OSAS anyone? Opinions on Once Saved Always Saved

[marks]

As I at least inferred on another post here, the very word "saved" when applied to oneself can be a very selfish usage.

Or it can merely be accurate. We should live in truth, and if the truth is that we have received God's reconciliation, and if the truth is that we have been restored to relationship with Him, and if the truth is that knowing Him brings us into life eternal, then we are simply discussing what God has done.

Being "saved", to me, means that God has rescued me back to Himself out of the ruination of sin. This isn't some "badge of pride", rather, my celebration of my relationship with my Creator that was given to me, though I didn't deserve it.

Much love!

 

[amadeus]

I disagree.
Gods ultimate pleasure is for a man to become Converted.

Once a man IS Converted....
Nothing can Change that.

Thereafter...yes After Conversion...
Everything a man does is All about...
Receiving: Rewards, Treasures, Gifts, Status.

• There Are Rewards for publically Exalting God...
• The ARE Treasures hid in Heaven for Exalting God privately, secretly.
• There Are Gifts unexpected for ones unexpected Giving.
• There Are Status' in Heaven from Great to Least.

No man MUST DO any of those Things, to "KEEP" his Salvation and Quickening.

Those things are Offerings, a man CAN DO and plainly Foretold what he will receive for his above and Beyond Efforts.

And on the Flip side...Choose to NOT DO those Things...eh, too bad, you lose out receiving What you "could have Had."

Inanutshell- (laymans terms) you don't flunk out because you didn't go for the extra credit...and you don't get the prize for the extra credit if you do nothing extra above and beyond, to earn the extra credit.

From your posts, you reveal yourself pleased to go for the extra above and beyond, and you will reap the rewards for your efforts.

Glory to God,
Taken

In much we do most certainly agree from some that I have read in your posts. I admittedly have not read many of them all because your average posts are usually too long for my limited powers of patience and concentration. [For me that came with physical age.]

If when a person says that he is saved, he simply means that he has met the Master and is now striving to please the one that he loves that is OK. A lot of people use that word 'saved' too lightly, I believe, meaning that they know they are never going to die. They may well believe it, but I do not believe that most of them [if any of them] know it.

There really is a dividing line between those who really love God and those who are insisting on their saved position so as to claim without a doubt the rewards of God. God, of course, is able to see the line and knows who is one side or the other. Can men see the line clearly before they have finished their course here? I believe that sometimes some can... but I do not know. God, as I see it, knows. Has He shared His knowledge with any man? Well He shared with King Hezekiah that 15 years had been added. But... for the most part we don't know how much times remains to us, do we? Salvation is different?

I believe that I have been saved, I am being saved and also that if I continue with Him that I shall be saved. My basic definition of salvation perhaps is different than yours?

 

[marks]

I have avoided some of these OSAS threads because people often hold a selfish attitude making their personal "salvation" as more important to them than real Love.

All this endless talk about whether we are saved forever or maybe saved we don't know or whatever, all this endless talk about do we still sin are we sinless do sins kill your new spirit, going round and round and round,

Yes, I think some may be losing sight of what's really going on here.

Yes, I agree with you about focusing on the result of "salvation", eyes on ourselves, it's all backwards.

I agree, and feel it cannot be overstressed ~ A love relationship with our Creator. This is the heart of the matter. Do you know your Maker? Have you discovered His love for you? And have you been reborn a new creature who loves Him?

Because no matter what we all have to say about our theology or our imperfect understandings, to me, the real issue is this.

Am I enjoying a true fellowship with my Creator? And How can I know whether it is real, or whether I am deceived?

Does anyone who is in a true love relationship with our Creator turn away from Him? How could that be?

Much love!

 

[marks]

My basic definition of salvation perhaps is different than yours?

To me what this comes down to is a new creation, rebirth. That we either have been reborn or we have not been reborn. Being reborn is being born from God, so that now we are God's child, and not Adam's child.

We are reborn through the justification of joining Jesus Christ in His death and resurrection, so we are separated by death from our sin and the flesh and the law, and are raised into a new and righteous and holy life sharing in God's nature.

Much love!

 

[amadeus]

Who exactly is it who wants to sin? You? Me? @Nancy ? I don't, myself. Do you?

Much love!

Are any of us still tempted or are all of the temptations completely gone in any one of us? I do believe that some have overcome the world of temptation by the power in them, the power of God in them.

Jesus never sinned, but he was tempted. When he said that he was no longer "in" the world [John 17:11] I believe he meant that he had completely overcome temptation. He was no long in the world of temptation even though his physical body was still located on planet Earth. Jesus overcame that world of temptation as per his own words:

"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." John 16:33

Jesus overcame the world of temptation and was no longer in it. He was no longer tempted even though he still had a bit of work to do. He had to lay down his own life. But when he did that he was no longer tempted to bypass that sacrifice. I believe actually overcame for the last time after the third prayer here:

"And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt." Matt 26:39

 

[marks]

My friend, the devils believe! Jesus is certainly speaking of something more than believing that he exists!

The one believing into me, even dying, shall live. And the one who lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe?

Master! If you had been here, my brother wouldn't have died! But I know God will give You what You ask!

I AM the resurrection and the life!

~
They were thinking of their earthy lives, and Jesus pointed them to life in Himself. He asked them, Do you believe you have life in Me? I believe the reason Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead was to give evidence that He has life in Himself, and gives life to whom He wills.

That all who believe in Him to receive this life will receive it, because that is His desire.

Reliance on Jesus for life, this to me is the faith that saves. And IF I'm relying on Jesus for life, then how would I be looking towards my works to bring me home?

Much love!

 

[Nancy]

Who exactly is it who wants to sin? You? Me? @Nancy ? I don't, myself. Do you?

Much love!

I know I sure don't! I constantly ask to hate sin as He does. And, I know that @amadeus also hates sin. God's shows us more and more of ourselves if we are open to hearing Him...His light shines and exposes our sin...and we can close our own eyes to it or accept it for what it is and banish it from our lives through His Spirit's awesome power, Amen! "His grace is sufficient" And, that is such wonderful thing to realize and exercise every day...pray and watch Him work!

Nancy, almost everyone wants to live forever, it would seem, but most [all] of them also want to flirt with and even partake of sin, do they not? People wants the blessings God offers, but how many are willing to do all that He may require of them?

"The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions." Matt 19:20-22

For that young man and many others, then and now, their love for material riches was/is the stumbling block.

As I at least inferred on another post here, the very word "saved" when applied to oneself can be a very selfish usage. Would we or could we or do we love God without His promise to reward us with unending Life? Why do parents love their natural children? Don't they love them before a child can respond with a smile or a hug or the expression in words, 'I love you too!'?

Well John,
I for one do NOT want to live forever...on this earth. I groan just as the creation does for the New Heavens and the New Earth.

"Nancy, almost everyone wants to live forever, it would seem, but most [all] of them also want to flirt with and even partake of sin, do they not? People wants the blessings God offers, but how many are willing to do all that He may require of them?"

Isn't it a sad thing for one to have one foot in the world and one foot in heaven...NOT that that is even possible and they are only fooling their selves. There needs to be more mentoring within the Church, I think. God fearing folks taking the chicks under their wings. Teaching them how to study the bible and "Rightly divide the scriptures"

"For that young man and many others, then and now, their love for material riches was/is the stumbling block."

The funny thing is that, when God took the "love of money" from me...I have been exceedingly blessed with it! A long time prayer of mine was and still is to be a very good steward of my money. Most of my life I was not but...now I am and the credit score is as about as high as it can be! And let me tell you me bro, it was NOT my doing but His! Funny how when we let go and truly trust Him, without seeing a way, is when He comes through in spades.

"Would we or could we or do we love God without His promise to reward us with unending Life? Why do parents love their natural children? Don't they love them before a child can respond with a smile or a hug or the expression in words, 'I love you too!'?"

Knowing that He blesses me whether or not I am "saved" (I'd say, more like "being saved"?) Is enough for me even if for a time. It really is an ongoing battle/race thing. Gratitude is HUGE! It is what God want's from us as He is so very good.
In Him always brother!

 

[marks]

Jesus never sinned, but he was tempted. When he said that he was no longer "in" the world [John 17:11] I believe he meant that he had completely overcome temptation. He was no long in the world of temptation even though his physical body was still located on planet Earth. Jesus overcame that world of temptation as per his own words:

When you speak of Jesus being tempted, 'pierasmos', are you thinking of this as that He experienced the same sort of inner tug towards sin which we experience?

Or do you mean in the sense of being confronted with some contrary circumstance to which He could respond the right way, or the wrong way?

I believe the second is the correct understanding of the word.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I know I sure don't! I constantly ask to hate sin as He does. And, I know that @amadeus also hates sin. God's shows us more and more of ourselves if we are open to hearing Him...His light shines and exposes our sin...and we can close our own eyes to it or accept it for what it is and banish it from our lives through His Spirit's awesome power, Amen! "His grace is sufficient" And, that is such wonderful thing to realize and exercise every day...pray and watch Him work!

That's just it. I hear this argument promoted, but I fail to find it in reality. Those who are in Christ will even destroy their own faith over their hatred of their sin, though that in ignorance.

BTW . . . I've been listening the Andrew Farley . . . many many thanks for mentioning him!

Much love!

 

[Nancy]

That's just it. I hear this argument promoted, but I fail to find it in reality. Those who are in Christ will even destroy their own faith over their hatred of their sin, though that in ignorance.

BTW . . . I've been listening the Andrew Farley . . . many many thanks for mentioning him!

Much love!

Yes, Andrew is such a Christians Christian Freeing, his teaching is. His books are awesome as well. I bought The Naked Gospel for a friend/co worker/Christian one time. I had asked after awhile how she liked it and, she said, I read the beginning and that was enough. People don't give him a chance. I don't know if you read that one but, in the beginning there are q and a's...that is where she stopped! Anyhow, he was most definitely the conduit for my finally "seeing"!!! Amen.

"That's just it. I hear this argument promoted, but I fail to find it in reality. Those who are in Christ will even destroy their own faith over their hatred of their sin, though that in ignorance."

Yes, but..."There is now no condemnation to those..." I find hatred of my sin to be a healthy thing as, it shows that His Spirit is in me, shining on all things in my heart and, showing me things I had not even thought of as sin. It becomes easier for me when I let go of it all and let Him work in me with the power of His grace. It's a process and a growth thing I'd say.

 

[Taken]

...your average posts are usually too long for my limited powers of patience...

For me, it has been a developed habit, working for years with deaf people, to be as precise as possible.

I believe that I have been saved, I am being saved and also that if I continue with Him that I shall be saved. My basic definition of salvation perhaps is different than yours?

Yes. Different.

HAVE been saved, (believe)
ARE being saved, (while continuing)
SHALL BE saved. (If)

Sounds like an uncertainty, that His Gift is dependent upon you to Keep it.

I rather believe I have God my word to God for His Power to Ensure I Keep His Gifts.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[amadeus]

Or it can merely be accurate. We should live in truth, and if the truth is that we have received God's reconciliation, and if the truth is that we have been restored to relationship with Him, and if the truth is that knowing Him brings us into life eternal, then we are simply discussing what God has done.

Being "saved", to me, means that God has rescued me back to Himself out of the ruination of sin. This isn't some "badge of pride", rather, my celebration of my relationship with my Creator that was given to me, though I didn't deserve it.

Much love!

Yes, we can say that God rescued us. He gave us the opportunity to choose rightly for ourselves or not. We now can make the same choice that Adam and Eve already made for us. They chose wrong and died... and all of their offspring were in the eyes of God dead... until and if they chose Jesus. However, Jesus allowed us to still to choose God or mammon as did Adam and Eve. We never had our will removed from us. We still, even after having received the gift of the Holy Ghost, have the choice before us: God or mammon.

 

[amadeus]

To me what this comes down to is a new creation, rebirth. That we either have been reborn or we have not been reborn. Being reborn is being born from God, so that now we are God's child, and not Adam's child.

We are reborn through the justification of joining Jesus Christ in His death and resurrection, so we are separated by death from our sin and the flesh and the law, and are raised into a new and righteous and holy life sharing in God's nature.

Much love!

Yes, when a person is truly born again or born from above, he is God's child as Adam was God's child. Adam disinherited himself by his disobedience because the dead cannot inherit. We can do the same thing Adam did, or we can do it better than he did. The choice is ours as it was his! Remember that God is not respecter of persons. Therefore He has not given any fallible person more of a guarantee than He gave Adam! What do we have more than what Adam had before he disobeyed God?

 

[marks]

We now can make the same choice that Adam and Eve already made for us.

I think that ship sailed a long time ago. This is about the recovery.

Much love!

 

[marks]

What do we have more than what Adam had before he disobeyed God?

He who believes in Me, though dying, shall live, and he who lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe?

We have Christ.

Much love!

 

[amadeus]

The one believing into me, even dying, shall live. And the one who lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe?

Master! If you had been here, my brother wouldn't have died! But I know God will give You what You ask!

I AM the resurrection and the life!

~
They were thinking of their earthy lives, and Jesus pointed them to life in Himself. He asked them, Do you believe you have life in Me? I believe the reason Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead was to give evidence that He has life in Himself, and gives life to whom He wills.

That all who believe in Him to receive this life will receive it, because that is His desire.

Reliance on Jesus for life, this to me is the faith that saves. And IF I'm relying on Jesus for life, then how would I be looking towards my works to bring me home?

Much love!

Jesus is most certainly the answer, but it comes again, does it not, to what He really meant when he said "believe". It is God's meaning that matters. Do we fully understand what He means? We do live by faith rather than by knowledge, do we not? And faith...?

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Heb 11:1

 

[marks]

Jesus is most certainly the answer, but it comes again, does it not, to what He really meant when he said "believe". It is God's meaning that matters. Do we fully understand what He means? We do live by faith rather than by knowledge, do we not? And faith...?

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Heb 11:1

Yes, by faith, and NOT by sight.

Much love!

 

[amadeus]

For me, it has been a developed habit, working for years with deaf people, to be as precise as possible.

My mind is pretty good for an old person, but I know very well that it falls far short of what it once was. I may not have worn out as many parts as badly as others, but they are wearing thin. If my 95 year old pastor who has known the scriptures all of his life were to read even one of my simple posts he would be completely lost. With one of yours he would not have a clue. But... fortunately God is looking at the hearts rather than the mind. I guess there really is a difference.

Yes. Different.

HAVE been saved, (believe)
ARE being saved, (while continuing)
SHALL BE saved. (If)

Sounds like an uncertainty, that His Gift is dependent upon you to Keep it.

I rather believe I have God my word to God for His Power to Ensure I Keep His Gifts.

God Bless,
Taken

So we are different places on this. That is OK. God gives any increase needed to anyone who really is hungry and thirsty after His righteousness. [This could be you or it could be me.] Give God the glory and bless you my brother!

 

[marks]

Jesus is most certainly the answer, but it comes again, does it not, to what He really meant when he said "believe". It is God's meaning that matters. Do we fully understand what He means?

That's why I point to the passage in John.

This is where Jesus centers His words about believing and about life. He is the resurrection and the life, and the one who believe 'into' Him will live. So I rely on Him for life. For physical life as long as He gives it, and for spiritual life as long as He gives it. The physical life is promised to end. The spiritual life is promised to not. And I believe Him.

Much love!

 

[amadeus]

I know I sure don't! I constantly ask to hate sin as He does. And, I know that @amadeus also hates sin. God's shows us more and more of ourselves if we are open to hearing Him...His light shines and exposes our sin...and we can close our own eyes to it or accept it for what it is and banish it from our lives through His Spirit's awesome power, Amen! "His grace is sufficient" And, that is such wonderful thing to realize and exercise every day...pray and watch Him work!

Well John,
I for one do NOT want to live forever...on this earth. I groan just as the creation does for the New Heavens and the New Earth.

"Nancy, almost everyone wants to live forever, it would seem, but most [all] of them also want to flirt with and even partake of sin, do they not? People wants the blessings God offers, but how many are willing to do all that He may require of them?"

Isn't it a sad thing for one to have one foot in the world and one foot in heaven...NOT that that is even possible and they are only fooling their selves. There needs to be more mentoring within the Church, I think. God fearing folks taking the chicks under their wings. Teaching them how to study the bible and "Rightly divide the scriptures"

"For that young man and many others, then and now, their love for material riches was/is the stumbling block."

The funny thing is that, when God took the "love of money" from me...I have been exceedingly blessed with it! A long time prayer of mine was and still is to be a very good steward of my money. Most of my life I was not but...now I am and the credit score is as about as high as it can be! And let me tell you me bro, it was NOT my doing but His! Funny how when we let go and truly trust Him, without seeing a way, is when He comes through in spades.

"Would we or could we or do we love God without His promise to reward us with unending Life? Why do parents love their natural children? Don't they love them before a child can respond with a smile or a hug or the expression in words, 'I love you too!'?"

Knowing that He blesses me whether or not I am "saved" (I'd say, more like "being saved"?) Is enough for me even if for a time. It really is an ongoing battle/race thing. Gratitude is HUGE! It is what God want's from us as He is so very good.
In Him always brother!

Give God the glory! He always knows just exactly what He is doing. Sometimes He shares part of what He is doing with us... but in this flesh we may not be able to count on receiving that kind of a revelation...