OSAS anyone? Opinions on Once Saved Always Saved

[ilovejcsog]

Here she comes putting her 2 cents in again...?

The book of Jude breaks this down pretty good.
Jde 1:5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

Jde 1:11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.
Jde 1:12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;
Jde 1:13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

What do you make of these verses?

HUGS

But that was the old testament. Not salvation from the cross?

 

[farouk]

But that was the old testament. Not salvation from the cross?

Romans 8.38-39 seems strongly to teach eternal security. (Those who profess but live and die in unbelief were Biblically not true believers in the first place...)

 

[ilovejcsog]

Welcome to the forum.

Glory to God,
Taken

Thank you for the warm welcome!
Is your avatar the most current picture of you?

 

[ilovejcsog]

Romans 8.38-39 seems strongly to teach eternal security. (Those who profess but live and die in unbelief were Biblically not true believers in the first place...)

AGREE
If they were believers it would not enter their mind to go about sinning and living a life out side of God. That's what surprises me that they would say that we want freedom to sin and still keep salvation. As if that would even be a part of their being as a believer.

 

[farouk]

AGREE
If they were believers it would not enter their mind to go about sinning and living a life out side of God. That's what surprises me that they would say that we want freedom to sin and still keep salvation. As if that would even be a part of their being as a believer.

@ilovejcsog Paul indeed speaks in Romans of 'the obedience of faith' and 'obedience to the faith'.

 

[ilovejcsog]

@ilovejcsog Paul indeed speaks in Romans of 'the obedience of faith' and 'obedience to the faith'.

You are asking me my favorite Scripture?
1John 4:4

 

[farouk]

You are asking me my favorite Scripture?
1John 4:4

 

[ilovejcsog]

OOP's sorry, in my mind I was thinking scripture when I read your request.

 

[farouk]

As regards the 'once saved...' aspect, first of all one needs to get away from a shallow understanding of what it is; it's not simply signing a "decision" card, or walking out to the front at a meeting, etc. There needs to be a work of God in the heart in the first place (John 3; Ephesians 2).

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Anyone care to give their opinion of osas?

My opinion is it's a horrible distraction and waste of time to discuss it. You have to be believing in Christ when he returns to be saved, so what does it matter if you fall away because you were never really saved to begin with or because you lost your faith? You're still damned either way. So it's not an important topic to talk about. What's important is that you believe now and believe all the way to the end of your life.

 

[ilovejcsog]

Many struggle with whether they are saved or not. It is just one more assurance to those that doubt. Doubt in your salvation can be crippling.

 

[DNB]

My opinion is it's a horrible distraction and waste of time to discuss it. You have to be believing in Christ when he returns to be saved, so what does it matter if you fall away because you were never really saved to begin with or because you lost your faith? You're still damned either way. So it's not an important topic to talk about. What's important is that you believe now and believe all the way to the end of your life.

@ilovejcsog
You bring up a good point about the circular reasoning aspect, about those who claim OSAS.
But, I believe that they broach the topic in order to desperately and insufficiently instill an assurance to those who confess Christ. But, the deficiency in their understanding is very clear, as we see the folly in their rationale - they profess assurance, as all Christians at any given moment do, but when one falls away, they claim that that person never had convicting faith. So then, how in the world is anyone to be assured that all these OSAS people aren't the ones who will eventually renounce their faith also? There's absolutely no proof either way, ...don't even try to tell me that it's in their works or fruits. For, none of them have even experienced half of the same testimony as of the fallen in Hebrews 6:4.
So again, their reasoning is circular - and thus, their comprehension and exegesis is deficient all around.

 

[Enoch111]

Anyone care to give their opinion of osas?

Bible truth is not dependent on the opinion of men. It is a proclamation of God's truth. So what you refer to as OSAS is actually the eternal security of the believer. That is totally dependent upon God and the finished work of Christ. Those who are "in Christ" are eternally secure in Him.

 

[kcnalp]

OSAS is not Scriptural.

Matthew 24:13 (NKJV)
13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved.

 

[Cristo Rei]

OSAS is not Scriptural.

Matthew 24:13 (NKJV)
13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved.

I tend to agree... They will pull out some verse from the bible that might be telling us that we're already saved before we die...
"And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified"... Romans 8:30

But they have to ignore passages such as the one you quoted... Sometimes Jesus makes it sound like a difficult task to get to heaven...
"But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it"... Matthew 7:14
We wouldn't be told to search for this gate if we were already saved...


I thought OSAS was true for a little while but it didn't last... I caught the evil one innocuously leading me to sin under the guise of OSAS...
For me Spiritual Warfare is real... I need to be on sentry all the time with God's armour...
Assuming that im already saved and can live a life of whatever only allows me to drop my guard and get deceived by the evil one...

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Many struggle with whether they are saved or not. It is just one more assurance to those that doubt. Doubt in your salvation can be crippling.

The Bible tells us how we can know we are saved. We know that by if we have a new life that we can see. The Bible doesn't say you can know that you are saved by knowing that you can't lose your salvation. You have to know you're really saved or not for it to matter if you can lose your salvation or not. That's the part we aren't very good at dealing with and so we end up with taking comfort in an argument that may not even apply to us in the first place because we aren't really saved. We put the focus in the wrong place.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

how in the world is anyone to be assured that all these OSAS people aren't the ones who will eventually renounce their faith also?

That's right. That's what makes making sure you're even really saved in the first place the important thing. What good is a theology about whether or not you can lose your salvation if you find out the hard way that you aren't really a true believer anyway to begin with? We need to know if our faith is genuine before we find out the hard way that it is not, and before it is too late to do something about it.

There's absolutely no proof either way, ...don't even try to tell me that it's in their works or fruits. For, none of them have even experienced half of the same testimony as of the fallen in Hebrews 6:4.

The Bible really does tell us that being like Christ in this life gives us assurance that we are saved and do not have to fear the coming judgement.

 

[Taken]

Sure.
Once a man's soul is Saved it is Saved For ever.

Heb 10:
[14] For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Thank you for the warm welcome!
Is your avatar the most current picture of you?

Not the most current

 

[Taken]

But that was the old testament. Not salvation from the cross?

OT men received their souls Salvation - in a Similar Way- via them having less Knowledge- Understanding-

Salvation- basically for any man's soul
Requires-
•Belief in God and His Word
•True Heartful vowed commitment
•a death
•Pure Blood (for forgiveness)
•Quickening (spirit, Rebirth via Gods Seed)

OT men-
Received Gods Word
Wrote and distributed copies
Agreed or Rejected
Killed Pure animals
Pure blood of animals
Repeatedly Forgiven
Saved and Quickened at their Physical Death.

Jesus, arriving ON Earth, FOR men TO SEE...
Giving His Body, His Blood, and Offering ASSURANCE of Salvation and Quickening...
Comforting Knowledge TO a man, Assured Before the man's Physical Death.

Called ...a Comfort for men.
Called...A Surety.
Called...A better Testament.
Called...By His Name

John 14:
[26] But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Heb 7:
[22] By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

OT men did not Know His Name.
OT men did not SEE Him.
OT men did Not Witness His Death.

Well...similar to OT men...I never Saw Him or Witnessed His Death either.

Yet...I Chose To Trust without Seeing.

Your question seems to hang on the balance of Salvation for OT men, Before Jesus' Death.

Study reveals...
Who... the Truth, Word of God, Shinning Star, Light, Power of God, Life, Lamb of God is and What Death is.

Spiritual Death- i.e.- Separation From God, is the ONLY relevant Death in All of Scripture.

Rev 13:
[8] And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

The Foundation OF the World, was Established Before Mankind was Created.

The Lamb was Before the Foundation of The World.

The Lamb was Slain Before the Foundation of The World.

A Physical Death? No a Spiritual Death.

How So?
When the TRUTH exists, and A LIE is Revealed AGAINST the TRUTH, The LIE KILLS The TRUTH.

That is what occurred Before mankind was Created.

Specifically...Revealed:
Isa 14:
[12] How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
[13] For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

Just saying...OT men had the Same opportunity To Receive Salvation, IN a manner that was Taught and Acceptable To God.

Glory to God,
Taken