DAY OF THE LORD

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CadyandZoe

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Luke 21:32-36 (KJV)
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Im a bit confounded. With all thats to take place before the Day of the Lord how can you not see it coming? Am i reading this wrong? Just what is a "snare"? Not lookin to argue. Lookin for answers
As you might already know, a "snare" is a trap. The snare is designed to capture an animal and hold it until the trapper comes. In this context, Jesus is drawing an analogy between a snare and something else that might capture us and keep us here on earth when the time comes for us to leave.

In Luke 17, Jesus exhorts us to remember Lot's wife who hesitated just long enough to be caught in the destruction of Sodom. Her longing for something she left behind, was like a snare that kept her from running. Perhaps Jesus is warning us to avoid growing too attached to things or people in this world; a longing that might entrap us and keep us from leaving when the time comes.
 

Davy

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As you might already know, a "snare" is a trap. The snare is designed to capture an animal and hold it until the trapper comes. In this context, Jesus is drawing an analogy between a snare and something else that might capture us and keep us here on earth when the time comes for us to leave.

In Luke 17, Jesus exhorts us to remember Lot's wife who hesitated just long enough to be caught in the destruction of Sodom. Her longing for something she left behind, was like a snare that kept her from running. Perhaps Jesus is warning us to avoid growing too attached to things or people in this world; a longing that might entrap us and keep us from leaving when the time comes.

Thing is though, those in Christ on the "day of the Lord" are not appointed to God's wrath poured out upon the wicked on that final day of this present world. The "sudden destruction" on the "day of the Lord" that Apostle Paul mentioned in 1 Thessalonians 5 is upon the deceived and wicked. It is they who will travail as a woman with child. That day is the day of Christ's coming to gather His saints, and with His army do battle at Armageddon. So there is no room for a Pre-trib Rapture in any of that.
 
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Timtofly

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Of course people can! the 7 years of tribulation are not over! after the 7th trumpet we see the accounts of teh antichrist and Babylon and then we see the seven angels having the last plagues! The 7th Trumpet occurs in REv. 11. Jesus does not come back till REv. 19!

There are no souls raptured at Armageddon. When the survivors of earth that are allowed into teh millenial kingdom do enter, they will have renewed glorified bodies. As Is. says people will repopulate the earth and somewone 100 years old wioll be conisdered a child! People also will have till their 100th birthday to accept Christ or die!
Revelation 20, clearly states those people will be resurrected from death. Where does it says people are "changed" at the battle of Armageddon?
 

Timtofly

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I don't see that. The destiny of the 144,000 is the same as the Gentiles. The reason I think the 144,000 Israelites are written of separately in Rev.7 is because God in the Old Testament prophets also covered both groups that way, even when saved together as one body. And the idea of being 'sealed' with God's sealing means being sealed by The Holy Spirit, so both groups are actually being shown as belonging to Lord Jesus, which means His Church. Also, the "camp of the saints" as shown in Rev.20 is on the earth, not up in Heaven.
Was there a distinction between the 12 disciples and every Jew living in Jesus' day, or did Jesus view them all as a single group?
 

Ronald Nolette

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Revelation 20, clearly states those people will be resurrected from death. Where does it says people are "changed" at the battle of Armageddon?

It doesn't because people are not saved or raptured at the Campaign of Armageddon. Armageddon is not when the 7th trumpet blows and the 7th trumpet is not the last trump Paul speaks of in 1 Cor. 15.

REv. 20 speaks of the 2nd resurrection since Pentecost!

The first resurrection occurs at the rapture which is the church and the dead church saints being taken to heaven. this is "The Last Trump" Paul speaks of when the church is glorified.

Before the church is glorified and given her robes of fine linen pure white in REv. 20 to wed Jesus in heaven, we, the church go through the bema judgment.
1 Corinthians 3:6-16
King James Version

6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.

7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

Now this is a judgment only for the church! Verses 11 and 12 show that it is church saints.

It is not a judgment of salvation or damnation for that judgment was settled at the cross! This is a judgment of our works to see if they were spiritual or carnal. The works not done in the Spirit will be burned while the works done in the Spirit will survive and we will be rewarded.

This takes place duirng teh period on earth known as the 7 year tribulation.

Then in REv. 19 the church weds Jesus in heaven, Jesus returns and we return with Him!

After His return, Jesus judges the nations and grants entrance into the kingdom for the righteous survivors of the Trib and cast the unrighteous into torment.

He also resurrects the Trib saints and they reign as priests with him for 1,000 years with the church as Jesus' Queen consort!

The last resurrection Rev. 20:13, is only the lost of all ages who died! They are resurrected to be cast into the eternal lake of fire!
 

Ronald Nolette

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The 'people' in heaven are dead souls. Proved by Revelation 6:9-11, it is them who praise God for taking revenge on those who killed them. Revelation 19:2
There is no scripture that says people will live in heaven, let alone get married there!

What we should believe is what the bible actually says and not speculate with our own fanciful ideas.

I agree with your last line!

but it was you who said the dead know nothing! Yet now you say they know enough to cry out for vengeance and to shout saying the wedding of Jesus has arrived! that is pretty good for people who know nothing.

By the Way still waiting fro the verse that shows God wakes them up from sleep.

Flesh and blood people will not occupy heaven, but glorified people (however that means physically) will!

By the Way, if Jesus is not preparing a place in heaven for the church which he will come again and take us to be with him- where is He currently preparing a place for the church?

By the way, if it is not teh church that is marrying Jesus in heaven, who is Jesus marrying?

No more answers to you until you answer these three by the ways.

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

Who is this in heaven?
 

user

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Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Revelation 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
 

Keraz

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By the Way still waiting fro the verse that shows God wakes them up from sleep.
The dead souls of the martyrs 'sleep' under the Altar in heaven. God allows them to cry out at times. Those who were killed during the 3 1/2 years of the Great Trib, will be resurrected when Jesus Returns, bit the rest of the dead await the GWT Judgment. Revelation 20:4-5
By the Way, if Jesus is not preparing a place in heaven for the church which he will come again and take us to be with him- where is He currently preparing a place for the church?
The New Jerusalem is being prepared in heaven. It will come to the earth after the Millennium. Revelation 21:1
By the way, if it is not teh church that is marrying Jesus in heaven, who is Jesus marrying?
Nowhere is it said the Marriage of Jesus to His faithful people, will happen in heaven. You make that up.
Who is this in heaven?
Revelation 19:6-7 does not mention heaven as the location for these verses. You do a lot of wishful thinking!
I agree with your last line!
Well then; why do you speculate with your fanciful ideas?
 

Bobby Jo

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... Jesus returns and we return with Him! ...

If this is TRUE then please make that CORRECTION:

Rev. 20:4 ... I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and for the word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life, and RETURNED WITH THE CHURCH TO reign [strike "ed"] with Christ a thousand years.

OR, ................ the church WILL go through the 42 MONTH Tribulation, exactly as we have been for the past 26 MONTHS!

Rev. 13:10 ... Here is a call for the endurance and faith of the saints.
Rev. 14:12 Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

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Rev. 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead in them, and all were judged by what they had done.

... The last resurrection Rev. 20:13, is only the lost of all ages who died! ...

You presume too much. Please stick to Scripture.
Bobby Jo
 
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Trekson

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I don't see that. The destiny of the 144,000 is the same as the Gentiles. The reason I think the 144,000 Israelites are written of separately in Rev.7 is because God in the Old Testament prophets also covered both groups that way, even when saved together as one body. And the idea of being 'sealed' with God's sealing means being sealed by The Holy Spirit, so both groups are actually being shown as belonging to Lord Jesus, which means His Church. Also, the "camp of the saints" as shown in Rev.20 is on the earth, not up in Heaven. That camp on earth is where Christ's Church will be, not up in Heaven.

Also, the saved out of all peoples are shown in the Revelation 15:2-4 Scripture, singing the Song of Moses in Christ's coming kingdom. So it's not like the Gentiles are left out of Christ's reign with His elect in Rev.14.

I don't see it as being left out, I think the greater blessings will be found in heaven. I don't remember if we covered this but I believe the GT is satan's wrath upon the church, Rev. 12:17 and it will play out like Mark 13 says. I believe what makes it great is the amount of christians that will be martyred, imo the 6 million will be dwarfed by the amount of christians killed. That's what makes it a time, like no other. I agree w/ the concept of "one body" so to speak but that is what the marriage supper is about, imo. I think the 'sealing" is both spiritual and physical. Only time will tell, but either way I believe it is coming upon us very quickly.
 

Davy

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It doesn't because people are not saved or raptured at the Campaign of Armageddon. Armageddon is not when the 7th trumpet blows and the 7th trumpet is not the last trump Paul speaks of in 1 Cor. 15.

REv. 20 speaks of the 2nd resurrection since Pentecost!

The first resurrection occurs at the rapture which is the church and the dead church saints being taken to heaven. this is "The Last Trump" Paul speaks of when the church is glorified.

Before the church is glorified and given her robes of fine linen pure white in REv. 20 to wed Jesus in heaven, we, the church go through the bema judgment.
1 Corinthians 3:6-16
King James Version

6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.

7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

Now this is a judgment only for the church! Verses 11 and 12 show that it is church saints.

It is not a judgment of salvation or damnation for that judgment was settled at the cross! This is a judgment of our works to see if they were spiritual or carnal. The works not done in the Spirit will be burned while the works done in the Spirit will survive and we will be rewarded.

This takes place duirng teh period on earth known as the 7 year tribulation.

Then in REv. 19 the church weds Jesus in heaven, Jesus returns and we return with Him!

After His return, Jesus judges the nations and grants entrance into the kingdom for the righteous survivors of the Trib and cast the unrighteous into torment.

He also resurrects the Trib saints and they reign as priests with him for 1,000 years with the church as Jesus' Queen consort!

The last resurrection Rev. 20:13, is only the lost of all ages who died! They are resurrected to be cast into the eternal lake of fire!

The 7th Trumpet is... the "last trump" of 1 Cor.15. There is no 8th trumpet written of. Pre-tribulationalism is a doctrine of devils and is not written anywhere in God's Word. It is a doctrine of men, a hoax designed to fool the gullible who don't have the intestinal fortitude to make a stand against the beast with giving a Testimony for Jesus Christ. It is a doctrine for the spiritual weak.
 

Davy

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I don't see it as being left out, I think the greater blessings will be found in heaven. I don't remember if we covered this but I believe the GT is satan's wrath upon the church, Rev. 12:17 and it will play out like Mark 13 says. I believe what makes it great is the amount of christians that will be martyred, imo the 6 million will be dwarfed by the amount of christians killed. That's what makes it a time, like no other. I agree w/ the concept of "one body" so to speak but that is what the marriage supper is about, imo. I think the 'sealing" is both spiritual and physical. Only time will tell, but either way I believe it is coming upon us very quickly.

Yes, I agree that the time of 'great tribulation' is Satan's wrath upon Christ's elect (but not upon those fallen away).

I only see Christ's very elect of Matthew 24:24 being persecuted. Satan will not go after deceived brethren, and the reason will be because the deceived will believe he is Messiah that has come. They will believe the great signs and wonders he will work on earth. The deceived don't really care about the warnings against falling away to the fake Christ written of in God's Word regarding prophecy for the end; they only care about their stomachs and who is able to fill them.
 

Ronald Nolette

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The dead souls of the martyrs 'sleep' under the Altar in heaven. God allows them to cry out at times. Those who were killed during the 3 1/2 years of the Great Trib, will be resurrected when Jesus Returns, bit the rest of the dead await the GWT Judgment. Revelation 20:4-5

That is what you say- but still waiting for biblical proof for your hypothesis.

The New Jerusalem is being prepared in heaven. It will come to the earth after the Millennium. Revelation 21:1

Yes it will but the church reigns with Christ as Queen for 1,000 years as declared by the fact teh Apostles judge the twelve tribes of Israel during teh millenial kingdom.

Nowhere is it said the Marriage of Jesus to His faithful people, will happen in heaven. You make that up.

right there in REv. 19. But then again you don't like following things in order so you have arbitrarily put the wedding which is inspired before Jesus return, to after Jesus return based on.............?. A normal person looking to learn would see that teh wedding occurs in heaven.

YOu forget the Bema judgment of 1 Cor. 15 is not the judgment of the sheep and goats of Matthew 25 nor is it the great white throne judgment at the end of time!

Revelation 19:6-7 does not mention heaven as the location for these verses. You do a lot of wishful thinking!

Well we have a crowed who had to get waken up according to you to shout saying the wedding of the Lamb has arrived! The church (which only is the bride of Jesus) has already been judged for she is arrayed in fine linen which is the righteous deeds of the saints as God says. If the church is not in heaven, how do those sleepy heads (btw where in scripture does it say they are awaken to shout this) know that the church is arrayed in fine linen? According to you teh church is not resurrected until after the millenial kingdom! But according to a normal reading of Gods Word

1. the wrath we the church are delivered from is the tribulation
2. We are promised to be delievered from that wrath in Thess.
3. We are promised to be kept out of that wrath in REv.

YOu can't say we the church will be kept safe during the tribulation, for millions of saints will die during the trib period! YOur Jesdus does a terrible job of protecting and keeping safe His saints then.

Well then; why do you speculate with your fanciful ideas?

Because they are based on rightly dividing teh Word of Truth!
 

Ronald Nolette

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If this is TRUE then please make that CORRECTION:

Rev. 20:4 ... I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and for the word of God, and who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life, and RETURNED WITH THE CHURCH TO reign [strike "ed"] with Christ a thousand years.

OR, ................ the church WILL go through the 42 MONTH Tribulation, exactly as we have been for the past 26 MONTHS!

Rev. 13:10 ... Here is a call for the endurance and faith of the saints.
Rev. 14:12 Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Rev. 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead in them, and all were judged by what they had done.



You presume too much. Please stick to Scripture.
Bobby Jo

I do stick to Scripture.

What you presume is that every time in the NT the Word saint appears you presume it must mean the church! Remember God promised the church they would not endure the wrath to come (the tribulation) and we would be kept safe. How can we believe the church is in the Tribulation when we see all those souls who were beheaded for the faith during the tribulation! That is not delivering us from the wrath.

I encourage you to read this manuscript which is a short excellent biblical defense of the pre-tribulational rapture.

http://www.arielcontent.org/dcs/pdf/mbs039m.pdf

When one takes the counsel of all Scripture concerning the tribulation period ( 7 years) , understand the purpose for it, what it is called, and who are the major players, biblically there is only one conclusion that can be drawn, the church is pulled off the earth sometime prior to the start of the tribulation, which commences when the Anrtichrist signs a 7 year covenant with Israel.

As for Rev. 20:13 you must remember that this resurrection is for the second death. Remember verses 5&6:

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

so those who do not take part in the first resurrection, the second death has power over them! YOu cannot avoid that unless you twist grammar to make this say something other than what it does!
 

Ronald Nolette

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The 7th Trumpet is... the "last trump" of 1 Cor.15. There is no 8th trumpet written of. Pre-tribulationalism is a doctrine of devils and is not written anywhere in God's Word. It is a doctrine of men, a hoax designed to fool the gullible who don't have the intestinal fortitude to make a stand against the beast with giving a Testimony for Jesus Christ. It is a doctrine for the spiritual weak.

That is you simply seeing the last trump, then seeing the 7th Trump of REvelation is the last of teh series of 7 trumpets and saying 1 Cor. 15 must be the 7th Trump.

But you forget all that occurs after the 7th Trump is sounded.

You forget that John did not receive His vision of these trumpets until the 90 A.D's and Paul wrote 1 Cor. in teh late 40's. So you have a fifty year gap and you are saying Paul knew of the 7th Trump before God even revealed it or the first time to John! That is just silly.
 

Bobby Jo

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That is what you say- but still waiting for biblical proof for your hypothesis. ...

Ummmmmmmmm, that's the funniest (or saddest) statement I've read in a long time. -- Perhaps Bible Prophecy is written IN ADVANCE so that WE'LL KNOW BEFORE IT HAPPENS so that we can prepare ourselves and our households for DIFFICULT TIMES.


... or maybe you like surprises?!?

1 Thess. 5:3 When people say, “There is peace and security,” then sudden destruction will come upon them as travail comes upon a woman with child, and there will be no escape. 4 But you are not in darkness, brethren, for that day to surprise you like a thief.

Bobby Jo
 

Bobby Jo

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I do stick to Scripture. ...

... then where is your "tribulation period ( 7 years)"? Rev. 13:5 correctly says 42 months.

... 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. ...
Which is to say that the MARTYRED are the FIRST Resurrection and that they WILL NOT DIE during the Millennial Kingdom, and the SECOND Resurrection is when ALL the dead are raised including from the seas. And AFTER ALL the DEAD are raised, then those who are alive and remain on earth (including Jesus, the Martyred, and the church) shall be caught up to be with the LORD Forever In The Air.

Did you think otherwise?
Bobby Jo
 

Ronald Nolette

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... then where is your "tribulation period ( 7 years)"? Rev. 13:5 correctly says 42 months.


Which is to say that the MARTYRED are the FIRST Resurrection and that they WILL NOT DIE during the Millennial Kingdom, and the SECOND Resurrection is when ALL the dead are raised including from the seas. And AFTER ALL the DEAD are raised, then those who are alive and remain on earth (including Jesus, the Martyred, and the church) shall be caught up to be with the LORD Forever In The Air.

Did you think otherwise?
Bobby Jo

Rev. 13:5 is what Jesus called the great tribulation which is the second half of what we call the tribulation period. but that it is a 7 year period is found in Daniel 9.

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

the midst of the week is when the Antichrist rises from the dead- enter the holy place as said in Matthew 24 and is teh abomination that makes desolate. Then the Jews flee Israel and go to the city of Petra for the last 3 1/2 years as described in Rev. 12:

Revelation 12
King James Version

12 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

A quick synopsis of the 7 years is:

Teh first six seals are pre tribulation events that bring the rise of the antichrist and the peace and safety Paul said in thess, before sudden destruction comes.

The opening of the sixth seal begins the tribulation period or 70th week of Daniel Then somewhere around the sounding of the 7th trumpet starts the great tribulation portion of the 70th week or the last 3 1/2 years before Jesus physically returns.

Ummmmmmmmm, that's the funniest (or saddest) statement I've read in a long time. -- Perhaps Bible Prophecy is written IN ADVANCE so that WE'LL KNOW BEFORE IT HAPPENS so that we can prepare ourselves and our households for DIFFICULT TIMES.

Well that was for Keraz. But yes Prophecy is for us to know in advance what will come. but that does not give anyone the right to simply make up statrements that are not found in Scripture to make a name for themselves.

I have taught end times theology at the College level for well over 25 years. I started as an a-mill and then became a dispy, pre mil because of the evidence of Scripture!

I have read literally dozens of books written on the end times from all sorts of perspectives (even the Jw's and Mormons) so I could learn and see what is the most biblically sound.

I am not perfect nor do I have a lock on full knowledge of Scripture, but over the years ( I have been saved almost 46 years now) I have seen all these whacky thesis come and go and the allegorical interpretation of prophesy (that is teh Scripture says one thing but people make it mean something different).

I have also learned that to form an accurate opinion of prophesy- we must take in all the Scriptures talking about teh events and times to get the full picture! Many on this forum and others I have been on, do not do this.

Could I possibly be wrong? Absolutely! But no one yet has given me a better argument from Scripture to shake my belief that I am rightly dividing the Word when it comes to the last days and the events.

I am not foolish enough (anymore) to try to identify things like what are those creatures that come out of teh bottomless pit and torment men for five months or what is the star that pollutes the waters etc. I do know symbolism and that SCripture defines its own symbols, so I need not look elsewhere to know what a symbol means.

The greatest work I have ever read on end Times studies is:

Footsteps of teh Messiah" by Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum.

He is a Messianic Jew who by the age of 13 had the Pentateuch, and the poetic books memorized in order ( He was the son of a rebbe and studying to be one). He goes into great depth in defining symbols and understanding the se days which the bible calls "the Time of the Gentiles".

I encourage you if you have a burden to read on the last days to invest in this book. It is a long book and a little pricey, ($39) but well worth the investment if one wants a Scripture rich look at the end times from a dispensational view.

Well this is where I come from in talking about the end times.
 

Bobby Jo

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... it is a 7 year period is found in Daniel 9. ...

Wrong. Walvoord's experts cite instance after instance where the "History" doesn't work; where the "going forth of the word" is misapplied; where the "weeks" is interpreted using the wrong gender; where the "seven and sixty-two" twists Scripture; and on and on:


“This prophesy of the seventy sevens is one of the most difficult in the entire OT, and although the interpretations are almost legion, we shall confine ourselves to the discussion of three which may be regarded as of particular importance.”[1]

[1] Guthrie, D., & J.A. Motyer, New Bible Commentary: Revised, Eerdmans Publishing Co., Grand Rapids, MI, 1970, p. 699


I'm shocked, but not surprised that you taught end-times theology and have no clue as to the LIES about the Book of Daniel, because Walvoord himself threw out ALL the CLUES from his Scholars and stuck with the Commentator "best lies". If he had integrity he would have remained SILENT until the prophecies could be UNSEALED now that we're in the end-times.


Have you considered obeying the angel's instructions, or are you content with lies?
Bobby Jo
 

Trekson

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Yes, I agree that the time of 'great tribulation' is Satan's wrath upon Christ's elect (but not upon those fallen away).

I only see Christ's very elect of Matthew 24:24 being persecuted. Satan will not go after deceived brethren, and the reason will be because the deceived will believe he is Messiah that has come. They will believe the great signs and wonders he will work on earth. The deceived don't really care about the warnings against falling away to the fake Christ written of in God's Word regarding prophecy for the end; they only care about their stomachs and who is able to fill them.

Exactly, 100% in agreement!