Post #1 No scripture for choice
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#5 no scripture for choice -- the dude is a slave to what he DOESN'T want to do!
#6 had one that could be used for that, but it doesn't state it. I will grant that one, though.
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#10 no scripture for choice This post gave two, but they do not openly state free choice, and are actively used by those who believe no free choice.
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#30 is your post, and you gave 3 that can be used to support choice, but they do not state choice. How do we not know that they love those that love, and hate those that hate, by God's decree? Or that they love those that hate them, by God's decree or woking in them to do it? (He works in us both to desire and to do His perfect will, for example?) I will grant you these three, but they do not state free choice, per se. So technically, I still hold that none have been given, that can be argued against.
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#36 FINALLY GAVE ONE! Good stuff. This one is so blunt, it cannot be argued with except those who willfully choose to forget. Hey, could that be one being referred to here?
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#58 Here you gave a fair number of scriptures. Good. I really like seeing that. 2 Thessalonians 2:10 supports free choice. Jer. 5:23 can be used for support of free choice, but it is also decried by the nay-sayers of free choice. Some of the other scriptures are actively used for purporting no free choice. All the others are used for both camps, depending upon one's predispostion on this topic. So I see that you actually only gave one scripture that openly stated free choice. Some of the others openly stated that God hardened their hearts. Poor choice of scriptures to "bolster" free choice, it would seem. If one gives scripture, they must be undeniably clear for one's position, and definitely not used by the other camp to state a case against you. We must use undeniable scriptures, I think. I could be wrong, though.
So far, the count is 3 scriptures, with one flat out saying it, the other two giving no option in the matter but free choice, it would seem to be clear on.
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#62 three scriptures were given -- Heb. 11:6, and Acts 17:27. Heb. 11:6 can be used for the no choice side of the debate. Again, that verse depends upon one's view coming into the fray. Acts 17:27 is used the same way. So is Rom. 11:25
I agree with you, and with Saber on this topic, but these scriptures are used by the other camp. Obviously, then, there's issue with them being used for free choice. We are still at one blunt scripture, and two "no other option" scriptures, to use that phrase freely in this case.
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#65 was my post that you took issue with in which I stated that no one gave scripture for the free choice side of the debate.
Yes, I used a broad stroke of the brush and painted all with it, errantly. My apologies. Thank you for the correction.
However, it seems that very little indeed was actually given from scripture that flat out states free choice. So far, "free choice" has 3, but only one undeniable scripture by the other camp. "no choice" has a lot more than three. It was upon this that I made my statement. Sorry.
It looks like there's been a few given since then. But is there a whole slug of them, or not?
Surf Rider, I don't agree with you about how many scriptures here prove we have a choice. More scriptures are posted in this thread that proves choice then what you say there is. No scripture in the Bible proves Calvinism. And I have to stand up with DiDasKaLos on this, because you come off confusing on the topic. You sound indecisive about what you believe, even though you say you don't believe in Calvinism, it is as if you sometimes defend it. You not only are confusing to the reader on what you believe, but it also a bit confusing on your attitude to some of us here.
Now, for the scriptures that prove a choice....all the scriptures I posted about why people don't believe, those are scriptures about people with a choice.
They love darkness instead of light because their deeds are evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. That's a choice. They don't come to the light out of fear.... These are the words of God.
They are stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, and they always resist the Holy Ghost. They chose to resist the Holy Ghost.
They are obstinate people, who walk in ways not good, pursuing their own imaginations-- They chose to walk in ways not good and pursue their own imaginations. They decided what they would do.
They do evil in God's sight and chose what displeases Him. This scripture even says they "chose"!!!
That which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, This whole passage is about how they chose!!!
They exchange the truth of God for a lie. This is a choice. Show me how it isn't.
They are self-seeking and they reject the truth and follow evil. To reject is a choice. To follow evil is a choice.
They do not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God. Not thinking something is worthwhile...that's a choice.
They are hostile to God. Being hostile is a choice.
They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. Refusing is a choice, so is loving.
They have been deceived by sin. I think they allowed themselves to be deceived by sin.
The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. I think they allowed the god of this age to blind them.
Their minds are on earthly things. They chose what they put their minds on.
When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. They could choose harder to search for the Truth.
There are those who hear the word of God but the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved. And there are those who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away. There are those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by life’s worries, riches and pleasures, and they do not mature. They choose to fall away. They chose to give up!!!
They are stubborn and follow their own devices. They chose what devices to follow. Does the scripture say they were forced? No.
They are stubborn; the sinews of their neck are iron, their forehead are bronze. They choose to be stubborn.
They have stubborn and rebellious hearts; they have turned aside and gone away. They choose to be rebellious.
They do not listen or pay attention; instead, they follow the stubborn inclinations of their evil hearts. They go backward and not forward. They choose to follow the the stubborn inclinations of their evil hearts.
They have stubborn pride. They choose to be stubborn and prideful.
They refuse to give up their evil practices and stubborn ways. They chose to refuse.
Stubborn like a heifer. How then can the LORD pasture them like lambs in a meadow? They chose to be like a heifer and not like a lamb.
John 3; Acts 7:51; Isaiah 65:2; Isaiah 65:11,12; Romans 1:19-21; Romans 1:25; Romans 2:8; Romans 1:28; Romans 8:7; 2 Thessalonians 2:10; Hebrews 3:13; 2 Corinthians 4:3-4; Philippians 3:19;
Matthew 13:19; Luke 8:11-16; Psalm 81:12; Isaiah 48:4; Jeremiah 5:23; Jeremiah 7:24: Leviticus 26:19; Judges 2:19; Hosea 4:16
How did you miss all those?