnation are false doctrines that's why there not in the scriptures. The scriptures are explicit when it says 2 Timothy 3:16,17 it's obvious you don't agree with this scripture.

First of all - I wasn't talking about Angels in reference to James 5:16 - but those who have been made perfectly righteous in christ.
ONLY those in Heaven are perfectly righteous.

As to your second statement in RED - had I known I was arguing with a non-Christian - I would have approached the conversation differently . . .

 

[Getitright]

Do Catholics Talk to Dead People?

They may but dead people can't respond

 

[Truther]

EVERY time you "Ask" somebody to pray for you - you have PRAYED to them.
Read and learn . . .

Merriam-Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary:
Full Definition of pray
transitive verb
1: entreat, implore —often used as a function word in introducing a question, request, or plea<pray be careful>
2: to get or bring by praying

intransitive verb
1: to make a request in a humble manner
2: to address God or a god with adoration, confession, supplication, or thanksgiving

There ends the lesson.

If I ask someone to pray for me, I don't pray to them while asking.

Do you PRAY to someone to pass the salad at dinner time?

If I ask you a question, am I praying TO you?

Ick!

 

[Illuminator]

No it is not wrong.
And you should have reread the meaning without a preconceived understanding.
I am Fully aware PRAY can be used to make a Formal Request to a Court, or government agency that holds a document an individual may wish to see or have a copy thereof,
You are way overboard, outside the parameter, if you think ... hey waaasup? Is an example of PRAYING a Humble question.

Praying is not restricted to the Calvinoid overemphasis of one element of the meaning of "pray". More than one detailed definition has been in this thread alone, so word games and semantics are employed to escape the undeniable truth that Jesus and Peter commanded/prayed to dead Lazarus and Tabitha.

When you call upon Mary...you call out her Name...you call out to her in humble reverence and adoration. Maybe have bowed your head, or on your knees...You ARE PRAYING to her, that she be a deliverer TO God, of your Request.

Exactly, but it's not "worship", no matter how hard "pray" gets distorted.

Why you do Not have communication Directly with God, is a mystery... I have never heard a Catholic...Explain.

Again, 90%+ of the Mass is communication Directly with God. Your perspective of the prayer life of Catholics is warped.

How you Bodily communicate, talking with your body's mouth... To an others Living soul, whose Body is Dead...
Is another mystery...I have never heard a Catholic...Explain.

How is it possible for Jesus and Peter, talking with physical earthly body's mouths to raise the dead without simultaneously telling the dead person to rise??? What is abundantly clear in Scripture is no mystery.

Since no one has come forth with an answer after asking several times, here it is: It's not possible. So word games are employed to justify the man made tradition that we can only talk to God. Lazarus is not God. Tabitha is not God. They were obviously DEAD. Very DEAD. Jesus and Peter spoke to dead people. Therefore the notion that all prayer must be directed to God alone is a man made tradition.

Evidence of prayers to saints dates back as far as 50 A.D. before deeper understanding and clarity took place.

 

[Grailhunter]

Mark 12:26-27
But regarding the fact that the dead rise again, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the passage about the burning bush, how God spoke to him, saying, ‘I AM THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, AND THE GOD OF ISAAC, and the God of Jacob’? “He is not the God of the dead, but of the living; you are greatly mistaken.”

And Christ talked to Elijah and Moses during the Transfiguration.

I really do not understand how some can be so confused. Christ explained it Himself. I mean what does it take?

Now I can understand some of the confusion as to exactly what happens after death and where do people (souls) go. It was not well explained in the scriptures. So I give them that.

Smarter than your average bear. I can worship in a Cathedral during the Stations of the Cross...so beautiful and a wonderful blessing.

I can go to the altar with the congregation in a non-denominational church and lay hands on someone with a disease and watch the oil be applied and witness a healing.

I can stand with the Holy Ghost churches and be blessed with prophecy and tongues. I can worship the Holy Spirit and feel the presence like it is a warm wind. You can almost see the Holy Spirit move among the congregation.

I have participated in river baptisms and full dinner ritual communions.

I have washed the feet of the saints.

I have witnessed so many miracles I have lost count.

I have had angelic visitations, one that save my mom's life and one that allowed me to save the life of another that had went down in a lake at night.

The Blessed Mary appeared and spoke to me, more than once. Once in the heat of battle, telling me which way to go....the other way was hit with an RPG. She saved eight of us that day.

I can fellowship with the Catholics and the Protestants and the Mormons and have a blast. Eat like I have two stomachs.

But I can also tick you all off. I am going to explain something here that you do not know.
People debate exactly what Christ meant when he told the thief on the cross that he would be with Him in Paradise.

People talk about going to heaven or hell after they die. There is even a religion out there that suggest that judgement more or less occurred before the creation of the world. Predestinationists...Yuke!

Christians are not all that well versed with shoal.
Catholics believe in a realm of Purgatory....a punishment...for those that are iffy.

Here is real deal.
You cannot go to heaven or hell before judgement....unless God takes you in bodily form. Like Enoch, Elijah, and Mary.

In the OT all the Jews were gathered with their fathers in Sheol. There are Christians that believe that the OT Jews went to hell. I can tell you for sure and certain that God is not going to give up on the Jews. It does not matter how rebellious they are, how arrogant they are, no matter how many things they have done wrong to mess themselves over, God will not give up on them. That is why I was honored to stand and fight between Israel and its enemies.

Shoal has many levels. When you die your soul does not die, it does not become dormant, it goes to Shoal. Depending on your character and sins and if you are saved or not, your soul goes to the level of like character and condition. The lower levels of Sheol are not to unlike hell. The top level is Paradise, not to unlike heaven.
Christ went to Shoal after He departed from His body on the cross to preach the Gospel to those there. Jews and everybody else. Paradise is a wonderful place. That is why Christ said to the thief that he would be with Him in Paradise.

But your final destination is not determined until judgment day and you will "stand before Christ" to be judged.

So the body dies but the soul lives on. Christ can talk to those in Sheol. This is what happened at the Transfiguration. This is why Christ said that God is not the God of the dead. So this "talking to the dead" junk is for those that do not understand...as Christ said, they are greatly mistaken.

Mary was taken in bodily form and even before that she was changed with her contact with God and Christ in her womb. Now she is an envoy of God doing the will of God. All over the world for 1955 years, prophesying, healing, performing miracles, and doing the will of Christ. I have seen her glorious presence, heard her sweet voice...one of the greatest moments of my life!

Now Bon appétit, it means nothing to me if you believe me or not. But you have been told.

 

[Taken]

Consider the etymology of the word "pray":

Already covered that in Brief.
So nothing new there to consider.

So to summarise so far, to use "pray" for "ask" is scriptural

Yes ask MAYBE a Praying...or MAYBE simply asking a question....without the intent or showing of the Asking according to the Meaning of Prayfully Asking.

and it is in this sense that Catholics pray to Mary. They are asking "her for her prayers" for us.

Well that ^ also...is different that what this forum Self-proclaimed Catholic teachers has Said.

You say...a Catholic is petitioning specifically For Mary to PRAY For them...and perhaps other people...

But an other Catholic says that PRAY TO Mary, is that ...She Deliver a person's Prayer to God.

So...which Catholic is Teaching A Catholic position?

To summarise:
Catholics use one meaning of “pray” when addressing Mary and a different meaning when addressing God.

Thanks.

Well...(I am presuming your are Catholic and answer from a Catholic perspective)... you can Correct my presumption, if you are Not Catholic.

On this forum...ONE Catholic, who promotes himself as "the Authority Teacher" on Behalf of Catholic Protocal, Teaching, Doctrine and such...

HAS conveyed all asking of any question of one to another is Praying.
Do you agree with that?

It is still a mystery...how a living body, communicates with a disembodied Living soul.

Maybe you can shed your perspective on that.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

First of all - I wasn't talking about Angels in reference to James 5:16 - but those who have been made perfectly righteous in christ.
ONLY those in Heaven are perfectly righteous.

As to your second statement in RED - had I known I was arguing with a non-Christian - I would have approached the conversation differently . . .

Then let me be more accurate for you. The context of James 5:16 is talking about humans not anyone in heaven.
In the scriptures it says that there will be people who will believe a lie rather than the truth. These people will honestly believe that are living and believing the truth. Most people who are like this will take a scripture out of context and think nothing of it. They will also interpret scripture rather than believe what Gods Holy Spirit had written down. Just as I don't agree with people taking scripture out of context I care just as little about people's interpretations of the scriptures. Especially when what's written down in the Bible contradicts a persons interpretations.

 

[historyb]

God is God of all. Everything in the world belongs to God who created all things. That passage is speaking about those that are spiritually alive versus the spiritually dead. To the spiritually dead, God is not their father and will not have communion with them, for they are rejected of Him. He will not be there God the sense that He will not advocate on their behalf nor admit them in close relationship with Himself. But He is still God overall, is He not? All souls belong to Him and He may do whatever He chooses with them. He is the judge.

Thought you might try to twist the verse, that happens when sacred cows get shot down. God is God of the living not of the dead, period. There is no wiggle room everything you believe has been a lie. It's okay many don't really want to believe God so make of their own ideas like you do.

 

[historyb]

Yes, they talk to each other and pray to dead saints.

Nope, Catholics nor any Traditional Christians pray to anyone dead. God is a God of the living not the Dead, period. Christians never die

 

[historyb]

If YOU believe that the people in Heaven are "DEAD" - then you don't believe in Christ.
Sooooooo, why are you wasting your time pretending to believe?

Luke 20:38
Now he is not God of the dead, but of the living, for all live to him.”

I got in trouble for saying that truth. It is amazing how many people don't really believe in Christ but pretend they do.

 

[friend of]

There is no wiggle room everything you believe has been a lie. It's okay many don't really want to believe God so make of their own ideas like you do

Well that escalated quickly. Have a good day sir.

 

[friend of]

Thought you might try to twist the verse, that happens when sacred cows get shot down. God is God of the living not of the dead, period. There is no wiggle room everything you believe has been a lie. It's okay many don't really want to believe God so make of their own ideas like you do.

Who is in charge of the fate of the unbelievers then? Who is the God of the dead?

 

[kcnalp]

But prayer ONLY to God is a man made tradition, it's not in the Bible. "Pray to" does not mean "worship" and that is where your problem lies.

"Prayer ONLY to God" may be a problem for you but not for me. You haven't given even one valid Biblical example of God's people praying to men! I'll stick with praying to God.

 

[kcnalp]

A non-sequitur fallacy. Those in heaven are not sinners.
Another one of Calvin's either/or false dichotomies.

I said "sinners who died" as was Mary. Stop twisting my words.

 

[kcnalp]

So does mine.
Now, show me where it says the Son is the Author of Scripture and not the SUBJECT of it.

Already did, but will gladly do again.

2 Tim 3 All Scripture is God breathed ...

Jesus is God of the Bible and the Author!

 

[kcnalp]

Wanna bet??

In post #169 - YOU said:
"Do you pray to God?"

By ASKING me that - you PRAYED to me.
You are not my God. I don't pray to you no matter how much you TWIST what I said.

As I have educated you before - "Pray" simply means to "ASK".
"Worship" is a SECONDARY definition:

Merriam-Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary:
Full Definition of pray
transitive verb
1: entreat, implore —often used as a function word in introducing a question, request, or plea<pray be careful>
2: to get or bring by praying

intransitive verb
1: to make a request in a humble manner
2: to address God or a god with adoration, confession, supplication, or thanksgiving

You are not my God. I don't pray to you no matter how much you TWIST what I said.