If Baptism could save then there is no need for the shed Blood of Jesus.

[Truther]

It is my understanding that water baptism represents dying to self, aka ongoing sanctification or following Jesus to the cross, the grave, and to glory. Shalom.

Repentance is death.

Baptism is the burial of the dead.

It is impossible to be born again without the death and burial first.

 

[mailmandan]

You skipped Acts 2:38.

Very clever, Dan.

I skipped it for a reason to show you there are many more verses in the book of Acts other than Acts 2:38, your pet verse.

I presume that you would walk around mountains of grace in order to find water.

 

[101G]

For by grace we "have been" (past tense with ongoing present results) saved through faith.. (Ephesians 2:8) Believers are saved now and have been saved from the PENALTY of sin (justification) are being saved from the POWER of sin (ongoing sanctification) and will be saved from the PRESENCE of sin (glorification)

first thanks for the reply, second, we're sealed until his returen to recieved our new bodies, then we're saved ETERNALLY. as we speak, we're kept,
yes, we're saved by faith, which is HOPE. scripture, Romans 8:24 "For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?" (BINGO, if you are already saved NOW, (eternal fife), why are you still hoping/by Faith for it?...... well).
Romans 8:25 "But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it." so are you waiting? yea, I thought so, as all of us, dead or alive.

it's by FAITH that we're saved? and what is Faith? answer, Hebrews 11:1 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." just as the apostle stated above... "Faith is the substance of things ________ For", there it is, as said it you already have it why hope for it. yes, one is saved right now by FAITH, by guarantee, (which is solid), but RIGHT NOW you're not living eternally, NOT NOW. if you want evidence, just keep on living for a while, and if the Lord Jesus haven't returned yet, see what will happen to you. ... (yes) in the ground. but, that's why there is a resurrection. if all who died went stright to heaven and recieved their new bodies... why a need to resurrecti? answer, because they are waiting just like all of us.

see mailmandan, you're saved by FAITH, in that we all have that guarantee of SALVATION, because we all have the same assurance of that salvation, THE HOLY SPIRIT.

Joel 2:32 "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call." (delieverance here is SALVATION)


Acts 2:21 "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved."

Romans 10:13 "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

shall is a FUTURE TENSE desigination. that's where FATH comes in at until the Lord returns. BINGO.

REMEMBER, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Jaxxi]

If Baptism could save then there is no need for the shed Blood of Jesus.

Baptism alone is not what saves us. No man was saved until Jesus went to hell for 3 days and gathered the worthy souls and was Resurrected! Before Jesus came to earth, no human souls went to heaven except for Enoch but that was temporary.

We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. Romans 6:4

 

[Truther]

I skipped it for a reason to show you there are many more verses in the book of Acts other than Acts 2:38, your pet verse.

I presume that you would walk around mountains of grace in order to find water.

You also skipped Acts 8, 10 and 19 where folks were very specifically commanded to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ...

....all stemming from Peter saying baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of their sins in 2:38.

You skipped it all and offered an alternative view by cherry picking.

Go back to Acts 2:38(the original instruction) and build on that.

Acts 2:38 is grace,

 

[Eternally Grateful]

one word, obedience

now you think!! if a rope can save you, why would you need a recure worker, if you have fell into a ravine?. well.....

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

And here in lies the problem

If we could grab the rope and save ourselves this would be a good saying

but we can’t grab the rope. God has to grab us and pull us. But only if we are willing he will not pull against our will

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Water baptism is an initiation into the faith of Jesus Christ and we appropriate the blood of Jesus through it.

Just compare Acts of the Apostles 22:16 and Hebrews 9:22; and you will see that the blood of Jesus is applied at baptism.

Um no

we appropriate the blood through faith and God himself baptized us into Christ where our sins are washed

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No, it does however put him on to the journey of Salvation and puts an indelible mark on his soul. Remember baptism is an act of God not of man

Water baptism is an act of God? Since when?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

@Yan,

Jesus did not use Beelzebub to cast out demons; He was accused of doing that by the Pharisees as a disparagement on His ministry. And Jesus responded by saying that they were in danger of committing the unpardonable sin.

He actually cast out demons by the Spirit of God.

Yep just like he baptized us. With the spirit of God

 

[101G]

And here in lies the problem

If we could grab the rope and save ourselves this would be a good saying

but we can’t grab the rope. God has to grab us and pull us. But only if we are willing he will not pull against our will

I think I said that.

God has provided a way if we take it. the blood is the rope, and God is the rescue worker.

as the apostle Peter said in Acts "SAVE", yourselves? how by wanting to be saved, call out. for whosoever "call" on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Acts 2:40 "And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation."

REMEMBER, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Mungo]

R

That's not what Paul said in Romans 3:24-28.

Rom 3:24-28 does not contradicts what I said.

 

[Mungo]

There are numerous passages of scripture that teach man is saved through belief/faith "apart from additions or modifications." See post #58. *Now you don't need to add the word "alone" next to "belief/faith" in each of these passages of scripture above in order to figure out that the words, "belief/faith" stand alone in connection with receiving eternal life/salvation. Do these many passages of scripture say belief/faith "plus something else?" Plus works? NO. So then it's belief/faith (rightly understood) IN CHRIST ALONE.

In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3) Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.

When James says faith "alone" he is talking about an empty profession of faith/dead faith (James 2:14) which remains alone - "barren of works." Not to be confused with faith that trusts in Christ alone for salvation. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9)

I repeat nowhere does Paul, inspired by the Holy Spirit, claim that we are saved by faith alone.

Jesus said He who believes and is baptized will be saved (Mk 16:16)
Peter wrote Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you (1Pet 3:21)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I think I said that.

God has provided a way if we take it. the blood is the rope, and God is the rescue worker.

as the apostle Peter said in Acts "SAVE", yourselves? how by wanting to be saved, call out. for whosoever "call" on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Acts 2:40 "And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation."

REMEMBER, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures , God Holy Word.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

Nope

Your example is flawed, it has you having the ability to hold the work, to climb up it, you do not have that ability.

God has to come, take you i to His arms and carry you out.

your trying to help God, STOP. You will fail, your in essence telling God sure, I need saved, send me the rope so I can save myself

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I repeat nowhere does Paul, inspired by the Holy Spirit, claim that we are saved by faith alone.

Jesus said He who believes and is baptized will be saved (Mk 16:16)
Peter wrote Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you (1Pet 3:21)

I hope your joking, he said it multiple times, most noticeably Eph 1-2 and titus 3

 

[justbyfaith]

For by grace we "have been" (past tense with ongoing present results) saved through faith.. (Ephesians 2:8)

Actually, in Ephesians 2:8, it says, "For by grace are ye saved (?) through faith..."

I like to place the "?" in there as an evangelistic plea to those who may think that they are saved but aren't. The Holy Spiirit is most certainly able to cast doubt on a false assurance as He pleases to do so.

I presume that you would walk around mountains of grace in order to find water.

Water is indeed a life-giving element (see Revelation 22:17)

Um no

we appropriate the blood through faith and God himself baptized us into Christ where our sins are washed

Sins are washed away in baptism (Acts of the Apostles 22:16); while there is no remission of sins apart from the shedding of blood (Hebrews 9:22). What blood is applied in baptism if not the blood of Jesus?

Yep just like he baptized us. With the spirit of God

I would just say to this that there are many who hold on to these kinds of statements in the hopes that they can get to heaven apart from water baptism; but that what they are doing is that they are gambling on eternity. If baptism does in fact save, these people are rejecting a means by which they will not suffer in hell for all of eternity.

Now I do not teach that a person cannot go to heaven by faith apart from baptism. But I will say that a salvation that comes from mere faith is iffy at best.

Those who believe and are baptized "shall be saved." (Mark 16:16).

Those who merely believe "should not perish" (John 3:16).

Those who call upon the name of the Lord "shall be saved." (Romans 10:13).

 

[Renniks]

Yes baptism is symbolic. It symbolises what Jesus is doing for us. But what he does for us happens in baptism.
When we come to Jesus in baptism he forgives our sins, we are renewed by the Holy Spirit, we come into the New Covenant and members Christ's body, the Church. We are dying to our old life and rising to a new one.

So, you aren't saved before you are baptized? The thief on the cross could not have gone to paradise if that were true.
The verse in Peter plainly says that the water doesn't save you, so how can you have it both ways?
There's lots of people that come to God on their death beds and can't be baptized. Is God going to tell them "Sorry, too bad! It was all about the water!"

 

[justbyfaith]

So, you aren't saved before you are baptized? The thief on the cross could not have gone to paradise if that were true.
The verse in Peter plainly says that the water doesn't save you, so how can you have it both ways?
There's lots of people that come to God on their death beds and can't be baptized. Is God going to tell them "Sorry, too bad! It was all about the water!"

Again, if they merely believed, they "should not perish." (John 3:16)

 

[Renniks]

Again, if they merely believed, they "should not perish." (John 3:16)

What is the difference between being saved and not perishing?

 

[justbyfaith]

What is the difference between being saved and not perishing?

No difference. I am emphasizing the "should" versus the "shall" in the verses in question (Mark 16:16, John 3:16, Romans 10:13).

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Sins are washed away in baptism (Acts of the Apostles 22:16); while there is no remission of sins apart from the shedding of blood (Hebrews 9:22). What blood is applied in baptism if not the blood of Jesus?

no blood is applied at water baptism, but blood is applied when we are literally baptized into the death of Christ by God himself,

I would just say to this that there are many who hold on to these kinds of statements in the hopes that they can get to heaven apart from water baptism; but that what they are doing is that they are gambling on eternity. If baptism does in fact save, these people are rejecting a means by which they will not suffer in hell for all of eternity.

What worries me is people who replace the baptism of God with baptism in water and think they are saved, the OT taught that without circumcision no one could make it to heaven we see as with all the law this was just a symbolic teaching took of a time when we would be spiritually circumcised by the hand of God, which of course is done through baptism, which is a work of God who raised him from the dead (col 2)

the pharisee tries to Claim Jesus did his work by the hand of Satan, because they did not believe, Jesus called them in danger of blasphemy against the spirit and unforgivable sin. What is the difference with those trying to say we are baptized by an in water, in place of the HS in Christ. You should worry my friend,

Now I do not teach that a person cannot go to heaven by faith apart from baptism. But I will say that a salvation that comes from mere faith is iffy at best.

Those who believe and are baptized "shall be saved." (Mark 16:16).

Those who merely believe "should not perish" (John 3:16).

Those who call upon the name of the Lord "shall be saved." (Romans 10:13).

there is nothing in Mark 16 that even hints at water baptism,

I did believe, and I was baptized (by God) and later, obeyed God by being immersed in eater, but I was saved long before that event, and would remain saved even if I died before that event