OSAS anyone? Opinions on Once Saved Always Saved

[Behold]

If a person believes they can lose their salvation, then this simply means they believe that they have more power to lose it, then God has to keep it.
This is a root of pride, and the deception of Self Righteousness.

See, God, started your salvation in you, and He said, in Philippians 1:6....that He Himself will be "faithful" to complete it.
Jesus said that He, and not you, but He, is the "author and FINISHER of your Faith".

So, there you have God saying He will FAITHFULLY complete your salvation, and Jesus said He will finish your faith.

The Legalist, feels and believes that they have more power than God or Christ, who are "One", and so, this pride exists within them which leads them to dispute, openly, in public, God and Christ = who said they will take care of your Salvation and your Faith, and not you.
You are to take care of your Discipleship.
Thats your part.

You are to have FAITH that God will do what He said, and Christ will do what He said, regarding your Salvation and your Faith.
If you dont, then you are deceived.
All Legalists are deceived.

 

[amadeus]

When you speak of Jesus being tempted, 'pierasmos', are you thinking of this as that He experienced the same sort of inner tug towards sin which we experience?

Or do you mean in the sense of being confronted with some contrary circumstance to which He could respond the right way, or the wrong way?

I believe the second is the correct understanding of the word.

Much love!

Jesus was tempted as we according to Heb 4:15 but he still had the advantage over us. All of us did sin and all of us had formed bad habits, which when followed would lead us to sin again. Also within Jesus was all of the Word of God. We can eat his flesh and drink his blood and have it all quickened to us according to need, but too many people eat and drink too little of His flesh and blood... as I see it.

We can come to place in reference to sin where he was as a man, but we have the obstacles of our bad habits and our own sinful histories, history which we have not forgotten. But... all that is needed to make it has been provided. The tools and power and help are available. The choice is, however, still ours to make!

 

[amadeus]

I think that ship sailed a long time ago. This is about the recovery.

Much love!

I disagree, but you must walk your own walk as I must walk mine. God will increase each of us as we persist and as the need arises.

 

[Behold]

I disagree, but you must walk your own walk as I must walk mine. God will increase each of us as we persist and as the need arises.

Its good to walk the walk.
Where this fails is when you have faith in that walk to keep yourself saved.
If this is your faith, then you are deceived, and have "fallen from Grace".

 

[amadeus]

He who believes in Me, though dying, shall live, and he who lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe?

We have Christ.

Much love!

We may indeed have more than others who have not met the Master have or have had, but what did Jesus say?

"Much is given... much is required"

"But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." Luke 12:48

God is no respecter of persons. This was true in the OT as it was in the written NT as it is true now for God never changes:

"These things also belong to the wise. It is not good to have respect of persons in judgment." Prov 24:23

"Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal? Ezek 18:25

"And they sent out unto him their disciples with the Herodians, saying, Master, we know that thou art true, and teachest the way of God in truth, neither carest thou for any man: for thou regardest not the person of men." Matt 22:16

"Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:" Acts 10:34

 

[marks]

We may indeed have more than others who have not met the Master have or have had, but what did Jesus say?

The servant does not remain, but the son remains forever. God makes a difference.

You must be born again.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Jesus is most certainly the answer, but it comes again, does it not, to what He really meant when he said "believe". It is God's meaning that matters. Do we fully understand what He means? We do live by faith rather than by knowledge, do we not? And faith...?

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Heb 11:1

When I say, by faith and NOT by sight, I'm saying, by reliance on Jesus Christ, and not by how my life looks to me. If sin sends us back to death, well, who does not sin?

But we are reconciled. Only partly reconciled? Or completely?

Much love!

 

[amadeus]

Its good to walk the walk.
Where this fails is when you have faith in that walk to keep yourself saved.
If this is your faith, then you are deceived, and have "fallen from Grace".

Neither I nor any man can save himself or keep himself saved.

"And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved?
And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible." Mark 10:26-27

And who is in us and if we have power from whence does it come?

"To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:" Col 1:27

"But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you:..." Acts 1:8

The power is, or should be in us, the power of God that is, and for this reason the Apostle Paul admonishes us:

"Quench not the Spirit" I Thess 5:19

 

[amadeus]

The servant does not remain, but the son remains forever. God makes a difference.

You must be born again.

Much love!

Do you not believe that being born again takes us back to where Adam and Eve were before they disobeyed?

"Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God." Luke 3:38

 

[amadeus]

When I say, by faith and NOT by sight, I'm saying, by reliance on Jesus Christ, and not by how my life looks to me. If sin sends us back to death, well, who does not sin?

But we are reconciled. Only partly reconciled? Or completely?

Much love!

I've watched people argue this point and I have argued it myself. I believe that the Truth is Jesus because that is what is written. How well do we know Him? You are insisting on a conclusion. I could also insist on a conclusion, but God is right even if both you and I are wrong in our conclusions. Why draw conclusions? Remember what faith is? It is not knowledge!

 

[marks]

Do you not believe that being born again takes us back to where Adam and Eve were before they disobeyed?

"Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God." Luke 3:38

No I don't.

I believe that in Christ we are united to God in a way that Adam was not.

Jesus' death and resurrection changed everything, and as we share in His death and resurrection we have what Adam did not, new life in Christ, not created by God, but born of God, from His seed, flesh of His flesh, bone of His bone.

In Adam we are a part of the original humanity. In Christ we are removed from the line of Adam, and now are in Christ. Adam was of the earth, earthy, Christ is the Lord of heaven.

Much love!

 

[Waiting on him]

@ilovejcsog
You bring up a good point about the circular reasoning aspect, about those who claim OSAS.
But, I believe that they broach the topic in order to desperately and insufficiently instill an assurance to those who confess Christ. But, the deficiency in their understanding is very clear, as we see the folly in their rationale - they profess assurance, as all Christians at any given moment do, but when one falls away, they claim that that person never had convicting faith. So then, how in the world is anyone to be assured that all these OSAS people aren't the ones who will eventually renounce their faith also? There's absolutely no proof either way, ...don't even try to tell me that it's in their works or fruits. For, none of them have even experienced half of the same testimony as of the fallen in Hebrews 6:4.
So again, their reasoning is circular - and thus, their comprehension and exegesis is deficient all around.

Hebrews 6:1-3 KJV
[1] Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, [2] Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. [3] And this will we do, if God permit.
Paul is saying imo they’ve yet to leave these Old Testament principles, this is a solid indication they have yet to truly believe.

 

[Waiting on him]

Here she comes putting her 2 cents in again...

The book of Jude breaks this down pretty good.
Jde 1:5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

Jde 1:11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.
Jde 1:12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;
Jde 1:13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

What do you make of these verses?

HUGS

Cat fight?

 

[amadeus]

No I don't.

I believe that in Christ we are united to God in a way that Adam was not.

Jesus' death and resurrection changed everything, and as we share in His death and resurrection we have what Adam did not, new life in Christ, not created by God, but born of God, from His seed, flesh of His flesh, bone of His bone.

In Adam we are a part of the original humanity. In Christ we are removed from the line of Adam, and now are in Christ. Adam was of the earth, earthy, Christ is the Lord of heaven.

Much love!

I know that you are not alone in such a belief. To me it effectively makes God out to be a respecter of persons. I do suggest that you re-read the verses I posted on this thread. Jesus was sent because men were dead and without Him was there was no Hope for the Life that was lost by Adam and Eve. Many people, believing people, have been indoctrinated to the point where they won't seriously consider anything that is not where they are or believe themselves to be. Going back to the lowest room on a daily basis is really a good idea and I did not propose it. Jesus did!

 

[DNB]

That's right. That's what makes making sure you're even really saved in the first place the important thing. What good is a theology about whether or not you can lose your salvation if you find out the hard way that you aren't really a true believer anyway to begin with? We need to know if our faith is genuine before we find out the hard way that it is not, and before it is too late to do something about it.


The Bible really does tell us that being like Christ in this life gives us assurance that we are saved and do not have to fear the coming judgement.

Yes, you're right FB. In other words, if one were to ask me whether or not I'm saved right now, I would say yes, but I will not, and cannot say, what the future holds for me. If I start becoming overly confident in my faith, even to the point of self-righteousness (one of the consequences of OSAS), there is no doubt that God can put me to the test to the point that I even deny the Faith that offers salvation.

I believe that this is the distinction, we can possibly know at any given moment who is saved, but we cannot know who will be actually accepted upon Christ's return.

 

[marks]

I've watched people argue this point and I have argued it myself. I believe that the Truth is Jesus because that is what is written. How well do we know Him? You are insisting on a conclusion. I could also insist on a conclusion, but God is right even if both you and I are wrong in our conclusions. Why draw conclusions? Remember what faith is? It is not knowledge!

What I'm saying is that I trust Him.

It may seem hubris to say that I know God, and in knowing Him, I have life, and having life in Him, I have life eternal. I realize that. I don't speak it as a boast, or as an opinion, or an observation, though each of these has their place. Let him who glories glory in the Lord.

But I speak it as a theological belief based specifically on the Words of Scripture. I read His Book, and I trust Him. And then when I do look at my life, at myself, I see the effects of His working in me, and around me.

You say, faith is not knowledge. I think faith is more sure than knowledge. Faith itself is the evidence of what we don't see. We walk by faith and not by sight because the truths we live by are not seen. Our faith can be misplaced, but I think God has made life simple. Trust Jesus for life. And all comes from that.

God says "that you may know you have eternal life", how do we go on from that to say we cannot know?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Going back to the lowest room on a daily basis is really a good idea and I did not propose it. Jesus did!

What does this mean to you?

Something more than not promoting yourself over others?

Much love!

 

[marks]

I know that you are not alone in such a belief. To me it effectively makes God out to be a respecter of persons. I do suggest that you re-read the verses I posted on this thread. Jesus was sent because men were dead and without Him was there was no Hope for the Life that was lost by Adam and Eve. Many people, believing people, have been indoctrinated to the point where they won't seriously consider anything that is not where they are or believe themselves to be. Going back to the lowest room on a daily basis is really a good idea and I did not propose it. Jesus did!

I'd like to take a rare moment to make a self-defense, which I genenally like to stay away from.

"Many people" weren't addressed this post, I was, and I'd like to reassure you that I am a serious and open minded student of the Word, and desire to know all truth and wisdom from the Scriptures. In fact, I'm trusting in Jesus that He is teaching me.

If you are of the mind that I'm ignoring some of the passages of Scripture, again, I'd like to reassure you that, well, what I think to be the primary reason for the difference in our views is that I can't ignore the Scriptures, and when I come to terms with what it says, this is what it says.

Best as I can understand it!

Respector of persons . . . yes, God is not a respector of persons, and all will be judged . . . and yet . . . not all will perish. Some will have life. And you either attribute that fact to what we do, or what He did, or some combination between those two choices.

I believe it's what Jesus did in entirety. I receive eternal life IN Him. Others believe that Jesus starts us out, but we complete the race, racing to eternal life, which we receive as the reward of our good behavior, kindly intents, pleasing attitude.

In all honesty I don't really know how to describe the means by which you believe you receive rebirth and eternal life.

Much love!

 

[justbyfaith]

John 5:24
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

This translation of John 5:24 is inaccurate. It puts the verse in contradiction to Romans 14:10-12, 2 Corinthians 5:10.

The more accurate translation is the kjv:

Jhn 5:24, Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

 

[Waiting on him]

Yes, you're right FB. In other words, if one were to ask me whether or not I'm saved right now, I would say yes, but I will not, and cannot say, what the future holds for me. If I start becoming overly confident in my faith, even to the point of self-righteousness (one of the consequences of OSAS), there is no doubt that God can put me to the test to the point that I even deny the Faith that offers salvation.

I believe that this is the distinction, we can possibly know at any given moment who is saved, but we cannot know who will be actually accepted upon Christ's return.

You imply an absence of Confidence in Christ.