nonsense it does not say born of water and born again of the spirit?
But born again BY water AND the spirit
See Mk 16:16
Acts 22:16 eph 4:5
Only baptism by immersion?
- Thread starter theefaith
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
nonsense it does not say born of water and born again of the spirit?
But born again BY water AND the spirit
See Mk 16:16
Acts 22:16 eph 4:5
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
To automatically read "baptism" into John 3:5 simply because it mentions "water" is unwarranted. There are those who would argue that the natural sense of the passage parallels "water" with being born out of a mother’s womb (verse 4) and with "flesh" (verse 6). The first is a physical, literal, "flesh" birth (which is, of course, accompanied by amniotic "water") and the second is Spirit.
There are also those who would argue that Jesus mentions "living water" in John 4:10, 14; 7:37-39 and in John 7:38-39, we read - "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. But this He spoke concerning the Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the source of living water and spiritual cleansing. If "water" is arbitrarily defined as baptism, then we could just as justifiably say, "Out of his heart will flow rivers of living baptism" in John 7:38. If that sounds ridiculous, it is no more so than the idea that water baptism is the source or the means of becoming born again.
Yet there are still others who would argue that "water" is used in the Bible as an emblem of the word of God, and in such uses it is associated with cleansing or washing. (John 15:3; Ephesians 5:26) When we are born again, the Holy Spirit begets new life, divine life, so that we are said to become "partakers of the divine nature" (2 Peter 1:4). The new birth is brought to pass through "incorruptible seed, by the word of God, which lives and abides forever" (I Peter 1:23) and the Holy Spirit accomplishes the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit. (Titus 3:5)
Context of Jn 3:5 “born again”
John1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; (John prepared the way by baptism)
John 2:6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. (Old covenant prefiguring of baptism, purification from sin)(His disciples believed because the ever Virgin mother of God interceded Jn 2:11)
John3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Baptism)
John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.(Baptism)
John 4:4 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John.
Born again means Baptismal regeneration!
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
Baptismal regeneration is a heretical doctrine. Just because water baptism is mentioned in those versus (which are not the immediate context) does not mean that “water” in John 3:5 is water baptism, as I already thoroughly explained to you in post #42.
By the time you get to verse 22 in John chapter 3, Jesus has already finished his conversation with Nicodemus and Jesus as his disciples have moved on to the land of Judaea. You may want to meditate on John 3:15-18 which does not support baptismal regeneration.
It is God who judges hearts as I made very clear. But those who wish to be obedient to the Word are baptized by immersion, since that is where its significance is shown. The Greek word "baptizo" literally means immersion, or to dip, sink, or submerge.
April_Rose
Well-Known Member
Okay now this comment has made me angry and I find it highly offensive and a load of bull!!!
then why did they immediately go the river? And what did they do there, preach FaCaGa? Accept Christ as your personal lord and savior?
There is no personal savior Jude 1:3
Salvation is only in the church the body who believe and are baptized
You can get as angry as you want, but the truth remains the truth.Okay now this comment has made me angry and I find it highly offensive and a load of bull!!!
FACAGA?
Faith alone:
Christ alone:
Grace alone:
Three things are eternal (and therefore inseparable) faith, hope, & charity, and the greatest of these is charity! 1 cor 13
And never “faith alone”!
Rev. 2 I know thy works! I thought faith alone is all that mattered?
Heb 10:36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
Heb 12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
How can salvation be by faith alone in Christ alone thru grace alone?
Faith alone?
1 cor 13:2 and 13:13, Phil 1:29, James 2:24 Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 Titus 3:5 oppose faith alone!
Christ alone?
John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Romans 4:24
But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
Not Christ alone must also believe on the Father who sent Christ!
Grace alone? Mk 16:16 faith and baptism!
Jn 3:5 water and the spirit! Ez 36:25-27
Not grace alone but, grace thru baptism of water and the spirit, and a new heart full of love of God!
Matt 5:7 mercy thru merciful
Lk 7:47 forgiven by love
1 pet 4:8 charity covers sins
Jn 20:21-23 sins forgiven
Acts 22:15 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Jn 3:5 born again refers to baptismal regeneration
Context of Jn 3:5 “born again”
John1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; (John prepared the way by baptism)
John 2:6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. (Old covenant prefiguring of baptism, purification from sin)(His disciples believed because the ever Virgin mother of God interceded Jn 2:11)
John3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Baptism)
John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.(Baptism)
John 4:4 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John.
Born again means Baptismal regeneration!
Faith alone:
Christ alone:
Grace alone:
Three things are eternal (and therefore inseparable) faith, hope, & charity, and the greatest of these is charity! 1 cor 13
And never “faith alone”!
Rev. 2 I know thy works! I thought faith alone is all that mattered?
Heb 10:36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
Heb 12:4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
How can salvation be by faith alone in Christ alone thru grace alone?
Faith alone?
1 cor 13:2 and 13:13, Phil 1:29, James 2:24 Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 Titus 3:5 oppose faith alone!
Christ alone?
John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Romans 4:24
But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
Not Christ alone must also believe on the Father who sent Christ!
Grace alone? Mk 16:16 faith and baptism!
Jn 3:5 water and the spirit! Ez 36:25-27
Not grace alone but, grace thru baptism of water and the spirit, and a new heart full of love of God!
Matt 5:7 mercy thru merciful
Lk 7:47 forgiven by love
1 pet 4:8 charity covers sins
Jn 20:21-23 sins forgiven
Acts 22:15 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
Jn 3:5 born again refers to baptismal regeneration
Context of Jn 3:5 “born again”
John1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; (John prepared the way by baptism)
John 2:6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. (Old covenant prefiguring of baptism, purification from sin)(His disciples believed because the ever Virgin mother of God interceded Jn 2:11)
John3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (Baptism)
John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. 23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.(Baptism)
John 4:4 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John.
Born again means Baptismal regeneration!
April_Rose
Well-Known Member
No it isn't baptism itself is in obedience to God and before I start cussing you out for your highly offensive comments and views,.. you're going on ignore.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
If your talking about it making him righteous no, Jesus was righteous before and after he was baptizedSo then looks like number two is the true answer here.
I would answer non of the above
he was baptized to reveal who he was, and so that those who witnessed his baptism could be a witness of the event which took place
April_Rose
Well-Known Member
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Water is not baptism, that is a false accusation
jesus told nicodemus how to be born again
John 3: 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God
No mention of baptism anywhere
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
John 3:16, Eph 2 8: 9, Eph 1: 13-14, acts 2:21, rom 10: 9-13 etc etc
believe then Mk 16:16 he who believes and is baptized shall be saved
Or believe those who have authority to teach the truth
Teaching authority of the Apostles and their successors in the church founded in the one true founded by Jesus Christ!
Jesus Christ is the head of the church, (eph 5:23) the body of Christ,
(col 1:18) the new and eternal covenant, (pre-figured Jer 31:31) (Heb 8:8) new covenant replaces the Mosaic covenant, (Heb 8:13) Christ replaces David as king, (Lk 1:32-33) Jesus Christ is the only mediator between God and men, (1 Tim 2:5 & Heb 12:24) but a mediator remains on earth mediating between God and His people, but Christ ascended to heaven, (acts 1) before He did He founded His church, on Peter, and the apostles, and their successors!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 2:42 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20
We must be taught by Peter, the apostles, and their successors! Lk 10:16 Matt 28:19 Jn 21:17
Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Lk 1:4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.
Acts 8:30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
Col 2:7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,
Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.
St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised holy Spirit.” Understand this in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacrament of baptism. We are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king.
St. AUGUSTINE
“There are three ways in which sins are forgiven: in baptism, in prayer, and in the greater humility of penance; yet God does not forgive sins except to the baptized” (Sermons to Catechumens on the Creed 7:15 [A.D. 395]).
faith alone salvation?
Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
1 cor 13:2 all faith without charity avails nothing
not called to faith alone Phil 1:29
And James
faith yes!
Faith and baptism yes! Mk 16:16
faith alone, accept Christ as your personal lord and savior no! Jude 1:3
Common salvation in the church by baptism and the sacraments
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Show me the word baptism in John 3 or you have no case.
nothing in mark 16 signifies it is water,
Similar threads
