Hebrews 10:26-31

[FHII]

Hi folks,

Before I begin, let me say I am about to bore you with commentary. To soothe that, I will put the conclusion first. If you disagree with it, then you can tract through the reasoning.

In conclusion, the "willful sin" spoken of in verse 26 has nothing to do with sins of the flesh. They are directly speaking of losing faith, wavering in faith, not encouraging one another and fellowshipping one another in the name of Jesus, skipping Church and not increasing in faith!

There! Now read my reasoning!

I originally intended to leave this thread alone because the OP didn't focus "willful sin" but rather on "no more sacrifice". However, it reverted into a discussion about willful sin. It is my opinion that almost everyone misses the point about the "willful sin" the author is speaking of.

First off, its not speaking of all willful sin in general. If it were, I strongly argue that this verse is troubling to us all. I mean, what would be an unwillful sin? Committing a sin in our dream state? Accidently picking up someone's cell phone thinking it was ours? Maiming someone on accident? Sure... I get that. But how many sins do we commit that we know are sins? Probably the majority of them.

But let me point out some things about this verse. First, it starts off with, "For if..." Here, "for" means "because".

So, verse 26 reads, "For [because] if we sin willfully, there remains no more sacrifice for sin.."

Well the context then says this verse is dependant on a previous statement. In other words, verse 26 is talking about one specific "willful sin". If you want to apply it to all willful sin, that's fine (i disagree, but we can take that up another time), but the context of the verse certainly says there is something in specific that the author has in mind.

That brings me to my next point: verse 25. It tells us what exactly the author is concerned with. That verse is:

Hebrews 10:25 KJV
Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is ; but exhorting one another : and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

So, the willful sin spoken of is forsaking the assembling and lack of exhorting one another.

In other words, at least in this point in my argument, its talking about skipping Church Services! Yes, I know that it could mean visiting the breathren in private homes... I agree. But a Church service with a pastor, bishop, evangelist, apostle, etc. is also an assembly. And we aren't supposed to forsake it.

Now, this verse (speaking of verse 25) goes deeper. After all, the verse is actually in mid sentence. The whole sentence is verses 23-25.

Here is the whole sentence:

Hebrews 10:23-25 KJV
"Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised) And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is ; but exhorting one another : and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching."

Verse 25 begins after a colin. Thus verse 25 is an explanation of verse 23 and 24. In this case, its done by pointing out what NOT to do. In other words, we are to hold fast to our faith and encourage each other INSTEAD OF forsaking each other in the form of meeting in physical body (like some do) AND we are to increase our efforts in doing so.

Again, I want to point out that in verse 26 its says "For if" which means "because if..". Thus not doing this is the willful sin the author is concerned with. If you want to apply it to all "willful sin, that's fine, but again I disagree... But the proper context is that the author is talking about one specific sin.

So let me put these verses together in a proper paragraph. Read them and determine if the overall idea changes:

Hebrews 10:23-29 KJV

"Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised) And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is ; but exhorting one another : and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?"

 

[mjrhealth]

So, the willful sin spoken of is forsaking the assembling and lack of exhorting one another.

I do doubt that, that would make Moses, even Jesus, willful sinners for wandering off into that desert to grow in God.

 

[FHII]

I do doubt that, that would make Moses, even Jesus, willful sinners for wandering off into that desert to grow in God.

then why does Hebrews 10:25 say it?

Next, jesus WAS God in the flesh. Moses WAS as a god to the Hebrews (I got a verse for that!). So the assembling never began until they showed up. They didn't forake the assembling; they were the ones who initiated it!

 

[mjrhealth]

then why does Hebrews 10:25 say it?

Next, jesus WAS God in the flesh. Moses WAS as a god to the Hebrews (I got a verse for that!). So the assembling never began until they showed up. They didn't forake the assembling; they were the ones who initiated it!

Just like Israel in egypt, than God called them out. " Come out of her My People", You wouldnt even know who you where assembling with, the wheat and the tares the sheep and the goats, ps religious men wrote that. You know they where Jews became christians, still had all that religion in them, they never had "churches" they met where they could, these days we use skype, we are supposed to be spiritual not carnal,

Act 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
Act 7:49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?
Act 7:50 Hath not my hand made all these things?
Act 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

You wont find God there , only takes 2 people, not a hierarchy.

 

[justbyfaith]

BB's heretical 'abounding grace' theology

Would you please expound further on why BB's abounding grace theology is wrong in light of Romans 5:20?

You either believe what Jesus did or you don't, you either believe He has and will save you or your don't, What you see and what he sees are two different things,

_1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

You are not saved if you do not believe in the Deity of our Lord Jesus Christ (John 8:24). That is the bottom line.

 

[FHII]

Just like Israel in egypt, than God called them out. " Come out of her My People", You wouldnt even know who you where assembling with, the wheat and the tares the sheep and the goats, ps religious men wrote that. You know they where Jews became christians, still had all that religion in them, they never had "churches" they met where they could, these days we use skype, we are supposed to be spiritual not carnal,

Act 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
Act 7:49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?
Act 7:50 Hath not my hand made all these things?
Act 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

You wont find God there , only takes 2 people, not a hierarchy.

Yet, we still have Hebrews10:25. It STILL says not to forsake the assembling of ourselves. The verse you are referring to says where 2 or 3 are dwelling TOGETHER in my name, there am I in the midst. And by the way, when he said that, there were more than 2 or three there and he (Jesus) was still there.

You cannot use scripture to cancel out scripture...

 

[Tong2020]

Hi folks,

Before I begin, let me say I am about to bore you with commentary. To soothe that, I will put the conclusion first. If you disagree with it, then you can tract through the reasoning.

In conclusion, the "willful sin" spoken of in verse 26 has nothing to do with sins of the flesh. They are directly speaking of losing faith, wavering in faith, not encouraging one another and fellowshipping one another in the name of Jesus, skipping Church and not increasing in faith!

There! Now read my reasoning!

I originally intended to leave this thread alone because the OP didn't focus "willful sin" but rather on "no more sacrifice". However, it reverted into a discussion about willful sin. It is my opinion that almost everyone misses the point about the "willful sin" the author is speaking of.

First off, its not speaking of all willful sin in general. If it were, I strongly argue that this verse is troubling to us all. I mean, what would be an unwillful sin? Committing a sin in our dream state? Accidently picking up someone's cell phone thinking it was ours? Maiming someone on accident? Sure... I get that. But how many sins do we commit that we know are sins? Probably the majority of them.

But let me point out some things about this verse. First, it starts off with, "For if..." Here, "for" means "because".

So, verse 26 reads, "For [because] if we sin willfully, there remains no more sacrifice for sin.."

Well the context then says this verse is dependant on a previous statement. In other words, verse 26 is talking about one specific "willful sin". If you want to apply it to all willful sin, that's fine (i disagree, but we can take that up another time), but the context of the verse certainly says there is something in specific that the author has in mind.

That brings me to my next point: verse 25. It tells us what exactly the author is concerned with. That verse is:

Hebrews 10:25 KJV
Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is ; but exhorting one another : and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

So, the willful sin spoken of is forsaking the assembling and lack of exhorting one another.

In other words, at least in this point in my argument, its talking about skipping Church Services! Yes, I know that it could mean visiting the breathren in private homes... I agree. But a Church service with a pastor, bishop, evangelist, apostle, etc. is also an assembly. And we aren't supposed to forsake it.

Now, this verse (speaking of verse 25) goes deeper. After all, the verse is actually in mid sentence. The whole sentence is verses 23-25.

Here is the whole sentence:

Hebrews 10:23-25 KJV
"Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised) And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is ; but exhorting one another : and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching."

Verse 25 begins after a colin. Thus verse 25 is an explanation of verse 23 and 24. In this case, its done by pointing out what NOT to do. In other words, we are to hold fast to our faith and encourage each other INSTEAD OF forsaking each other in the form of meeting in physical body (like some do) AND we are to increase our efforts in doing so.

Again, I want to point out that in verse 26 its says "For if" which means "because if..". Thus not doing this is the willful sin the author is concerned with. If you want to apply it to all "willful sin, that's fine, but again I disagree... But the proper context is that the author is talking about one specific sin.

So let me put these verses together in a proper paragraph. Read them and determine if the overall idea changes:

Hebrews 10:23-29 KJV

"Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised) And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is ; but exhorting one another : and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?"

First, let me start by saying I disagree with what it is you say is the sin in verse 26.

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? (NKJV)

Such an interpretation to the passage above, would make one who willfully forsake the assembling and lacking in exhorting another, as being certain of judgment and punishment much worse even than death without mercy.

It also makes said sin to have to do with what the last part of verse 26. How do you make sense of the matter of willfully committing said sin with the part saying “there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins”?

Tong
R1403

 

[mjrhealth]

Yet, we still have Hebrews10:25. It STILL says not to forsake the assembling of ourselves. The verse you are referring to says where 2 or 3 are dwelling TOGETHER in my name, there am I in the midst. And by the way, when he said that, there were more than 2 or three there and he (Jesus) was still there.

You cannot use scripture to cancel out scripture...

1Co_6:15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.

if thats what you want go for it.

and by the way, why do you think there are so many arguement on this board.

 

[mjrhealth]

Would you please expound further on why BB's abounding grace theology is wrong in light of Romans 5:20?



You are not saved if you do not believe in the Deity of our Lord Jesus Christ (John 8:24). That is the bottom line.

Thats your bottom line Not His adding to salvation, but go right ahead turn people away from Him if you must

 

[FHII]

First, let me start by saying I disagree with what it is you say is the sin in verse 26.

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? (NKJV)

Such an interpretation to the passage above, would make one who willfully forsake the assembling and lacking in exhorting another, as being certain of judgment and punishment much worse even than death without mercy.

It also makes said sin to have to do with what the last part of verse 26. How do you make sense of the matter of willfully committing said sin with the part saying “there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins”?

Tong
R1403

Did you read my whole post? While yes, it does apply to verse 25, I noted it goes deeper than that. It includes everything mentioned in verses 23 through 25. That doesn't mean verse 25 isn't there and it doesn't imply: the verse is still there and the topic of discussion didn't change.

 

[FHII]

1Co_6:15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.

if thats what you want go for it.

and by the way, why do you think there are so many arguement on this board.

echange.even after reading 1 Cor 6:15, Hebrews 10:25 is still there. 1 Cor 6:15 didn't erase it.

By the way, since you want to bring up 1 Corinthians, have a look at chapter 11 where Paul discusses behavior for when they are IN CHURCH (as in, assembled together).

 

[Tong2020]

Did you read my whole post? While yes, it does apply to verse 25, I noted it goes deeper than that. It includes everything mentioned in verses 23 through 25. That doesn't mean verse 25 isn't there and it doesn't imply: the verse is still there and the topic of discussion didn't change.

Yes I did not only read the whole of your post but had a good thought about it.

So, perhaps you can kindly address now what I posted to you in reply. Thanks.

Tong
R1404

 

[justbyfaith]

That's your bottom line Not His adding to salvation, but go right ahead turn people away from Him if you must

Trying to turn you towards Him.

I will also be praying for you that He gives you a revelation of who He is as God in order that you might be saved (and not die in your sins, John 8:24).

 

[Tong2020]

The Old Testament sacrifices were not for all time. The one sacrifice Jesus made was for all time, there can be no more sacrifices.
.

Yes. No more sacrifices, not Jesus dying again, nor sacrifices under the Law.

Tong
R1405

 

[FHII]

Yes I did not only read the whole of your post but had a good thought about it.

So, perhaps you can kindly address now what I posted to you in reply. Thanks.

Tong
R1404

I did. My answer still stands. The verses say what they say. We are to hold fast, not waver, provok and exhort one another and assemble. The verses say what they say. Unless I misquoted them, your argument isn't with me but with the scripture. Now if I did misquote them, please let me know at what point.

 

[Tong2020]

I did. My answer still stands. The verses say what they say. We are to hold fast, not waver, provok and exhort one another and assemble. The verses say what they say. Unless I misquoted them, your argument isn't with me but with the scripture. Now if I did misquote them, please let me know at what point.

No sir. My argument is with you. It is not scriptures who said that the sin in verse 26 is what you say it is. That’s your interpretation. And I have argued against your interpretation by showing you what makes of the sin you say to be in the light of verses 27,28,29 and how it affects the very sense of what is said in verse 26.

In addition, it is the matter of willfully sinning, the intentional act of offending God that is conveyed in the part of verse 26 which goes “ For if we sin willfully....”. Having said that, making it to convey some sin when it does not is not sound interpretation, if not, adding to it.

Tong
R1406

 

[mjrhealth]

Trying to turn you towards Him.

I will also be praying for you that He gives you a revelation of who He is as God in order that you might be saved (and not die in your sins, John 8:24).

Give me revalation of God, oh wow your really have some issues. That you should ask for yourself. You need it. But any prayer for Him to show me more of Himself than He already has wont hurt, though Christ is far better than any man at that. If it makes you feel like you are doing something and tickles your flesh go right ahead.

 

[mjrhealth]

echange.even after reading 1 Cor 6:15, Hebrews 10:25 is still there. 1 Cor 6:15 didn't erase it.

By the way, since you want to bring up 1 Corinthians, have a look at chapter 11 where Paul discusses behavior for when they are IN CHURCH (as in, assembled together).

Are we talking "church" or gathering,

 

[Tong2020]

The blood of bulls and goats never had the power to take away sins (Hebrews 10:4).

May I ask, what is your take of the phrase “take away” or the Greek word “aphaireó”?

Yet, it is said that, as the result of there being no more sacrifice for sins, there is only a fearful expectation of judgment and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.

It is not quite clear to me here what it is you refer to that leads to the result you are saying. Please clarify what created the result of there being no more sacrifice for sin? Are you referring to the first part of verse 26 “if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth”?

Well, there was always a fearful expectation of judgment and fiery indignation for all those who were trusting in the blood of goats and calves to save them.

Yes, that could well be said.

But before Christ, the laws on the sacrifice for sin was given to the covenant people that was for the forgiveness of their sin. And at each of those laws, it says “the sin which he has committed shall be forgiven him.”

Do you believe that any one under the law, who seek and keep those commandments by faith have this fearful expectation of judgment and fiery indignation?

But if one is redeemed through the precious blood of Christ, there is no expectation of wrath and fiery indignation.

Therefore it is speaking of the blood of Christ, as being the sacrifice that, if it no longer avails for you, there is only an expectation of wrath and fiery indignation.

While I agree on what you say in the first paragraph, it does not make the conclusion you have on the last paragraph.

Tong
R1408

 

[Tong2020]

To sin willfully means to sin with intention; it does not only refer to rejection of Jesus as Saviour and Lord.

While to sin willfully is a rejection of the blood sacrifice that Jesus provided for us.

<<<To sin willfully means to sin with intention; it does not only refer to rejection of Jesus as Saviour and Lord.>>>

I agree on the first part. It is the matter of willfully sinning, the intentional act of offending God that is conveyed in that part of verse 26. Having said that, in my view, making it convey some sin instead of what it actually conveys is not sound interpretation, if not, is adding to it.

<<<While to sin willfully is a rejection of the blood sacrifice that Jesus provided for us.>>>

While the rejection of the blood sacrifice of Jesus for sin is sin, I don’t think I could quite agree with your statement.

@Nancy I just thought you might be interested.

Tong
R1410