Hebrews 10:26-31

[justbyfaith]

You've been doing the same to me.

I have accused you? If I have then I apologize; but where and when did I accuse you (please use the quote feature)?

Um, aren't you rather using this OT covenant passage to define the terms of the NT? That's how it seems to me.

Yes, that is what I am doing.

It should be clear that the OT is profitable for doctrine (2 Timothy 3:16)

Question . . . should a repeat child molester be in charge of children's day care once he's released from prison? Under any circumstances?

If that child molester were redeemed and gone to heaven, then that tendency to sin in that manner is gone. He can faithfully be in charge of children's day care in heaven; and such a thing would be a glory to the Lord; a testimony to the work of grace in that person's heart.

As concerning lesser sins, the person does not have to go to heaven in order to be restored.

Look at the word. There's your answer. Metanoia = aftermind = result of having exchanged the mind = ceasing from the mind of the flesh, and having the mind of Christ.

This a much different thing than someone stopping committing a sin.

Much love!

So, just to be accurate, you are teaching that repentance (away from sin) is not necessary for salvation.

What is your take on Matthew 7:23, Matthew 25:41, and Matthew 13:41-42?

Not to my reading.

Repentance is not the gospel that the apostles preached. It is what the apostles tells people to do.

What did Jesus preach in Matthew 7:23, Matthew 25:41, and Matthew 13:41-42?

It seems to me that if you don't repent of being a worker of iniquity, you will be cast into the furnace of fire. Because every man is born dead in trespasses and sins.

Do you consider that as good news (gospel)?

Tong
R1601

I wasn't talking to you.

In the NT, using metanoia, it's a word speaking of not changing one's mind, but exchanging it. Rather then the "stop doing this and start doing that" of the OT, it's more, trade in your old mind for a new mind, and now we have new minds.

That actually makes my point. By your estimation, in the NT, repentance has to do with what the Lord said in Ezekiel 36:25-27. If you read that passage, you will see what it is that entails NT repentance; exactly what I have been saying.

The fact is "your works" don't matter, not one bit, your works add not one dot to your salvation. Jesus came to do His fathers will not His own,

The works that I do are the works my father gave me to do.

You know how many "Christians" <fify> run around dong works and are completely outside the will of God, you know that bit , we did this and e did that in your name, and He says depart from you workers of iniquity..

Actually, they may have been doing works completely inside the will of the Lord; but they go to hell because they were practicing iniquity on the side.

The only “ act” that will lead to death is to reject the Gospel Of God’s Grace.....( 1Cor15:1-4 )

That is clearly a false statement.

See Matthew 7:23, Matthew 25:41, and Matthew 13:41-42.

We have only to read Paul’s exalted description of the Ten-Commandment law to recognize that those eternal principles were never blotted out or nailed to the cross.

They are indeed abolished (Ephesians 2:15-16) and nailed to the Cross (Colossians 2:14); just as concerning condemnation; not as concerning the fact that the law remains as a governor in our hearts through the Holy Ghost shedding abroad His love in our hearts (which fulfills the law).

 

[BarneyFife]

If you think “ Living for God” is the “WAY” to be Saved, you are still Lost....unless you define “ Living for God” as Trusting in His Gospel ALONE and RESTING on the Finished Work Of Jesus on the Cross to save you ....”

How can someone be saved by the Gospel ALONE AND something else like "resting on the finished work of Jesus...?"

 

[justbyfaith]

If you think “ Living for God” is the “WAY” to be Saved, you are still Lost...

Living for God is the result of salvation.

Repenting Of all of your Sins before you die , lest you be Damned” is a False, Perverted Addition to the Gospel Of Jesus Christ...

So, if you don't repent of (turn away from) your sins, you can be saved?

What do you make of Matthew 7:23, Matthew 25:41, and Matthew 13:41-42?

 

[BarneyFife]

If you think “ Living for God” is the “WAY” to be Saved, you are still Lost.

From the forum rules page:

"Do not state or imply that another member or group of members who have identified themselves as Christian are not Christians."

 

[justbyfaith]

From the forum rules page:

"Do not state or imply that another member or group of members who have identified themselves as Christian are not Christians."

I don't think that he has broken that rule.

He is merely calling out a certain attitude and saying that it is the attitude of those who are still lost.

Also, a person can be a "Christian" and be lost to the bone.

 

[marks]

]It's interesting how purposely living for God is considered a works gospel by the church these days.

If you think “ Living for God” is the “WAY” to be Saved, you are still Lost....unless you define “ Living for God” as Trusting in His Gospel ALONE and RESTING on the Finished Work Of Jesus on the Cross to save you ....” Repenting Of all of your Sins before you die , lest you be Damned” is a False, Perverted Addition to the Gospel Of Jesus Christ....despite the fact that it sounds” Holy” and despite how much it “ tickles your ears” to hear it.....

If you “ Live for God” because you “ ARE” Saved.....go to the Head Of the Class.....

So, my Worthy Foe.....which way do you believe?[/QUOTE]
Reminds me of . . .

Colossians 2:23 NLT "These rules may seem wise because they require strong devotion, pious self-denial, and severe bodily discipline. But they provide no help in conquering a person’s evil desires."

Much love!

 

[marks]

not as concerning the fact that the law remains as a governor in our hearts

Romans 7:6 "But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter."

Much love!

 

[marks]

It should be clear that the OT is profitable for doctrine (2 Timothy 3:16)

2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Much love!

 

[marks]

So, just to be accurate, you are teaching that repentance (away from sin) is not necessary for salvation.

Again . . .

marks said: ↑

Look at the word. There's your answer. Metanoia = aftermind = result of having exchanged the mind = ceasing from the mind of the flesh, and having the mind of Christ.

This a much different thing than someone stopping committing a sin.

Much love!

Stopping a sin is modifying behavior. Being born again is becoming a new creation, with a new mind.

Are you honestly thinking that I'm saying this does not involve a repudiation of our sinful flesh? Honestly?

Much love!

 

[marks]

That actually makes my point. By your estimation, in the NT, repentance has to do with what the Lord said in Ezekiel 36:25-27. If you read that passage, you will see what it is that entails NT repentance; exactly what I have been saying.

By my estimation?? Has to do with? Not very specific there. Again, trying to define the terms of the New Covenant according to terms of the old.

Metanoia is to have a new mind, having exchanged the old mind. This is not about behavior. This is not about turning us into "law keepers". That covenant is with Israel.

By my estimation. I don't think so.

Things that make you go Hmmmmm.

Much love!

 

[justbyfaith]

Romans 7:6 "But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter."

Much love!

Amen; see also Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16; Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4; 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 13:8-10; Romans 5:5.

2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Much love!

So, in your estimation, rightly dividing the word of truth means discounting the Old Testament?

My Bible (in the New Testament) tells me that the Old Testament is profitable for doctrine (2 Timothy 3:16)

Are you honestly thinking that I'm saying this does not involve a repudiation of our sinful flesh? Honestly?

The question is what is everyone teaching here that is even remotely appearing to be on your side of the argument.

It would seem that @Blood Bought 1953 believes that repentance is not necessary; nevertheless in Matthew 7:23, Matthew 25:41, and Matthew 13:41-42, it seems to me that those who continue to work iniquity will be cast into the furnace of fire; where there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Not something I would want to take chances about.

Metanoia is to have a new mind, having exchanged the old mind. This is not about behavior. This is not about turning us into "law keepers".

Exchanging the mind or heart is exactly what was prophesied would happen in the New Testament by Ezekiel in Ezekiel 36:25-27...

Eze 36:25, Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
Eze 36:26, A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27, And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

We do become law-abiding citizens of the kingdom of heaven when we begin to bear the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23); for there is no law that will condemn our behaviour as we bear the virtue that accompanies that fruit.

 

[marks]

Ezekiel 36:24-28
24) For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
25) Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26) A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27) And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
28) And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

Is this passage given by God with the intent to define New Covenant gentile believers?

There is the opening address, This is to ones who were to be regathered into their own land. God certainly cleanses us and gives a His Spirit, which makes us new people, with a new heart.

In these, the Spirit will cause them to walk in all of the Law. Is that what is happening with us? Are there any of us who actually do keep the entire Law?

I don't see wiggle room in this passage. If that's your assertion, that this defines NT Christianity, is this what you mean? That as the Spirit causes them to keep the Law, so it is with all who are baptized into Christ?

Personally, I look at places like,

Romans 7:6
But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

and so many more that tell me the life in the Spirit is so far beyond the Law in scope that it, the Law, barely scratches the surface, and the reality is, there is no list of rules that even approximates what it means that Christ live in me. And that to try to impose the Law as a comparative standard is to try to impose a relationship with the Law over a relationship with Christ.

This is expressed here,

1 Timothy 1:9
9) Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

The Law is targeted towards certain people, the lawless.

The time will come when all of Israel will be saved, regathered into their land, filled with the Spirit, in a new covenant which will fulfill all the terms of the Mosaic Covenant. And so Israel will receive all of the blessings of that covenant. A covenant that was made between God and Israel, fulfilled on Israel's behalf (the Law) and satisfying everyone's requirement - death - so we receive eternal life, all of us in Christ, and Israel, still the chosen nation, receives the blessings of her covenant with God. A covenant between God and Israel.

Much love!

 

[marks]

So, in your estimation, rightly dividing the word of truth means discounting the Old Testament?

I'm surprised we are at this level of question.

Again, I have to wonder whether this is an honest question. In all the interaction we've had . . . you are thinking I "discount the Old Testament"? That's really what you are wondering?

And this is also turning into a long running string of ad hominems. You don't answer the content, but you say things like this.

More that make me go Hmmmmm. Maybe something for you to think about too?

Much love!

 

[justbyfaith]

In these, the Spirit will cause them to walk in all of the Law. Is that what is happening with us?

It is to a certain extent.

God gives us a righteousness apart from the law that is nevertheless attested to by the law and the prophets that it is righteousness indeed (Romans 3:21).

Because we do not obtain this righteousness through the venue of attempting to obey a set of do's and don'ts.

We obtain it by faith; through which we have the Spirit (Galatians 3:14); and by the Spirit we bear the fruit of the Spirit; against which there is no law (Galatians 5:22-23).

What this means is that we become law-abiding citizens of the kingdom of heaven by virtue of the fact that we bear the fruit of the Spirit.

As it is written,

Rom 8:4, That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

As believers, we are subject in our minds to the law of the Lord.

Rom 8:7, Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Pro 28:9, He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.

That as the Spirit causes them to keep the Law, so it is with all who are baptized into Christ?

See above.

Also, the fact that we are baptized into Christ means that we are no longer slaves to sin according to Romans chapter 6. You are aware that sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4).

So if we are not slaves to sin any longer, but are slaves to righteousness...does that not mean that we have become law-abiding citizens of the kingdom?

Again, I have to wonder whether this is an honest question. In all the interaction we've had . . . you are thinking I "discount the Old Testament"? That's really what you are wondering?

Yes that is what I am wondering. Your answer? Because it seems to me like you are evading answering.

 

[justbyfaith]

Also, please note, @marks, that we have not really interacted with each other for some time; and that therefore I may not remember any of your posts wherein you may have exalted the Old Testament as being holy scripture that we are to abide by.

 

[justbyfaith]

Again, trying to define the terms of the New Covenant according to terms of the old.

Again, the Old Testament is profitable for doctrine (2 Timothy 3:16).

The same Holy Ghost inspired both the Old and New Testaments to be written; He is the author.

1Co 2:13, Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

I am reading it that way.
Keeping Jesus' commandments is how you can tell if you love Jesus in a salvation experience. Why is this simple truth so hard for you to accept? How do you get a works gospel out of that?????

That is NOT a “ Works Gospel”

Your “ Works Gospel is your “ Lucky Repentance “ Perverted Gospel,that you share with justbyfaithplusluckyrepentance ....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

From the forum rules page:

"Do not state or imply that another member or group of members who have identified themselves as Christian are not Christians."

Duly noted....my apologies....

Not so much for this present example .....most of the time when I say” You” , I mean it to be Generic .....the apology is mainly for other stuff I have said in the past....
I believe the “ Lucky Repenters” are probably Saved...they are just “ Fallen from Grace” ....BUT.....a lot of really great Bible Teachers say that without a doubt it means “ Damnation”...... so there ya go.....

 

[mjrhealth]

The same Holy Ghost inspired both the Old and New Testaments to be written; He is the author.

Glad He never signed His name to it, because legally you will have no leg to stand on whee you realize how foolish and arrogant that is, and you will have no one to blame but yourself, God and the Holy spirit get blamed for so much of mans ignorance.

Eph_4:18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Your “ Works Gospel is your “ Lucky Repentance “ Perverted Gospel

I do not have a lucky repentance gospel. God decides if the unbelieving willful sinner is allowed to come back to repentance. There's nothing lucky about it.