Was Adam Imparted Free Will From The Beginning Of Creation?

[Kermos]

ERROR, "see" or "Saw" past tense is the Hebrew word, H7200 רָאָה ra'ah (raw-aw') v.
(literally or figuratively) to see.
{in numerous applications, direct and implied, transitive, intransitive and causative.}
[a primitive root]
KJV: advise self, appear, approve, behold, X certainly, consider, discern, (make to) enjoy, have experience, gaze, take heed, X indeed, X joyfully, lo, look (on, one another, one on another, one upon another, out, up, upon), mark, meet, X be near, perceive, present, provide, regard, (have) respect, (fore-, cause to, let) see(-r, -m, one another), shew (self), X sight of others, (e-)spy, stare, X surely, X think, view, visions.

here "SEE" or the past tense form "saw" was that she made a decision by "CHOICE.". for "see" if one google it means, See can be used figuratively to mean understand. One of Merriam-Webster's definitions of see is "to perceive the meaning or importance of : understand" (definition 3b). For example, if someone explains something to you and you say, "I see," you mean that you understand the explanation.

now that we know "SEE" means to understand, now lets reveal what was said here. If you are speaking in the present tense, then “Do you understand,” is the correct wording. When speaking in the past tense, the correct phrase is “Did you understand.” From what we know of the English language, “do you understand” is typically used when referring to a current event or conversation. so SAW ios a past tense desigination. meaning she had made a "CHOICE".

now by using the past tense use of SEE, which is "SAW", she had made a "DECISION" about the tree as to eat of of it or not. the decision was to "EAT" or "NOT" to EAT.

as the KJV can translate it "Consider", or "discern" which is a choice, just as "desires". I suggest you read this to understand. Desire and pleasure in choice SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class research journals

after reading the short article, Eve said, " and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise". plesant .. BINGO. for eyes here are not your eyes in your head, but.... Ephesians 1:18 "The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,"
THERE IT IS "TO KNOW".

so no, your assessment of the actions taken by Eve are incorrect.

I don't know how many way must I contuine to reprove you and correct you, but this is my last time.

PICJAG.

As an adjunct to my post #121 at the top of this page, "desire" needs to be clarified further.

Establshed Definition Of The Word "Desire" - What It Is And What It Is Not

"Desire" is defined by James as "you desire and do not have" (James 4:2, a cohesive statement expressing the feeling of a state of want for an unpossessed thing), and the dictionary definition of "desire" is "the feeling that accompanies an unsatisfied state" (Princeton University WordNet [2010, accessed 18 May 2020 {opens to wordnetweb.princeton.edu}]). See that the dictionary definition agrees with James' definition of "desire".
Synonyms for "desire" are "lust", "covet", "want", and "longing".

In no place is "choice" nor "choose" a part of the denotation nor connotation of "desire".

The only way to introduce "choice" into the concept of "desire" is by means of a modifier word within a phrase, such as in this manner, "choose desire". In this language construction, an autonomous agent establishes it's own unsatisfied state of being; in other words, the word "choose" means for a person to exercise some force, free-will, to toggle the person's state of being into the meaning of the word "desire". The adjectival use of the word "choose" leaves (1) the word "choose" to retain it's definition of "selection", and (2) the word "desire" to retain it's definition of "the unsatisfied state of not possessing". An external indicator to the word "desire" is required to associate the "choose" concept with "desire".

Simply stated, "desire" is "wanting but not possessing".

So, in Genesis 3:6, the woman's pre-existing state of being was wanting to be wise, and there is no "choice" indicated; therefore, this concurs with the fact there is no indication of free-will for man in the creation account.

 

[Kermos]

@Kermos

You're making it more complicated then it needs to be. Did they have free will before they ate from that tree? Well they did actually, but God doesn't see free will like we understand it. Obviously, they had the freedom to make their own decisions, to obey and disobey. They knew right from wrong and clearly understood it as God plainly laid out the instructions for what they shall and shall not do. But knowing right from wrong is not the same as knowing what is good or holy from what is evil or sin. Something being wrong doesn't make it a sin. The two are entirely different and the latter is the very reason why Jesus was sent to begin with, not the former.

Running a red light may be wrong but it is not a mortal sin against God. From Gods perspective, its not our free will that is the issue, it is our knowledge of sin and the ability to obtain it that is the real issue. God could care less about our ability to choose, and this won't be any different on the new earth to come. What will be different is the complete eradication of sin and the very knowledge of it. From Gods perspective, if we won't have the ability to obtain the knowledge of sin, for it to be conceived within our heart, there is nothing to be concerned about. What happened in the garden had more to do with remembrance, our minds. This is why Isaiah, Jeremiah and John said this:

There are so many things in error about your writing, and here are a few:

1) you attempt to redefine right, as in righteousness and good.

2) you attempt to redefine wrong, as in wicked and evil.

3) you attempt to add to scripture by your writing that Adam and Eve had free will in the absence of scripture stating they had free will. (please see the original post of this thread's item 2.1 and item 2.3)

If a person fails to believe God as revealed in the Word of God, then the person is born of flesh (an unbeliever).

If a person vows that mankind has a free-will to choose God, then such a person disavows the Word of God "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) and "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation).

Please see this link for a thorough essay on this critical matter Almighty God's Awesome Creation In Amazing Splendor

 

[Kermos]

You should learn not to blaspheme the Holy Spirit by claiming that your own personal thoughts and perceptions, are His.

Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is the unforgivable sin (Matthew 12:31).

You accuse me without foundation. I don't interpret Scripture, that is a function of the Holy Spirit (2 Peter 1:20-21).

Free-willians blaspheme against God in the claim to choose God. There is no level that a person can choose Lord Jesus because He said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) - Jesus, being God, did not provide any exception for choosing toward Jesus. Lord Jesus speaks to all believers in all time because He also said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20)! All these words of Jesus are at the same supper! All glory is God's! With man, salvation is impossible (Matthew 19:25-26)! All glory in the salvation of man is God's (John 15:5, Isaiah 42:8, Psalm 3:8)!

There is no indication in Scripture that mankind was created with free-will, and the original post to this thread delineates some proofs.

 

[DNB]

Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is the unforgivable sin (Matthew 12:31).

You accuse me without foundation. I don't interpret Scripture, that is a function of the Holy Spirit (2 Peter 1:20-21).

You just did it again. You are equating your interpretation with that of the Holy Spirit. You sound foolish when you claim that all the words that proceed from your mouth, were inspired by the Holy Spirit. Just say that 'this is my opinion', and not, 'this is the Holy Spirit's opinion'.

 

[Davy]

Was Adam imparted free will from the beginning of Creation?
....

Not really how it was. God foreknew Adam and Eve would sin against Him simply because that is what the 'flesh' causes...

Rom 7:18-25
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
KJV

Gal 3:22
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
KJV

God knew the imperfect nature of Adam and Eve's flesh. And it had to happen, so that His Salvation through His Son could be offered to those who believe.

This should beg the next question though, as to WHY... God setup man to fail with the flesh. He revealed that too, for those who listen in His Word.

 

[101G]

God knew the imperfect nature of Adam and Eve's flesh. And it had to happen, so that His Salvation through His Son could be offered to those who believe.

not saying that you're right or wrong, but consider this. as you said, "it "HAD" to happen. it was a matter of time, but for it to happen, they was given a choice, supportive scripture, Genesis 2:16 "And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:"

well that nailed it for me. "thou mayest freely eat". when God said that, THOU .... MAY .... "FREELY" ... EAT? game over.

for it was as we both agree, a matter of time.... supportive scripture, Romans 8:20 "For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,"

that again confirm my understanding. "made subject", ....... that equate choice.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Kermos]

The point is not about Eve having a choice is it?

The assertion would be that Eve was always eating of that tree without any result at all.

Timtofly, it appears that you really need to read the Bible!

It is written "Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loin coverings. They heard the sound of the YHWH God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the YHWH God among the trees of the garden" (Genesis 3:7-8).

Your "assertion" about Eve is proven to be foolhardy.

Now, as the original post proves, there is no indication of free-will for Adam. Man conjures up free-will in order to form a God out of man's thoughts because free-will for man is not supported by scripture.

The theology of free-will of man leads to destruction because free-willians do not believe in the God revealed by the Word of God.

There is no level that a person can choose Lord Jesus because He said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16) as well as "I chose you out of the world" (John 15:19, includes salvation) - Jesus, being God, did not provide any exception for choosing toward Jesus. Lord Jesus speaks to all believers in all time because He also said "I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word" (John 17:20)! All these words of Jesus are at the same supper! All glory is God's! With man, salvation is impossible (Matthew 19:25-26)! All glory in the salvation of man is God's (John 15:5, Isaiah 42:8, Psalm 3:8)!

 

[Davy]

not saying that you're right or wrong, but consider this. as you said, "it "HAD" to happen. it was a matter of time, but for it to happen, they was given a choice, supportive scripture, Genesis 2:16 "And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:"

well that nailed it for me. "thou mayest freely eat". when God said that, THOU .... MAY .... "FREELY" ... EAT? game over.

for it was as we both agree, a matter of time.... supportive scripture, Romans 8:20 "For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,"

that again confirm my understanding. "made subject", ....... that equate choice.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

The matter goes beyond what you're pointing to. You have to consider what Lucifer did in the old world before Adam and Eve, and why Paul said the reason was for Jesus coming to die on the cross, since He was ordained for that before... the foundation of this world. I see too many brethren with their thinking in only this present world of flesh and not understanding about the previous world when Satan committed the very first sin against God. This present world is not meant to be the time of God's eternal Kingdom to manifest, for that is about the world to come when Jesus returns, and He begins to release His creation from its state of bondage He put it in for today. Even before Adam and Eve had eaten from the tree of good and evil, they were not perfect, because the seed of sin was in their flesh, which is why Paul said flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, neither does corruption inherit incorruption.

Later Bible translations get away from understanding this, and instead use 'humanist' type language instead of telling it like it really is like the KJV does (the Romans 7 scripture I quoted before). Christ's Salvation is not a salvation of the flesh, but of our spirit.

 

[101G]

You have to consider what Lucifer did in the old world before Adam and Eve

thanks for the reply, but there was no old world before Adam and Eve.

secondly, satan didn't rebell aganist God before the Garden but decieved Adam and Even in the Garden. now the question you might want to ask way was Satan in the Garden in the First.... answer because God placed him there. remember it was God who place Good and Evil in the Garden. and one other point, Evil is not Sin, but it can cause one to sin, so think about it....

one other note in free will in to choose. one cannot have a free will to choice unless one have at least two things to choose from....

Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Davy]

thanks for the reply, but there was no old world before Adam and Eve.

Yes there was, you just haven't realized it yet from God's Word. By the time Satan as "that old serpent" was tempting Eve, he was already in his role as adversary against God, showing he had already rebelled. In the Ezekiel 28 scripture, God via a parable about the king and prince of Tyrus, used that to point to Satan in the old world before he rebelled, when he once served God and was perfect in his ways. It is easy to know God was pointing to Satan in those passages, because God referred that about a heavenly cherub who's purpose was a covering cherub, meaning a guardian of God's throne.

Rev 12:3-4
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
KJV

The above beast system happened back when Satan first rebelled in the old world, which is when he drew a third of those stars (angels) to earth with him. That is why that old beast system had 'seven crowns'. The Rev.13 beast system which is for the end of this world is to have 'ten crowns', so it is not the same one. And the Revelation 12:7-17 events are for the end of this present world.

 

[101G]

@Davy
ERROR, Revelation chapter 12 is revealed in Matthew chapter 2. the BIRTH of Christ.

Symbolic Meaning to understand chapter 12
Woman = represent a Church, (the remnant of the Nation, Israel, the church in the wilderness)
Dragon = behind, or in a person, be it representative of a political, or religious power. (Satan is always in the background)
Red in this chapter = blood
Stars = messenger, (human, or angelic)
Sun = the Righteousness of God, (which source is in the Gospel of Christ)
Moon = the Righteousness of God, (which source is in the Mosaic Law)

OF A NOTE: keep one hand on Revelation chapter 12 and the other hand on Matthews chapter 2. "The Brith of Christ".

NOW TO THIS FALL,

Revelation 12:4 "And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born”.
The main key here is the word, “tail”, and “of “, as in “of” heaven, and not in heaven, about the stars. stars here is symbolic of men who hold God's written word. stars do not necessary , or automatically means angels. in this verse it means men. those on earth that had heavenly information, or a message, that’s the symbolization used here of, heavenly stars. revelation chapter 12 correspond to the birth of Christ to a tee. Matthews chapter 2 tells how Herod the king tried to kill the baby the Christ. it say that the dragon drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and cast them to earth, this is not a persuasion to follow the dragon, but an attempt by the dragon, (king herod), to use someone to gain heavenly knowledge. it said that his tail “DREW” the THIRD part of the stars of heaven. drew here, means here, "to gather together". so who did king Herod drew, or gathered together? it's the stars or messengers that is (of heaven), that’s on earth, with the heavenly knowledge of where the babe is to be born at. (I'll show this by scripture). Herod the king called/drew, or gathered together unto him his aids, to find out about the new born King, that the wise men came to worship. he wanted to know where the child was born at, so that he may kill the babe, (he stood ready to kill/devour). as said, the word drew, past tense, mean to gather, draw together. king Herod inquired of the men of God, (Heavenly messengers, or Godly men), as to where the babe was born at. lets pick up the account, and see what the "THIRD PART" that he drew with his tail. Matt 2:4 "And when he had gathered all the chief priests,(1 part), and scribes, (2 part), of the people together, (there it is, of the people, not angels in heaven). he demanded of them where Christ should be born". these men was of God, who should know the things of God, and they did. scripture, Matt 2:5 "And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet, 6 And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel". here it is confirm that the babe came out of Judah. Now lets get the third part, the wise men. Matthews 2:7 “ Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, (3rd Part), enquired of them diligently what time the star appeared”. There is the third part, or the third of stares, the wise men. the scriptures said that the dragon, drew a third part, “of”, the stars, “of”, heaven. There you have it, a third part of the STARS. lets recap, Matthews 2:4, 1/3 the chief priests, 2/3 the scribes, and the 3/3 the wise men. (BINGO).

see how the wisdom of God work to bring out the correct information. only Lucifer fell, and this was not at chapter 12 here in Revelation. scripture, Isaiah 14:12 " How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! verse 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: verse 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. verse 15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit”. Not one holy angels in heaven fell, but Lucifer only, which was before, and in the garden to rebell by deception, (which God already knew).

“and the dragon stood before the woman ready to devoue”. Matthews 2:8 “ And he sent them to Bethlehem, and said, Go and search diligently for the young child; and when ye have found him, bring me word again, that I may come and worship him also”. The word devour here is to kill. scripture: Matt 2:16 "Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently inquired of the wise men". So we see the real dragon being represented/ or is symbolic in the person of king Herod. And the woman, symbolic of the church in the wilderness, (Judah). And the child born is the male child the Christ, the HEAD of the church, the chief cornerstone. the 3rd of stars was 1 the chief priest, 2 scribes, and 3 the wise men, the THREE PARTS.

So no holy angels fell from heaven, not here, in chapter 12. because the "stares", are men, and not angels. so you have the wrong fall.

the rebillion is on earth, for as said, Isaiah 14:12 "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!"Isaiah 14:13 "For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:"

see Davy, satan is the prince of the air, which is the FIRST HEAVEN, as in Isaiah 14:12. for if he was in heaven why as the next verse states, Isaiah 14:13 "For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven". see it now? he said I will asend into heave, see he was not in the heavens where God was, no, he was on earth.

Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Davy]

@Davy
ERROR, Revelation chapter 12 is revealed in Matthew chapter 2. the BIRTH of Christ.

Symbolic Meaning to understand chapter 12
Woman = represent a Church, (the remnant of the Nation, Israel, the church in the wilderness)
Dragon = behind, or in a person, be it representative of a political, or religious power. (Satan is always in the background)
Red in this chapter = blood
Stars = messenger, (human, or angelic)
Sun = the Righteousness of God, (which source is in the Gospel of Christ)
Moon = the Righteousness of God, (which source is in the Mosaic Law)

Not so.

The symbolic 'woman' in Rev.12:1 represents God's Israel, even back to the start of the Seed of the Woman in Genesis. In Genesis 37 the sun and moon were used as symbols in Joseph's dream about his mother and father. The symbol of 11 stars Joseph also dreamed about represented his 11 brethren, Joseph representing the 12 star.

The "dragon" title is another title for Satan himself we are told in the Rev.12:9 and Rev.20:2 scripture.

The first 5 verses of Rev.12 cover the time period back when Satan first rebelled in coveting God's throne, and drawing a third of the angels into rebellion with him. It then covers the time when he waited to devour the Seed of the Woman, starting with Abel. Then it covers the future time when Christ will reign over all nations with a rod of iron at His return.

The Rev.12:6 verse covers the first half of Daniel's symbolic "one week" of Dan.9:27.

The Rev.12:7-17 verses are still future, and are about the coming event of Satan with his angels being cast out of the heavenly dimension down to earth among us, de facto in person. And when that happens he goes after the woman who then represents Christ's faithful Church who keep His commandments and have the Testimony of Jesus Christ.

The only association of Matthew 2 with this is about Christ's birth in relation to the Seed of the Woman per Genesis 3 per the first five verses of Rev.12.

 

[101G]

The symbolic 'woman' in Rev.12:1 represents God's Israel, even back to the start of the Seed of the Woman in Genesis.

first ERROR of the Day, the seed, and not seeds repersent CHRIST.

In Genesis 37 the sun and moon were used as symbols in Joseph's dream about his mother and father. The symbol of 11 stars Joseph also dreamed about represented his 11 brethren, Joseph representing the 12 star.

Second ERROR of the DAY, the sun in chapter 12 of revelation is the Sun of righteousness, (the Christ), who will heal all nations. (see Malachi 4:2). and the moon at the woman, (the wildreness church), feet, is the Mosaic Law, (see Psalms 119:105). and the 12 stars on here head are the 12 messengers/apostles who are the Foundation, which is laid/Chosen by the chief or head cornerstone JESUS Christ. the HEAD of the Church is JESUS the Christ.

The "dragon" title is another title for Satan himself we are told in the Rev.12:9 and Rev.20:2 scripture.

your third ERROR of the Day, the GREAT, notice that term GREAT, RED Dragon, is symbolic of king Herod, who in the secular world he was called “the great”, for his reconstruction efforts. remember this is symbolic. the devil who is a spirit get others to do his dirty work, he just work behind the scenes. red here is symbolic for blood, for this king had much blood on his hands. supporting scriptures, Matt 2:16 "Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently enquired of the wise men”. he also had the blood of John the baptist on his hands. The ten horns is the power of the Roman Empire, which he, (king Herod), ruled by, (the romans). king Herod authority was supported by that power, the Roman Empire. so clearly he is a bloody, (red), dragon. as said, keep one hand on chapter 12 of revelation, and the other on Matthews chapter 2. this vision John sees is the birth of the Christ, the start of the Church, that the Lord Jesus christ is building.

The first 5 verses of Rev.12 cover the time period back when Satan first rebelled in coveting God's throne, and drawing a third of the angels into rebellion with him. It then covers the time when he waited to devour the Seed of the Woman, starting with Abel. Then it covers the future time when Christ will reign over all nations with a rod of iron at His return.

your fourth ERROR of the Day, see post #133 on the tail, and the 3rd that was symbolic.

The Rev.12:6 verse covers the first half of Daniel's symbolic "one week" of Dan.9:27.

ypur fifth ERROR of the day,
Revelation 12:6 "And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days”.
The term “fled” gives us the understanding about the the church in the wilderness, or the protestant movement, that brok away. It’s the Greek term, G5343 φεύγω pheugo (fev'-ğō) v. 1. to run away. 2. (by implication) to shun. 3. (by analogy) to vanish.
{literally or figuratively}
[apparently a primary verb]
KJV: escape, flee (away)

The KJV can translate the word as “escape”. so the question, “escape from what?” answer, the things of the world that can entrap a christian. and for some even in leadership, as here in 2 Peter. scripture, 2 Peter 2:20 "For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. Verse 21 "For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them”.

The Rev.12:7-17 verses are still future, and are about the coming event of Satan with his angels being cast out of the heavenly dimension down to earth among us, de facto in person. And when that happens he goes after the woman who then represents Christ's faithful Church who keep His commandments and have the Testimony of Jesus Christ.

your sixth ERROR of the Day.
these are those what had escape the cares of this world. Yet HAD NO ROOTS, as the sower parable express, the weeds choked them out. And this is the reason why the church fled/escape into the wilderness. So what do the wilderness means? Wilderness simply means “isolation”, which result in “separation”. 1 Corinthians 10:21 "Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils”. and 2 Corinthians 6:14 "Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? Verse 15 "And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? Verse 16 "And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Verse 17 "Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, verse 18 "And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty”.

“they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days”. They here are the two witness, but after John’s death, it is the Lord Jesus who is the God of his sheep, meaning the GOOD SHEPHERD, (see John 10:1-18. he feeds his church). and this feeding is done by the Spiritual Gifts poured out beginning at Pentecost.

God has had, and will have a church in the worst of times in this world, (even where Satan seat is at, see rev 2:13). as he reserved a number in Elijah's time, and fed his people in time of drought, likewise he did in the times of the anti-christian apostasy, who bowed not the knee to idolatry, and today he dose the same. this woman, the remnant, and her case, are the same with the 144,000 sealed ones in Rev 7:1, (the first fruit), whom God distinguished, hid, and preserved for the wilderness is a place of safety, solitude. that they, (the two witness), should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. This is the length of the ministry of the two witness, forty two months, or 1260 days. John the Baptist, and the Lord Jesus

“that they should feed her”. meaning the two witness. and what they fed here is the Word of God which was lacking in their time of witness. supportive scripture, Amos 8:11 "Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD". and the Lord Jesus is that BREAD, and that WATER.

Revelation 12:7 "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels”.
Not in the third heaven, the habitation of God, or the seat of the angels and glorified saints, there is no discord and contentions there, nothing but peace, love, and joy. but in the church, and outside, below, which contain some militant, and has in it as it were a company of two armies, the Good the bad, and the ugly on the sidelines. heaven here is on the earth, where the sky/heaven is that which was the heaven of Satan, the god of this world, or the prince of the “AIR”. and this war refers not to the dispute between Michael the archangel and the devil about the body of Moses, no, but with principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world. the name "Michael" is symbolically here for the Lord Jesus, for the Name Michael means "LIKE GOD". and this "WAR" is spiritual. Ephesians 6:10 "Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. Verse 11 "Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. Verse 12 "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Verse 13 "Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Verse 14 "Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; verse 15 "And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; verse 16 "Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. Verse 17 "And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: verse 18 "Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints”.

now read Post #133, as to the 3rd that was drawn by the dragon (king Herod).... to find out where the child was at in order to kill him. BINGO

Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Davy]

first ERROR of the Day, the seed, and not seeds repersent CHRIST.

You're just making stuff up, because I said the 'SEED of the Woman', not seeds. This is the seed I was referring to... which is about the lineage of Eve that would bear Jesus Christ...

Gen 3:15
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
KJV

That goes with Christ's lineage outlined in Luke 3 back to the man Adam, which I'd be surprised if you ever read it.

So actually, the ERROR is yours, showing your lack of understanding in God's Word!

Second ERROR of the DAY, the sun in chapter 12 of revelation is the Sun of righteousness, (the Christ), who will heal all nations. (see Malachi 4:2). and the moon at the woman, (the wildreness church), feet, is the Mosaic Law, (see Psalms 119:105). and the 12 stars on here head are the 12 messengers/apostles who are the Foundation, which is laid/Chosen by the chief or head cornerstone JESUS Christ. the HEAD of the Church is JESUS the Christ.

Another gross ERROR on you part showing your LACK OF BIBLICAL UNDERSTANDING!

Those symbols at the start of Revelation 12:1 come from Joseph's dream of Genesis 37... which is where those symbols were first given about Israel...

Gen 37:5-10
5 And Joseph dreamed a dream, and he told it his brethren: and they hated him yet the more.
6 And he said unto them, Hear, I pray you, this dream which I have dreamed:
7 For, behold, we were binding sheaves in the field, and, lo, my sheaf arose, and also stood upright; and, behold, your sheaves stood round about, and made obeisance to my sheaf.
8 And his brethren said to him, Shalt thou indeed reign over us? or shalt thou indeed have dominion over us? And they hated him yet the more for his dreams, and for his words.
9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.
10 And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, "What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?"
KJV

Sun = Joseph's father Jacob
Moon = Joseph's mother
eleven stars = Joseph's 11 brothers from their father Jacob

Understanding in God's Word is so... simple when you allow His Word to interpret Itself!

Your avatar is worthy of what you're doing here, as a SPY. Your words show it too, but doesn't fool me.

 

[101G]

You're just making stuff up, because I said the 'SEED of the Woman', not seeds. This is the seed I was referring to... which is about the lineage of Eve that would bear Jesus Christ...

maybe you forgot what you said in post #134. listen to what you said,

The symbolic 'woman' in Rev.12:1 represents God's Israel, even back to the start of the Seed of the Woman in Genesis.

well the seed of the woman cannot be Israel. Israel is not one SEED, but many. but christ is. and what is christ? Spiritual, it by "FAITH. so this genealogy through count for nothing in salvation, because we know him n o long according to the flesh. supportive scripture, 2 Corinthians 5:16 "Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more."

so all this Israel stuff is that "made up?"... (smile), scripture, John 6:63 "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."

there is no LIFE in my flesh, your flesh, or Israel flesh, scripture, 1 Timothy 1:4 "Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do."

Titus 3:9 "But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain."

see Davy, the flesh ..... nothing, Romans 8:5 "For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit."Romans 8:6 "For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace."Romans 8:7 "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be."

Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Davy]

maybe you forgot what you said in post #134. listen to what you said,

well the seed of the woman cannot be Israel. Israel is not one SEED, but many. but christ is. and what is christ? Spiritual, it by "FAITH. so this genealogy through count for nothing in salvation, because we know him n o long according to the flesh. supportive scripture, 2 Corinthians 5:16 "Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more."

You're funny!

Since when does the word 'seed' apply just to one person? and the phrase 'seed of the woman', which I pointed to the family of which Christ would be born through, which is DOCUMENTED in Luke 3?

You would try to go against Christ's blood lineage from Mary written in Luke 3? No true Christian would ever think of doing that!

The Seed of the Woman = Israel, which is the Seed which Christ was born through, specifically of the tribe of Judah! Communists hate that idea, Christians do not because they know per God's written Word it is true.

 

[101G]

Since when does the word 'seed' apply just to one person?

well read it, Galatians 3:16 "Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ."

Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Davy]

well read it, Galatians 3:16 "Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ."

Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

You are not understanding the Galatians 3:16 verse. By pointing specifically to Abraham's seed, it means the family that Jesus Christ would be born through, and that was through Isaac.

Rom 9:7
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
KJV

From Eve to Abraham, to Isaac, to Jacob, to Judah, then the Luke 3 list after Judah, to Jesus through Mary. THAT... is what the 'seed of the Woman' means, and the "woman" of Rev.12.

 

[101G]

You are not understanding the Galatians 3:16 verse. By pointing specifically to Abraham's seed, it means the family that Jesus Christ would be born through, and that was through Isaac.

Rom 9:7
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
KJV

From Eve to Abraham, to Isaac, to Jacob, to Judah, then the Luke 3 list after Judah, to Jesus through Mary. THAT... is what the 'seed of the Woman' means, and the "woman" of Rev.12.

Sorry the SEED is of Faith. when you quoted Romeans get both verses ... ok, Romans 9:7 "Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called."Romans 9:8 "That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." YIKES!... you should read that again.


now lets get these by FAITH IN THE PROMISE "SEED",
lets go up to verse #6, listen, Galatians 3:6 "Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness."Galatians 3:7 "Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham."Galatians 3:8 "And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed."Galatians 3:9 "So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham."

BINGO, "that God would justify the heathen through faith". case closed.


Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Davy]

Sorry the SEED is of Faith. when you quoted Romeans get both verses ... ok, Romans 9:7 "Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called."Romans 9:8 "That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." YIKES!... you should read that again.

You can't even understand the lineage of the children of Israel and Christ Jesus from Abraham! Amazing! Your lack of Biblical understanding is like a 1st grader.