Kenosis False Teaching

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ChristisGod

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And that does not address the quesition of this thread.

Jesus emptied Himself of His omnipotence, and His omniscience, and so forth. This does not change His divinity.

Much love!
One God, 3 Persons- The Father, Son and Holy Spirit all called God and share the same Divine Attributes as the One God. If any Attribute is missing then One cannot be God.

All called God
The Father- Psalm 89:26, 1 Corinthians 8:6, Galatians 1:1, Colossians 1:3
The Son- 1 Timothy 1:16-17,John 20:28,Titus 2:13, 2 Peter 1:1, 1 John 5:20
The Holy Spirit- Acts 5:3-4, 28:25, cf Isaiah 6:8

All Creator
The Father- Isaiah 44:24, 1 Corinthians 8:6
The Son - Colossians 1:16; John 1:3
The Holy Spirit- Job 33:4, Psalms 104:30, Genesis 1:2

All Eternal
The Father- Psalms 93:2
The Son- Jesus Isaiah 9:6
The Holy Spirit- Hebrews 9:14

All Omniscient
The Father- Psalms 147:5
The Son -Jesus John 2:24-25
The Holy Spirit- Isaiah 40:13-14

All Omnipresent
The Father- Jeremiah 23:24
The Son -Jesus Matthew 18:20
The Holy Spirit- Psalms 139:7-10

All Omnipotent
The Father- Revelation 4:8
The Son- Matthew 28:18, Revelation 5:13
The Holy Spirit- Romans 15:19

hope this helps !!!
 
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101G

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GINOLJC, TO ALL.
You keep on trying and so do I on the issue, the diversified oneness thing. I know I have discussed it with you before, but being honest it still does not really come clear to me.
HERE IS THE CLEAR TRUTH,GOD IS ONE PERSON WHO "SHARED" HIMSELF IN FLESH TO DIE FOR OUR SINS. IT'S JUST THAT SIMPLE.

but let me go at your concerns this way. you tell me what you don't understand about "Diversfied Oneness". and I'll see if i can answer your concerns.... or not.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
 
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amadeus

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GINOLJC, TO ALL.

HERE IS THE CLEAR TRUTH,GOD IS ONE PERSON WHO "SHARED" HIMSELF IN FLESH TO DIE FOR OUR SINS. IT'S JUST THAT SIMPLE.

but let me go at your concerns this way. you tell me what you don't understand about "Diversfied Oneness". and I'll see if i can answer your concerns.... or not.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
Now you have nailed for me very simply with your first sentence in CAPS. It was your long and, for me, complex explanations that often boggled my mind. At times I thought I was agreeing with you but then you would say something else which confused me. I will copy this post of yours and use it as a starting point any time I try to read one of your more lengthy posts. Thanks very much.

During those 11 years with the Oneness Jesus Only people I learned a lot... I have them to thank for getting me started into reading the Bible. I really understood and agreed with the basic Oneness of God. but some of their details, not so much.

No Trinitarian on the other hand has ever come close to providing an explanation as to why I should believe what they say that they do. To expect the average person to understand and then accept without doubt an expressed Trinitarian definition using terms like "hypostatic" is foolishness indeed. The message of Jesus may ultimately be complicated, but really... it is simple to the simple in heart. Does not God see to that? Why insist on something so definite and complicated? But... for many it is seemingly set already in concrete even though most people, even the brainy theologians, could not do much better in beginning to describe it correctly according to "established" definitions without using words that most people do not understand.

Thank you again for your patience and efforts to help me understand your view point, which may not really be different than mine... but my own at times seems too muddy to me for me to be able to make good comparison. Then there is the question as to whether I really need to do so?
 
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marks

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One God, 3 Persons- The Father, Son and Holy Spirit all called God and share the same Divine Attributes as the One God. If any Attribute is missing then One cannot be God.
Yet Jesus emptied Himself, for instance, of His omniscience, so that, as a man, He know what a man would know, and whatever the Holy Spirit revealed to Him, but He did not retain to Himself all knowledge, as there were things He did not know.

I don't understand why, but you seem to be introducing by your "rule" an artificial argument that Jesus would lose His divinity if He emptied Himself of His divine attributes of omniscience and omnipotence and omnipresence. That if there were something Jesus didn't know then He wouldn't be God.

The Scriptures tell us Jesus emptied Himself. The Scriptures tell us there were things Jesus could not do, and things Jesus did not know.

I really don't understand why this is such a difficulty for you.

Much love!
 

ChristisGod

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Yet Jesus emptied Himself, for instance, of His omniscience, so that, as a man, He know what a man would know, and whatever the Holy Spirit revealed to Him, but He did not retain to Himself all knowledge, as there were things He did not know.

I don't understand why, but you seem to be introducing by your "rule" an artificial argument that Jesus would lose His divinity if He emptied Himself of His divine attributes of omniscience and omnipotence and omnipresence. That if there were something Jesus didn't know then He wouldn't be God.

The Scriptures tell us Jesus emptied Himself. The Scriptures tell us there were things Jesus could not do, and things Jesus did not know.

I really don't understand why this is such a difficulty for you.

Much love!
So the Father can "empty" His Omni's and still be God.
So the Holy Spirit can "empty" His Omni's and still be God

keep believing that.............................

The Son cannot "empty" His Omni's and remain God.

Its an oxymoron, a contradiction.

hope this helps !!!
 

marks

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So the Father can "empty" His Omni's and still be God.
So the Holy Spirit can "empty" His Omni's and still be God

keep believing that.............................
You seem to be very allergic to real discussion.

Let's be real clear.

You can try to ridicule, you can try to divert attention, you can respond however you want.

Just the same.

You claim that Jesus was omniscient during His earthly ministry, but this is contrary to the Bible. Jesus Himself said there was something He did not know. You claim that Jesus was omnipotent during His eartly ministry, this also is contrary to the Bible. Jesus Himself said there was something He could not do.

The Bible teaches us that Jesus emptied Himself, and Jesus showed us the practical application of that. He became a servant, and He became dependent.

Here's a question to think about . . . If Jesus hadn't eaten following His fast in Matthew 4, would he have died? Or did He not need food to survive?

The life He lived is the same kind of life He gives to us.

Much love!
 
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ChristisGod

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You seem to be very allergic to real discussion.

Let's be real clear.

You can try to ridicule, you can try to divert attention, you can respond however you want.

Just the same.

You claim that Jesus was omniscient during His earthly ministry, but this is contrary to the Bible. Jesus Himself said there was something He did not know. You claim that Jesus was omnipotent during His eartly ministry, this also is contrary to the Bible. Jesus Himself said there was something He could not do.

The Bible teaches us that Jesus emptied Himself, and Jesus showed us the practical application of that. He became a servant, and He became dependent.

Here's a question to think about . . . If Jesus hadn't eaten following His fast in Matthew 4, would he have died? Or did He not need food to survive?

The life He lived is the same kind of life He gives to us.

Much love!
Hypostatic Union

1. Jesus is a person. (1 Tim 2:5)

2. Jesus, the Person, has two natures- Divine and human (John 1:1, 14, 1 Timothy 3:16): Divine and human. This is the Hypostatic Union.( Col 2:9, Heb 1:3,2:16)

3. The Communicatio Idiomatum (Communication of the Properties) states that the attributes of His Divine nature and human nature are both ascribed to the one Person of Jesus. So Jesus can exhibit attributes of Divinity (Omnipresence, Omniscience, Omnipotence, . John 2:23, 3:13, 8:58, He was prayed to in Acts 7:59, John 14:13, He was is worshiped Matt 2:2:11, Rev 5:13-14) and at the same time exhibit attributes of His humanity( He was tempted, ate, prayed,wept, grew in wisdom and stature,was anointed,was baptized, the Father was greater, didn’t know the day or the hour of His Return, He cried My God my God why has Thou forsaken Me, He died etc.). The communicatio idiomatum does not mean that any part of the Divine nature was communicated to the human nature.


4. The Man(anthropos) Jesus is what we perceive (if we were there 2000 years ago in Israel) and through the Man we encounter the Divine nature (Jesus knowing all things, is on earth while in heaven, answers prayer, forgiving sins, etc.).

5. The Person of Jesus will always be both Divine and human. (John 1:1,14,20:28, 1 John 5:20, 1 Timothy 2:5) Those who deny this fact are the spirit of antichrist. (1 John 4:1-4,2 John 7)

6. The Divine Nature is within the Trinity.(Father, Son and Holy Spirit)

7. Since the Person of Jesus claims the attributes of Divinity(John 3:13,8:58,Matthew 9:2,12:8), then the Person of Jesus is a member of the Trinity.( John 14-16, Math 28:19)

Anything said of either of Christ's two natures applies to the one Person of Christ, so that is how it is said that Christ died on the cross. The term "hypostatic union" refers to the two natures united in the one Person, so anything said of those two natures in the one Person applies to the whole Person. So we see that the Person of Christ is both God and man. The phrase hypostatic union was adopted by the fifth general council at Constantinople, 533 AD. That council declared that the union of two natures is real (against Arius), not a mere indwelling of God in a man (against Nestorius), with a rational soul (against Apollinaris), and that in Christ’s Divine nature remains unchanged (against Eutyches).

hope this helps !!!
 

ChristisGod

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You seem to be very allergic to real discussion.

Let's be real clear.

You can try to ridicule, you can try to divert attention, you can respond however you want.

Just the same.

You claim that Jesus was omniscient during His earthly ministry, but this is contrary to the Bible. Jesus Himself said there was something He did not know. You claim that Jesus was omnipotent during His eartly ministry, this also is contrary to the Bible. Jesus Himself said there was something He could not do.

The Bible teaches us that Jesus emptied Himself, and Jesus showed us the practical application of that. He became a servant, and He became dependent.

Here's a question to think about . . . If Jesus hadn't eaten following His fast in Matthew 4, would he have died? Or did He not need food to survive?

The life He lived is the same kind of life He gives to us.

Much love!
Here lets begin with the syllogisms from the text in Philippians 2.

Just as the term “form of God” in verse six does not mean “less than God” because of the phrase “equality with God" in the prior passage.

It goes to reason in the same way with the 2 phrases in the “form of a servant” and in the “likeness of man” in verse seven do not mean that Jesus was any “less than human,” but instead means He was the same or “equal with all humans.”

That is how the passage reads and how it is to be understood in its " CONTEXT ".

Jesus shed His blood on the cross when all the Fulness of Deity was in Him bodily as the passage plainly SAYS in Colossians 1:20.

Colossians 1:19-20
For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

In Colossians 2:9 the Apostle Paul said, For in HIM (CHRIST) ALL of the “ fullness of deity dwells bodily.”

Did Paul use the word fullness there to mean partially? NO as Jesus did not empty Himself of His Deity. Jesus Divinity is FULL, complete lacking in nothing. The ENTIRE Fullness of Deity dwells(is present) bodily in Jesus. So what was emptied was His privilege's to use those Attributes that were rightly His to use and voluntarily gave up those rights in submission to do the Fathers will. His Glory as God was veiled intentionally. On a few occasions He let His disciples see His Glory. For we beheld His Glory the Glory of the only begotten Son(monogenes).

They caught a glimpse of His Glory and Majesty at the Transfiguration.

2 Peter 1:16-18
For we did not follow cleverly devised stories when we told you about the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ in power, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17 He received honor and glory from God the Father when the voice came to him from the Majestic Glory, saying, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.” 18 We ourselves heard this voice that came from heaven when we were with him on the sacred mountain.

hope this helps !!!
 
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DPMartin

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The term kenosis refers to the doctrine of Christ’s “self-emptying” in His incarnation. The word comes from the Greek of Philippians 2:7, which says that Jesus “emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men” (ESV). The word translated “emptied” is a form of kenoó, from which we get the word kenosis.

Kenoticism, also known as kenotic theology or kenotic Christology, is an unbiblical view of Christ’s nature. Kenoticism teaches that the divinity of the Son of God was somehow lost or lessened when the Lord took on human flesh and entered our world.

The word kenoticism comes from the Greek word kenoó, a form of which is translated “emptied” in some translations of Philippians 2:7. Writing about Christ, Paul says, “Who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied [ekenōsen] Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men” (Philippians 2:6–7, NASB).

Kenotic theology or kenotic Christology, first introduced in the late 1800s by German theologian Gottfried Thomasius (1802—75), is based on the idea that Jesus actually laid aside some of His divinity in order to be more like human beings. Philippians 2:6–7 is used as the proof text for this idea. Jesus “emptied” Himself, according to kenoticism, of His divine attributes.

The biblical truth is that Jesus Christ fully possessed both a divine nature and a human nature, and the two natures co-existed in what is often called the hypostatic union. Kenoticism is an attempt to redefine the nature of Christ. Interestingly, it is only the divine nature of Christ that kenoticism calls into question, not His human nature. Most people can easily accept the reality of Jesus’ humanity. Few would argue with the fact that Jesus was born, lived, and died as a human being. What is harder to accept is that He was born, lived, and died—and rose again—as God incarnate.

If Jesus divested Himself of some of His divine attributes, as some teach, then we have some theological problems. First, emptying Himself of any part of His divinity would render Jesus less than fully divine. If He had temporarily laid aside His omniscience, omnipotence, etc., He would have ceased being the divine Son of God. But God cannot stop being God, even for a moment.

Another significant problem with kenotic Christology involves the eternal destiny of all who follow Christ. No mere human being can fulfill the role of Savior. If Jesus were not the infinite second Person of the triune God, His sacrifice would be insufficient. If Christ were not divine, if He had given up His divinity at any point in time, the efficacy of His sacrifice on the cross would be nullified. To be the Savior, Jesus was at every moment both fully God and fully man.

How, then, do we understand Philippians 2:6–7, which says that the Son of God “emptied” Himself as He took on the form of a servant? In what way did Jesus “empty” Himself? We begin with context. Verses 1—5 describe the attitude believers should adopt, one that “was also in Christ Jesus.” Believers are to exhibit humility and lowliness of mind, having the same self-sacrificial mindset that Jesus had. He didn’t use His equality with God to His own advantage; rather, He took on the form of a servant. Believers are to emulate Christ by becoming humble and obedient. Believers do not put off their human attributes and become something else, any more than Jesus put off His divine attributes. Rather, they look to Jesus as their example and subjugate their impulses and desires for the sake of others.

Christ’s “emptying” of Himself was the laying aside of the privileges of divinity, not divinity itself. In heaven, the Son of God possessed infinite honor and glory and adoration. But He chose to leave that position of honor, and He “made himself nothing” (Philippians 2:7). When He came to earth, He veiled His glory and chose to occupy the position of a slave. The kenosis spoken of in Philippians 2:7 was a self-renunciation but not an emptying of deity. Jesus never ceased to be God, and He did not exchange deity for humanity.

What Jesus did was set aside His heavenly glory. And He voluntarily refrained from using His divinity to make His way easier. His miracles were not done to benefit Himself but to help others. During His earthly ministry, Christ completely submitted Himself to the will of the Father (John 5:19). John Walvoord explains it this way: “The act of kenosis . . . may . . . be properly understood to mean that Christ surrendered no attribute of Deity, but that He did voluntarily restrict their independent use in keeping with His purpose of living among men and their limitations” (Jesus Christ Our Lord, p. 144).

At times, Jesus intentionally veiled His attributes that at other times were fully on display. When He healed the sick, walked on water, fed the 5,000, and raised Lazarus from the dead, Jesus’ divine nature was fully evident. When He allowed Himself to be hungry, thirsty, beaten, abused, and crucified without retaliating, He was intentionally restricting His divine power. He did not give up His power; rather, He chose to subjugate it for a greater good. But at no time during His life was Christ ever without the fullness of divinity (see Colossians 2:9).

Discussions of kenoticism are complicated by the fact that sometimes the term kenosis is used as a synonym for kenoticism. The Bible teaches the kenosis of Christ, but it does not teach that Jesus gave up any divine attributes. Kenosis must be understood within the larger context of the whole of Scripture. And when teachers speak of kenosis, we must be sure to understand how they are using the term. Kenoticism is a heresy that takes the biblical concept of kenosis too far.got?

hope this helps !!!


well that's what spin off translations will do for you, the KJV that has with stood public scrutiny for over 400 years says:


Php 2:6  Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 
Php 2:7  But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 

there's no "emptied" mentioned here is there? nothing implying anything but what is true. and "was made in the likeness of men" is in the context of John's the Word was made flesh, and Jesus Himself referred to the "Son of man" in the third person most of the time.
 

ChristisGod

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well that's what spin off translations will do for you, the KJV that has with stood public scrutiny for over 400 years says:


Php 2:6  Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 
Php 2:7  But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 

there's no "emptied" mentioned here is there? nothing implying anything but what is true. and "was made in the likeness of men" is in the context of John's the Word was made flesh, and Jesus Himself referred to the "Son of man" in the third person most of the time.

Agreed Jesus did not empty anything in the Incarnation but added humanity , the Word became flesh. All the fulness of Deity dwells in Him bodily. Colossians 1:19; 2:9. He is God manifest in the flesh, fully God lacking nothing and fully man lacking nothing.

Hence kenosis (emptying Himself) of Divine Attributes is heretical and a false teaching.

hope this helps !!!
 

Ziggy

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So, In the OT... God was, is, and will be the JUDGE.
When Jesus came, he did not take on the "reputation" of a JUDGE. Even though he could of, that wasn't his mission.
He came to save the sinners.
Jesus said he did not come to JUDGE, but that there is one who will.

Jhn 12:46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
Jhn 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Jhn 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Jesus said, look, I didn't come here to kick your.... to judge you.
I came here to save your.. lives.
If you don't hear me and what I'm saying NOW..
Then later when I come back.. you better be hiding under some rocks and asking them to fall on your stubborn heads.
don't say I didn't warn ya..

:D
 

101G

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Now you have nailed for me very simply with your first sentence in CAPS. It was your long and for me complex explanations that often boggled my mind. At times I thought I was agreeing with you but then you would say something else which confused me. I will copy this post of yours and use it as a starting point any time I try to read one of your more lengthy posts. Thanks very much.

During those 11 years with the Oneness Jesus Only people I learned a lot... I have them to thank for getting me started into reading the Bible. I really understood and agreed with the basic Oneness of God. but some of their details, not so much.

No Trinitarian on the other hand has ever come close to providing an explanation as to why I should believe what they say that they do. To expect the average person to understand and then accept without doubt an expressed Trinitarian definition using terms like "hypostatic" is foolishness indeed. The message of Jesus may ultimately be complicated, but really it is simple to the simple in heart. Does not God see to that? Why insist on something so definite and complicated? But... for many it is seemingly set already in concrete even though most people, even the brainy theologians, could not much better in begin to describe it correctly according to "established" definitions using other than words that most people do not understand.

Thank you again for your patience and efforts to help me understand your view point, which may not really be different than mine... but my own at times seems too muddy to me for me to be able to make good comparison. Then there is the question as to whether I really need to do so?
first thanks for your reply, second, I'm here at your service. the minstry of the Lord Jesus the Christ is a SERVICE to his body.

and I am as you was. I had a "oneness" challenge me when I was a trinitarian and the person made some good points and made me re-think my position, but I found out that the Oneness position was as flawed as the belief I was already in. away I had concerns before and after this encounter. but when confornted with facts, it makes one seek these facts out, IT WAS TIME FOR A CHANGE. so in my studying, afterward, I went to God and asked him in all honesty if he was trinity or not, or was he a single person as the oneness claimed. and to my surprise, he came to me, understand, he did not send an angel, but he himself came to me and answered my question personally.

and the answer I got was neither oneness, nor trinity, as I had asked. he revealed unto me that he is a plurality of his own-self, (HIS EQUAL SHARE OF HIMSELF), and the scriptures bared this out.

with that information, I asked him a third thing. if you're not a trinity, but a plurality of one, (meaning not a oneness), reveal to me what you really are? and in that same sentance I said this, "what you are, give me a name, that describe who, and what you are, (but the same gospel), only with a name that is not used by no one else". (as with the apostle Paul, I didn't want to build on someone else ministry). and he gave me the name, "Diversified Oneness". and when he taught me this, it said the same thing as what the apostle taught, BINGO, "THE SAME GOSPEL". so then I went in serious study, and followed his lead, and my mind was RENEWED in his KNOWLEDGE. and now everything fits in the bible, whereas now, I have no questions or doubts about the word of God. that's why I can comment in long complex explanations, because I know now what I'm speaking of is truth. and yes, it was not easy to understand at first, because we all have been precondition to believe certian things.

but as I have said, it takes "TIME". and I'm in it for the long haul. because I trust the Lord JESUS, in everything he has taught me.

by the way, it's an Intresting journey, the road, that I have taken, and as the apostle Paul said, so do I, "Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before," Philippians 3:13 (kjv). translation for me, I will not allow myself to become stagnant, I will press toward the mark of IMPROVEMENT OF MYSELF IN WALKING WITH MY GOD ..... Christ Jesus.

I'll end it here on that note, because I don't want to go into a lengthy post.... (smile).

take care my friend, remember I'm at your service in anything that I can help you in.... thanks.


PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
 
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marks

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Jesus shed His blood on the cross when all the Fulness of Deity was in Him bodily as the passage plainly SAYS in Colossians 1:20.
Listen to what Jesus said to Peter . . .

Matthew 26
52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.
53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?
54 But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?

Why is it Jesus speaks of asking the Father to send angels? Would not Jesus simply command them? But let's step back another step. Why would Jesus be speaking of having help?

When Jesus comes at the end of age . . . "I have trodden the winepress alone!"

Yes the fullness of the Godhead was in Christ, just the same, He emptied Himself, and we see it in the Gospels, and this assures us that we can likewise live the life of Christ.

It is no longer I that live, but Christ lives in me. As He is, so are we in this world.

Much love!
 

ChristisGod

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Listen to what Jesus said to Peter . . .

Matthew 26
52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.
53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?
54 But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?

Why is it Jesus speaks of asking the Father to send angels? Would not Jesus simply command them? But let's step back another step. Why would Jesus be speaking of having help?

When Jesus comes at the end of age . . . "I have trodden the winepress alone!"

Yes the fullness of the Godhead was in Christ, just the same, He emptied Himself, and we see it in the Gospels, and this assures us that we can likewise live the life of Christ.

It is no longer I that live, but Christ lives in me. As He is, so are we in this world.

Much love!
why do you run away from the verses I quote ? try addressing them with some thought and exegesis.
 

marks

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Did Paul use the word fullness there to mean partially? NO as Jesus did not empty Himself of His Deity. Jesus Divinity is FULL, complete lacking in nothing. The ENTIRE Fullness of Deity dwells(is present) bodily in Jesus. So what was emptied was His privilege's to use those Attributes that were rightly His to use and voluntarily gave up those rights in submission to do the Fathers will. His Glory as God was veiled intentionally.
This part is exactly what I'm saying. So we are agreed up to this point.


On a few occasions He let His disciples see His Glory. For we beheld His Glory the Glory of the only begotten Son(monogenes).

At this point, you seem to be saying two conflicting things. You are saying that Jesus gave up His rights to use His divine attributes, but then you say this above, indicating that Jesus actually retained the use of His divine attributes.

So I return to the question of Jesus' knowledge of when He would return.

Either He did, or He didn't know. You claim He possessed all knowledge, and He claimed He did not know this.

How do you explain this discrepancy?

Much love!
 
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marks

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its self explanatory try reading it
I've read it, and it does not address my points.

It seems to me you are reposting this as a smokescreen. But maybe if you were more specific in what your intent is, in how this would answer my questions I may understand better what you are getting at.

So far I continue to see a contradiction between your statements and the Bible, both as far as the simplicity of the statements themselves, and the implications on our sanctification.

Much love!