All the fulness of Deity dwells in Him Bodily !

[justbyfaith]

No there is not always a reconciliation -

I tend to disagree with you....and would say that the burden of proof is on you.

"The Father" ... something Jesus claimed not to be many many many times..

Again, the burden of proof is on you here.

These passages in Revelation make it clear that Jesus is God. Remember it is Jesus in the NT who is Coming back to earth that every eye will see. It was Jesus who was pierced on the cross for our sins. John is clearly once again calling Jesus God!!!!!!! The Coming and the coming in the clouds never refers to the Father in the NT but always to Jesus.


Revelation 1:7-8
7 BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.
8 "I Am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."


We know from Revelation 1:8 that Alpha and Omega is the Almighty. So we can see that Christ is the Almighty


Revelation 1:17
17And when I saw Him, I fell at his feet as dead. And He laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I Am the first and the last:

We know from Revelation 1:17-18 that the first and the last is He that lives, was dead but is alive forevermore is Christ.

Revelation 2:8
"To the angel of the church in Smyrna write: These are the words of him who is the First and the Last, who died and came to life again.

Revelation 22:12-13
12 "Behold, I Am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done. 13 "I Am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."

We know from Revelation 22:13 that the first and the last is the Alpha and Omega.

Revelation 22:16,20
16 "I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star."
20 He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I Am coming quickly." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.

The immediate text clearly tells us that it was Jesus who was pierced and who is Coming in the clouds. This person coming in the clouds is God(Jesus-the Son of Man),

Daniel 7:13-14
And behold, with the clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man was coming,
And He came up to the Ancient of Days
And was presented before Him.
14 "And to Him was given dominion,
Glory and a kingdom,
That all the peoples, nations and men of every language
Might serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion
Which will not pass away;
And His kingdom is one
Which will not be destroyed.

Matthew 24:30-31
30 "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.

Matthew 26:64
Jesus said to him, "You have said it yourself; nevertheless I tell you, hereafter you will see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN."

1 Thessalonians 4:17-18
Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

Revelation 1:7-8
7 BEHOLD, HE IS COMING WITH THE CLOUDS, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.
8 "I Am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."

So we can see that the One who comes/is coming in the NT always refers to Jesus the Son of Man and NEVER refers to the Father. Therefore we can conclude it is Jesus who is coming whom John calls God the Alpha and Omega. This is sound biblical exegesis based on the context of the passage as well as the principle established in both Testaments on the One who is Coming in/with the Clouds- The Son of Man not the Father !!!!!!


Isaiah 44:6
Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel
And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
'I am the first and I am the last,
And there is no God besides Me.

Isaiah 48:12
"Listen to Me, O Jacob, even Israel whom I called;
I am He, I am the first, I am also the last.


hope this helps !!!

This idea that Jesus Was the Father . was not part of the Equation.

There is one Lord in holy scripture (Ephesians 4:5, Mark 12:29); even the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21). Yet, no one can say that Jesus is the Lord except by the Spirit of truth (1 Corinthians 12:3 (kjv).

And Jesus is the one Lord (1 Corinthians 8:6).

Therefore, since the Father is the "Lord of heaven and earth", I conclude that Jesus and the Father are the same Lord; since there is one Lord and not two.

If Jesus and the Father are separate Lords, then that is two Lords; a concept that is contrary to holy scripture (Ephesians 4:5, Mark 12:29, 1 Corinthians 8:6).

Since Jesus and the Father are the same Lord; how then is Jesus not the Father?

Projection is a psychological defense mechanism in which individuals attribute characteristics they find unacceptable in themselves to another person.

I have not said that the flood of Noah never occurred...and therefore what is written in 2 Peter 3:3-6 does not apply to me...although it applies to you for that you have denied the flood of Noah.

 

[ChristisGod]

I am a sinner yes! God be merciful to ME A SINNER

shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? may it never be !

Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.

If you know that He is righteous, you also know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him.

Beloved, do not imitate what is evil, but what is good. The one who does good is of God; the one who does evil has not seen God.

The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Heyzeus]

I tend to disagree with you....and would say that the burden of proof is on you.

Again, the burden of proof is on you here.

Burden of proof has been met over and over again .. just every time you see it .. you go running to other scripture -- like you will do when I post - yet again - the proof.

My God - My God - Why have you forsaken me - Take This cup from my hand

We will start with those - and then move on to "You are my son who I am well pleased with"

 

[justbyfaith]

Hi @Christophany,

playing devil's advocate here...

Psa 51:3, For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.

Luk 18:9, And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
Luk 18:10, Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
Luk 18:11, The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12, I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
Luk 18:13, And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
Luk 18:14, I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

 

[justbyfaith]

Burden of proof has been met over and over again .. just every time you see it .. you go running to other scripture -- like you will do when I post - yet again - the proof.

My God - My God - Why have you forsaken me - Take This cup from my hand

We will start with those - and then move on to "You are my son who I am well pleased with"

These contentions are answered in posts #1-#6 of the following thread:

True Trinity.

 

[ChristisGod]

Hi @Christophany,

playing devil's advocate here...

Psa 51:3, For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.

Luk 18:9, And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
Luk 18:10, Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
Luk 18:11, The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12, I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
Luk 18:13, And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
Luk 18:14, I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

There is a HUGE difference between committing a sin and the practice of habitual sinning. That is the distinction made in my previous post.

shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? may it never be !

Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.

If you know that He is righteous, you also know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him.

Beloved, do not imitate what is evil, but what is good. The one who does good is of God; the one who does evil has not seen God.

The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

 

[Heyzeus]

shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? may it never be !

Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.

I know Jesus is said to be "Born of God" - but are you talking humans as well ? - and is this all of humanity or just those that are baptized ?

Other than Jesus - the rest of those claiming to be "Born Again" continue to go on sinning ... every single one.

 

[justbyfaith]

I know Jesus is said to be "Born of God" - but are you talking humans as well ? - and is this all of humanity or just those that are baptized ?

Other than Jesus - the rest of those claiming to be "Born Again" continue to go on sinning ... every single one.

If anyone actually succeeded at stopping sinning....you can be certain that they wouldn't advertise it; because of 1 John 1:8.

 

[justbyfaith]

Charles Finney was a man in history who preached salvation from sin; and his anointing would indicate that he had at the very least a great degree of victory over sin in his own life.

An OnLine site for the Complete WORKS of CHARLES G. FINNEY

 

[kcnalp]

I didn't say that .. So we have 1) bearing false witness .. while 2) at the same time pointing to yet another person and claiming - "You are going to Hell" on that basis.

Jesus would be proud of your usurping of his position on the basis of falsehood ... keep up the good fight :)

Well you know if you would say what you believe instead of riding the fence you might not have this problem.

 

[kcnalp]

No, I quoted Jesus..you heard it from him.

You need to ask him what he meant...

And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.


And be objective when you ask him.

Again, you insist Jesus wasn't good! Pity you when you face Him on Judgment Day.

 

[kcnalp]

If a non Christian person is in a coma and not sinning are they righteous or good?

If not, what disqualifies them?

What disqualifies the sinless fetus or infant from righteousness?

Just being human and a non-divine Spirit.

Jesus was saying per God's standards, only the Spirit God is good,... not even the first Adam before he fell.

Thank God I wasn't one of your "Bible" students.

 

[kcnalp]

Fact is, sinlessness humanity is not the qualification for good per God's standard of "good".

Oh my goodness!

 

[kcnalp]

Thomas did not mean God, as in the supreme deity who created the universe and all things within, seen and unseen.

Should we believe you or Thomas who knew Jesus personally?
John 20 Thomas said to Jesus, "My Lord and my God".

 

[FollowHim]

You're just speaking in riddles FH. Why don't you use your own logic and just say, maybe, Thomas did not mean God, as in the supreme deity who created the universe and all things within, seen and unseen. All the expressions that are used in the Bible that refer to God, have also been used for entities that are not God - the Father, the creator of the universe. And thus, maybe Thomas meant god in purpose, not God in essence.

John 10:34-36
10:34. Jesus answered them, "Has it not been written in your Law, 'I said, you are gods' (theoi)? 35. "If he called them gods (theous), to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), 36. do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God'?

Psalms 82:6
I said, "You are gods (elohim), And all of you are sons of the Most High.

There is a problem here. If to you I am speaking in riddles then it is the experience you have that gives you insight to the words spoken.
The problem with us as humans is we think we are driven by our conclusions, but it is summaries and our emotional convictions that define our truth.
When I was young, I thought I could not betray myself, until I realised who I was, as a total person was designed to keep me stable within my current state and not find the truth. So whatever I thought or progressed, if it created instability I could not go there.

Our whole perception of everything is not free and unbound, like Pharoah our priorities and loyalties define how we act and what we accept.
We think we decide, while actually it is our foundations that decide for us. Jesus came to establish a different set of relationships, which define how we are, starting from us becoming like a child, and being built again from the ground up. Everything we are is learnt and built upon the world or upon Jesus. It is this foundation that determines our ultimate conclusions.

What are the issues Jesus criticised the pharisees for missing? Mercy, justice and faithfulness. We are so quick to break things that should not be compromised, to drop things because it is easy, to ignore situations because it costs less. But our fragility and this breaking of essential points, is the foundation of our failure, and learning these things are essential. Gods word only has value because He will keep it. Imagine if it was just an illusion, of what value would it be, how could it transform or even hint at who God is. Yet for us to change and lie is like a leaf blown in the wind, we count it as a minor thing, until we understand it is how we communicate and bring order to the world and society.

So when Thomas says "My Lord and my God" he means it. And to those who devalue Gods word and those who speak it, woe to them, for on that day they will answer to the King whose word it is. I have met so many who wish harm to me, who espouse sin and punishment for listening to Jesus, but I do listen and I do hear. And I do fear, for I know in His hand my whole life lies, and upon Him do I have everything He has taught me.

What can I have to lose if I am listening to Jesus? Nothing. If Jesus speaks, amen eternally. But to those who build their house on their own emotional drives, gnashing of teeth and weeping is their end. The warnings are clear, and the path to life for all who are willing to hear.
God bless you

 

[Heyzeus]

If anyone actually succeeded at stopping sinning....you can be certain that they wouldn't advertise it; because of 1 John 1:8.

Why do you call me good :) .. we all sin .. not sure where Christoph was coming from.

 

[justbyfaith]

Why do you call me good :) .. we all sin .. not sure where Christoph was coming from.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God (1 John 3:9).

Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not; no one who sins has seen him, neither known him (1 John 3:6).

The lust of this world is passing away; and he that doeth the will of the Lord abideth for ever (1 John 2:17).

 

[Heyzeus]

Well you know if you would say what you believe instead of riding the fence you might not have this problem.

You are the one one riding the fence - and now projecting your character traits onto others in an effort to evade. .. You are the one sentence wonder - not clarifying nor supporting your claims .. repetition of premise fallacy on steroids.

What fence would you like to ride today - Mr. Messiah - the one who thinks he knows who get's in and gets out.. and anyone who doesn't agree with his perspective is a Demon from Hell !!! Church loved your kind in the middle ages .. burn em all up yeah !

 

[DNB]

Should we believe you or Thomas who knew Jesus personally?
John 20 Thomas said to Jesus, "My Lord and my God".

...the question is, should we believe you, ...on anything?

 

[justbyfaith]

...the question is, should we believe you, ...on anything?

I think that @kcnalp is a very credible source...I have never seen him preach any kind of false doctrine.