Peter identifies Jesus as our God and Savior

[101G]

Father, Son and Holy Spirit all make up the ONE true God of the Bible. Call the doctrine whatever you like. Why do people try to "figure out" our infinite God of the Bible.

there is no math/"figure out" involved, scripture, Romans 1:19 "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them."
Romans 1:20 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"

so there is no "EXCUSE" in not knowing the Godhead, it's right there in the bible.

REMEMBER, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[ChristisGod]

Yes, we agree on the humanity of Christ, and I imagine, but maybe not, the full necessity of that - the Resurrection and Atonement are only effectuated in a viable manner if he were so - and, falls apart if he's something other than 200% man.

And yes, our differences lay in the matter of Jesus being God. Without going into a long thesis, or repeating myself from other threads, I think that your 2nd paragraph sums up the nature of the controversy - the trinitarian conclusion is so incomprehensible, implausible and even contradictory, that we cannot regard or esteem God or Jesus in this manner, nor the revelation of this in His Word.

I would like to discuss in a respectful manner like with have done in 2 Peter 1:1 , 2 Peter 1:11 and discuss some other passages as well if you are up for it. If so can we move to Titus 2:13 ?

This passage is most like 2 Peter 1:1 in the N.T. Let me know if you would agree with that and then you can choose a passage and we can proceed with a respectful discussion and work our way through some passages.

Thanks DNB.

 

[kcnalp]

1?!

The name is YHWH is salvation.

And how did they obey Jesus' command, Matt 28 "baptizing them in the NAME (singular) of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit."?

Acts 2:38 (NKJV)
38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins;

 

[kcnalp]

Change the batteries in your calculator, very soon, it's making you look inept!!!

"Name" is singular. That's why they baptized ONLY in the Name of Jesus.

 

[kcnalp]

there is no math/"figure out" involved, scripture, Romans 1:19 "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them."
Romans 1:20 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"

so there is no "EXCUSE" in not knowing the Godhead, it's right there in the bible.

REMEMBER, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

And there's no excuse for deleting "God the Father" 16 times from the NT.

 

[101G]

And how did they obey Jesus' command, Matt 28 "baptizing them in the NAME (singular) of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit."?

Acts 2:38 (NKJV)
38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins;

there is that rope, and the obediencee to the FAITH... "REPENT".

REMEMBER, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[kcnalp]

there is that rope, and the obediencee to the FAITH... "REPENT".

I'm not the one who chopped Jesus, "the Son of God" out of the Bible. You did.

REMEMBER, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

Is that why you chop "God the Father" out of the NT 16 times?

 

[CharismaticLady]

No, that wasn't an accusation at all. It was an attempt to further clarify my position so that if you chose to engage any further, you don't conclude, for example, that I feel that one can be saved as a trinitarian (that kind of assumption).
I've made many assumptions about people being trinitarian, for example, because they said that Jesus was God, when it turned out that they were modalist - I wasted quite a few posts addressing the issue from a wrong angle.

That's all that I was trying to say. Sorry for confusion. Thanks!

Okay, again I'm going to the horse's mouth. Do you believe a Trinitarian can be saved? I'm not sure I'm reading your words correctly.

 

[DNB]

so your on the fence...
that was a joke....
have you bothered to study any of the theologians who wrote about the doctrine?
how do you explain the Divinity of Christ, the Holy Spirit and Father, while holding to the idea that God is one?

That was funny!
I've read briefly on the Patristic period and up to the Reformation, just excerpts actually, and watched many modern debates on the subject.
Aspen, from start to finish, this is the most ignoble doctrine in all of Christendom. It defames God's ontology by ascribing redundancy to the Godhead - 3 all powerful beings, when only one is required to create and maintain the universe, and intervene with all its inhabitants. The utter absurdity of the Atonement where God first loves and obeys himself (requirement of perfection), resurrects Himself from the dead, thus propitiating Himself, in order to circumvent His own wrath? Then seats Himself beside Himself, in order to exalt Himself for His efforts - as if He wasn't there already.

The Biblical attestation indicts God also for His lack of providence and solicitude, in imparting the doctrine explicitly. For, no where in Scripture are found the requisite terminology: three-in-one, triune, two-in-one natures, incarnation, hypostatic union, god-man, God the Son, eternally begotten, ... and this being the most enigmatic, incomprehensible and confusing doctrine of them all, would require the most explicit and didactic explanation?
Not one conversion that took place in the NT, even mentions a triune formula on any level, ever. Nor is the Holy Spirit ever given the same amount of prominence, exaltation, or worship as God first, then Christ. Extreme imbalance, definitely not equal on any level.

Of all the doxologies, prayers, communication and worship, of the most prominent men of the OT, not one even intimates that God is three. And the Psalms of King David, or the insights of Job, the exaltations of Isaiah, Jeremiah, etc are some of the most definitive passages on God's character and essence,...
etc.....

Thus, there is no explanation required as to the divinity of Christ and the Holy Spirit, for Christ is not divine nor is the Holy Spirit a person. There is only one being in the entire universe that is divine, and that is God the Father.

 

[Enoch111]

I would like to discuss in a respectful manner...

Why are people wasting their time trying to convince someone who is adamantly OPPOSED to the truth? Jesus never did that. He simply called them out. See Matthew 23.

 

[DNB]

I would like to discuss in a respectful manner like with have done in 2 Peter 1:1 , 2 Peter 1:11 and discuss some other passages as well if you are up for it. If so can we move to Titus 2:13 ?

This passage is most like 2 Peter 1:1 in the N.T. Let me know if you would agree with that and then you can choose a passage and we can proceed with a respectful discussion and work our way through some passages.

Thanks DNB.

Well, like I said, I am fully aware of the trinitarian support text. Thomas said 'my lord and my god', Jesus said 'before Abraham was, I am', Titus and Peter both at one singular point in their epistles, use an expression that easily could be conveyed as God is the saviour Jesus Christ. THere's The carmen christi, the disputed Comma Johanneum, Emmanuel, I and the Father are one, the seven I am statements, plurality of Elohim, Let us create man.. in Genesis, the Lord said to my lord, etc...

Yes, Titus 2:13 and 2 Peter 1:1 are identical, and both in their isolated context, can appear to say that Jesus is God and saviour. But any Greek scholar knows that there are no reserved words for the Almighty God the father, in Scripture. YHWH is, but not ehyeh nor ego eimi, nor hashem, elohim, kurios, theos, abba, adonai, ...

 

[DNB]

"Name" is singular. That's why they baptized ONLY in the Name of Jesus.

Matthew 28:19-19
28:19. "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,

 

[DNB]

Okay, again I'm going to the horse's mouth. Do you believe a Trinitarian can be saved? I'm not sure I'm reading your words correctly.

No, a trinitarian cannot be saved, nor a modalist, nor anyone that worships any other being rather than God the Father, as God.

 

[aspen]

That was funny!
I've read briefly on the Patristic period and up to the Reformation, just excerpts actually, and watched many modern debates on the subject.
Aspen, from start to finish, this is the most ignoble doctrine in all of Christendom. It defames God's ontology by ascribing redundancy to the Godhead - 3 all powerful beings, when only one is required to create and maintain the universe, and intervene with all its inhabitants. The utter absurdity of the Atonement where God first loves and obeys himself (requirement of perfection), resurrects Himself from the dead, thus propitiating Himself, in order to circumvent His own wrath? Then seats Himself beside Himself, in order to exalt Himself for His efforts - as if He wasn't there already.

The Biblical attestation indicts God also for His lack of providence and solicitude, in imparting the doctrine explicitly. For, no where in Scripture are found the requisite terminology: three-in-one, triune, two-in-one natures, incarnation, hypostatic union, god-man, God the Son, eternally begotten, ... and this being the most enigmatic, incomprehensible and confusing doctrine of them all?
Not one conversion that took place in the NT, even mentions a triune formula on any level, ever. Nor is the Holy Spirit ever given the same amount of prominence, exaltation, or worship as God first, then Christ. Extreme imbalance, definitely not equal on any level.

Of all the doxologies, prayers, communication and worship, of the most prominent men of the OT, not one even intimates that God is three. And the Psalms of King David, or the insights of Job, the exaltations of Isaiah, Jeremiah, etc are some of the most definitive passages on God's character and essence,...
etc.....

Thus, there is no explanation required as to the divinity of Christ and the Holy Spirit, for Christ is not divine nor is the Holy Spirit a person. There is only one being in the entire universe that is divine, and that is God the Father.

well, I strongly disagree with you, but I am glad to hear that you have reach your conclusion after doing some research.

 

[sho]

And how did they obey Jesus' command, Matt 28 "baptizing them in the NAME (singular) of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit."?

Acts 2:38 (NKJV)
38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins;

Jesus means YHVH is salvation. All have the same name because they are one and the same spirit.

 

[sho]

Romans 10:13
Joel 2:32

And YHWH is Christ.

next.........................

YHWH is only one person.

 

[sho]

The bible says God is holy and the bible says God is spirit.
That means: the holy spirit is god.

The bible says God is only one and the bible says the father is God.
That means: the father who is the holy spirit is the only one god.

And the bible says Yeshua is the image of God, the visible flesh of the invisible God.
That means: Yeshua is the father/holy spirit in flesh.

 

[Waiting on him]

Jesus reveals Himself as God and Savior. Peter who?[/

you know the one Whom denied Him.

 

[ChristisGod]

Well, like I said, I am fully aware of the trinitarian support text. Thomas said 'my lord and my god', Jesus said 'before Abraham was, I am', Titus and Peter both at one singular point in their epistles, use an expression that easily could be conveyed as God is the saviour Jesus Christ. THere's The carmen christi, the disputed Comma Johanneum, Emmanuel, I and the Father are one, the seven I am statements, plurality of Elohim, Let us create man.. in Genesis, the Lord said to my lord, etc...

Yes, Titus 2:13 and 2 Peter 1:1 are identical, and both in their isolated context, can appear to say that Jesus is God and saviour. But any Greek scholar knows that there are no reserved words for the Almighty God the father, in Scripture. YHWH is, but not ehyeh nor ego eimi, nor hashem, elohim, kurios, theos, abba, adonai, ...

Joel 2:32
32 "And it will come about that whoever calls on the name of the Lord
Will be delivered;
For on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
There will be those who escape,
As the Lord has said,
Even among the survivors whom the Lord calls.

Here we see Paul quote this OT passage about YHWH and apply it to Jesus who is the one and only Lord according to the N.T. See Romans 10:12 and Jude 1:4- the Only Lord.

Rom 10:9-13
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED." 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

So a person must confess Jesus is YHWH(Lord) to be saved. Confess means to agree with so the person confessing Jesus is Lord is in agreement that He is YHWH. Whoever will call upon the name of the Lord ( YHWH) will be saved.

Can you confess Jesus is YHWH ?

If not Paul declares you cannot be saved.

hope this helps !!!

 

[DNB]

Joel 2:32
32 "And it will come about that whoever calls on the name of the Lord
Will be delivered;
For on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
There will be those who escape,
As the Lord has said,
Even among the survivors whom the Lord calls.

Here we see Paul quote this OT passage about YHWH and apply it to Jesus who is the one and only Lord according to the N.T. See Romans 10:12 and Jude 1:4- the Only Lord.

Rom 10:9-13
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED." 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

So a person must confess Jesus is YHWH(Lord) to be saved. Confess means to agree with so the person confessing Jesus is Lord is in agreement that He is YHWH. Whoever will call upon the name of the Lord ( YHWH) will be saved.

Can you confess Jesus is YHWH ?

If not Paul declares you cannot be saved.

hope this helps !!!

No, I will hopefully never, ever confess Jesus as YHWH. I feel that it is blasphemy to do so, and then, of course, one cannot be saved if they do.

Appellations can be shared amongst various entities. Cyrus was called messiah (anointed one), Moses was called god, God is called a rock, King David was a saviour to his people, etc (1 Corinthians 8:5). One cannot correlate identities simply because two different entities, are addressed by the same title. This goes without saying. You can have many presidents, many CEOs, many lords, many saviours. The jurisdiction varies and determines the potency of each. God is the creator of the universe and all that it contains, Jesus has been conferred all authority and power to rule over it, as God's beloved Son.

Again, there are no distinctly reserved words for God in Scripture outside of the specific spelling YHWH, not ehyeh nor ego eimi. Therefore, we cannot define who or what a person is in the Bible, simply by their title. Biblical context and one's domain determines the authority, and thus, the entity, of the person.